BruceVC

Nope, sorry your word isn't good enough Very well, I am sure to toss and turn with worry tonight that such an individual as yourself does not believe me, ha. Its nothing personal Nonek, I operate in the world of facts. If you say something be prepared to back it up...I don't see whats wrong with this view and I'm not going to apologize when its enforced ?

Nope, sorry your word isn't good enough

[citation needed] The studies I read existed before Gamergate so I don't believe i'm allowed to cite them, however if that is not the case i'm afraid to say I no longer have them on hand, but you're free to look for them. No Nonek, it is your responsibility to find and link them. Please don't be lazy Please explain this, i'm supposed to find papers I read years ago and no longer have on hand, and why is this my responsibility exactly? Because you are the one who made a contentious point, that I also doubt is true, and now people are questioning the facts behind what you said You said " No humans can tell reality from the false, even babies are capable of doing this, and actually show disgust for the unreal and are made uncomfortable by it."

I actually felt sorry for him to be so misinformed to take The Onion as factual...I really did feel bad for him but I also couldn't help laughing

[citation needed] The studies I read existed before Gamergate so I don't believe i'm allowed to cite them, however if that is not the case i'm afraid to say I no longer have them on hand, but you're free to look for them. No Nonek, it is your responsibility to find and link them. Please don't be lazy

It's quite a bizarre phenomenon. Even the most reasonable GGer (lol) seems to portray Sarkeesian as some kind of Machiavellian mastermind orchestrating the downfall of 'fun' and the rise of the matriarchy. She wouldn't even be a thing if they didn't get so butthurt when she was running her little kickstarter. Machiavellian implies cunning on such levels that you cannot help find admirable. No, more like the mainstream media swallowing professional victimhood. Hook, line and sinker. But you have to admit Meshugger you guys much a big deal around what she says, you guys post and then basically attack every single thing she says. And Twitter seems to be the medium of the outrage Can you not at least acknowledge you may be reading too much into her influence ?

Volo I can help you with many things but not basic comprehension I clearly asked for 3 examples of games and what has changed in these games that has impacted your gaming experience

Personally the reason I hate Anita and her ilk is because the media is pushing their agenda as "the only proper agenda". And if one business jackass at EA or Acti or Ubi decides to take what the GameJurnoPro's folks say and force their studios to slightly conform, we done got problems bro. I have no problem with criticizing her, but I just don't see any evidence that her agenda is succeeding (or is even all that focused.) Jack Thompson was bringing lawsuits against these companies, she's putting together youtube videos and tweets. She just doesn't do it for me as public enemy number 1. Publisher's don't care about her agenda, they care about the profits. I listed a bunch of games from 2015 earlier, they are pretty much all violent and geared towards male gamers. It doesn't bother me, that's the business. That is what will sell. That is all the publishers care about. Hurlshot has summarized my view on this latest incident I have asked a question several times and no one supporting GG on this thread was able to respond ( and yes there are people on this thread who do respond to me ) The question was simple one " name 3 games that have changed and impacted your gaming experience due to SJ pressure " And guess what? No evidence to support this apparent pernicious SJ influence So for me its like you guys wait for comments from people like Anita, then you all get "outraged and offended " despite the fact its just her view and doesn't really translate to any meaningful changes by publishers So then I have to ask " whats the reason behind this anti-Anita sentiment " ? That should be the real question you guys need to ask yourselves Stop being silly. Should we have to wait for the frog to be cooked before saying that boiling water will kill it? But thanks to Gamergate, it will not happen in the close future because the insidious ****s have been exposed and are running with their tails between their legs. You should be happy that the cancer is gone, why do you wish for it to grow? Now, name three games that have been changed due to reactionary pressure. None, I can't name 3 games which is exactly my point. Its false outrage that you guys are expressing because the objectives of Anita don't really translate to anything that directly effects your gaming experience I think its a bunch of factors. Its more the fear that she could change things that drives the hate. Gamers acknowledge that the online community is only a small part of the actual audience, but at the same time tend to subconciously view it as the entire audience. So when every game site holds her up as some sort of righteous crusader for all that is good and right, and if you disagree with her you're some lowly scumbag, she looks like she has a lot more influence than she does. Especially when people who have nothing to do with gaming or gamers grab on to her cause while the people trying to debunk her are looked at as awful subhumans and their points aren't even examined. Film is similar yet different. There are artsy films, the equivalent of Gone Home or Depression Quest that get all the rave reviews and are looked at as important, but no one watches them because they don't appeal to most people. Movie fans don't freak out about it because most of the film media is all about the big blockbuster entertaining movies that people actually watch. If Entertainment Tonight started talking about how movies are garbage and need to grow up and the Lord of the Rings movies are horrible misogynist messes that propogate rape culture, and everything should be more like *insert critically acclaimed art film that everyone hates*, I'm pretty sure there would be a #MovieGate too. This is a very good post and accurately discusses the " issue around the real influence that people like Anita has " I'll want to add to this, I will do later. I am just busy at work Okay so you raised a key point in this whole discussion and that is basically " its the fear of perceived changes that concern people " So lets unpack this, GG has been active for nearly 10 months and yet we haven't seen meaningful changes in games that Anita and others raise. So when do we move on and accept that what Anita says doesn't really mean games are actually changing in a way that impacts our gaming experience. And once again if you disagree with this important statement then please give 3 examples of what has changed in games that has impacted your gaming experience. Because cosmetic changes like the removing of the limerick in PoE are not going to influence your gaming experience if you are honest But you have made some pertinent points around the film industry and SJ criticism. You could very well be right and if we saw the " Anita of Films " and her view being what film review websites supported then there would or could be a real backlash. In other words criticism of the medium, it could be film or games, could also influence how credible this is seen or how well it is supported Yet we don't see this so what does this tell us? I could argue its because in the film industry people just don't take SJ criticism to heart..they don't see it as harmful or unhelpful as gamers do. So then there is no need for the film industry to have a #Moviegate because its just not needed?

Personally the reason I hate Anita and her ilk is because the media is pushing their agenda as "the only proper agenda". And if one business jackass at EA or Acti or Ubi decides to take what the GameJurnoPro's folks say and force their studios to slightly conform, we done got problems bro. I have no problem with criticizing her, but I just don't see any evidence that her agenda is succeeding (or is even all that focused.) Jack Thompson was bringing lawsuits against these companies, she's putting together youtube videos and tweets. She just doesn't do it for me as public enemy number 1. Publisher's don't care about her agenda, they care about the profits. I listed a bunch of games from 2015 earlier, they are pretty much all violent and geared towards male gamers. It doesn't bother me, that's the business. That is what will sell. That is all the publishers care about. Hurlshot has summarized my view on this latest incident I have asked a question several times and no one supporting GG on this thread was able to respond ( and yes there are people on this thread who do respond to me ) The question was simple one " name 3 games that have changed and impacted your gaming experience due to SJ pressure " And guess what? No evidence to support this apparent pernicious SJ influence So for me its like you guys wait for comments from people like Anita, then you all get "outraged and offended " despite the fact its just her view and doesn't really translate to any meaningful changes by publishers So then I have to ask " whats the reason behind this anti-Anita sentiment " ? That should be the real question you guys need to ask yourselves Stop being silly. Should we have to wait for the frog to be cooked before saying that boiling water will kill it? But thanks to Gamergate, it will not happen in the close future because the insidious ****s have been exposed and are running with their tails between their legs. You should be happy that the cancer is gone, why do you wish for it to grow? Now, name three games that have been changed due to reactionary pressure. None, I can't name 3 games which is exactly my point. Its false outrage that you guys are expressing because the objectives of Anita don't really translate to anything that directly effects your gaming experience I think its a bunch of factors. Its more the fear that she could change things that drives the hate. Gamers acknowledge that the online community is only a small part of the actual audience, but at the same time tend to subconciously view it as the entire audience. So when every game site holds her up as some sort of righteous crusader for all that is good and right, and if you disagree with her you're some lowly scumbag, she looks like she has a lot more influence than she does. Especially when people who have nothing to do with gaming or gamers grab on to her cause while the people trying to debunk her are looked at as awful subhumans and their points aren't even examined. Film is similar yet different. There are artsy films, the equivalent of Gone Home or Depression Quest that get all the rave reviews and are looked at as important, but no one watches them because they don't appeal to most people. Movie fans don't freak out about it because most of the film media is all about the big blockbuster entertaining movies that people actually watch. If Entertainment Tonight started talking about how movies are garbage and need to grow up and the Lord of the Rings movies are horrible misogynist messes that propogate rape culture, and everything should be more like *insert critically acclaimed art film that everyone hates*, I'm pretty sure there would be a #MovieGate too. This is a very good post and accurately discusses the " issue around the real influence that people like Anita has " I'll want to add to this, I will do later. I am just busy at work

Incorrect I said " name 3 games that have changed and have impacted your gaming experience " You named 3 games but failed to mention how SJ influence has impacted your gaming experience. So go back and think about this for a while...if you are honest you will come to the same irrefutable conclusion that I have come to. SJ sentiment is real and exists but it hasn't changed the way games are designed to the point where it has effected your gaming experience You know I'm right Volo...you just need to say it

Personally the reason I hate Anita and her ilk is because the media is pushing their agenda as "the only proper agenda". And if one business jackass at EA or Acti or Ubi decides to take what the GameJurnoPro's folks say and force their studios to slightly conform, we done got problems bro. I have no problem with criticizing her, but I just don't see any evidence that her agenda is succeeding (or is even all that focused.) Jack Thompson was bringing lawsuits against these companies, she's putting together youtube videos and tweets. She just doesn't do it for me as public enemy number 1. Publisher's don't care about her agenda, they care about the profits. I listed a bunch of games from 2015 earlier, they are pretty much all violent and geared towards male gamers. It doesn't bother me, that's the business. That is what will sell. That is all the publishers care about. Hurlshot has summarized my view on this latest incident I have asked a question several times and no one supporting GG on this thread was able to respond ( and yes there are people on this thread who do respond to me ) The question was simple one " name 3 games that have changed and impacted your gaming experience due to SJ pressure " And guess what? No evidence to support this apparent pernicious SJ influence So for me its like you guys wait for comments from people like Anita, then you all get "outraged and offended " despite the fact its just her view and doesn't really translate to any meaningful changes by publishers So then I have to ask " whats the reason behind this anti-Anita sentiment " ? That should be the real question you guys need to ask yourselves Stop being silly. Should we have to wait for the frog to be cooked before saying that boiling water will kill it? But thanks to Gamergate, it will not happen in the close future because the insidious ****s have been exposed and are running with their tails between their legs. You should be happy that the cancer is gone, why do you wish for it to grow? Now, name three games that have been changed due to reactionary pressure. None, I can't name 3 games which is exactly my point. Its false outrage that you guys are expressing because the objectives of Anita don't really translate to anything that directly effects your gaming experience

So lets focus on the games you mentioned, what exactly have SJW changed that has impacted your gaming experience? Is it the limerick being removed that has now caused you not to enjoy PoE? Or maybe you can't exactly find the ideal Romance partner in DAI because you don't find the Romance options attractive? You need to give me examples Volo....generalizations don't help

Personally the reason I hate Anita and her ilk is because the media is pushing their agenda as "the only proper agenda". And if one business jackass at EA or Acti or Ubi decides to take what the GameJurnoPro's folks say and force their studios to slightly conform, we done got problems bro. I have no problem with criticizing her, but I just don't see any evidence that her agenda is succeeding (or is even all that focused.) Jack Thompson was bringing lawsuits against these companies, she's putting together youtube videos and tweets. She just doesn't do it for me as public enemy number 1. Publisher's don't care about her agenda, they care about the profits. I listed a bunch of games from 2015 earlier, they are pretty much all violent and geared towards male gamers. It doesn't bother me, that's the business. That is what will sell. That is all the publishers care about. Hurlshot has summarized my view on this latest incident I have asked a question several times and no one supporting GG on this thread was able to respond ( and yes there are people on this thread who do respond to me ) The question was simple one " name 3 games that have changed and impacted your gaming experience due to SJ pressure " And guess what? No evidence to support this apparent pernicious SJ influence So for me its like you guys wait for comments from people like Anita, then you all get "outraged and offended " despite the fact its just her view and doesn't really translate to any meaningful changes by publishers So then I have to ask " whats the reason behind this anti-Anita sentiment " ? That should be the real question you guys need to ask yourselves

Now I see this as artistic freedom and to arrest her is ridiculous

OMG that sounds amazing. We generally don't cook Brisket at barbecues in South Africa but I see how popular they are in the USA

I see that you haven't even commented on my links to movies, series and art, which is perfectly in line with what Senran Kagura. They have made a game which is a celebration about girls and big boobs and respond accordingly to the banzai-attitude that japanese have to everything they do. To top it all of, you suddenly shift to comparing it to Honda, which has a completely different target audience in a completely different market. Lack of logical coherence in your argument? Check! And you seem completely unable to grasp my point, the guy is the producer of the game for a corporation\business. Therefore the rules of corporate apply, you shouldn't make offensive comments or derogatory statements. Its fine to say " but this is his target audience ", that's not the point He is encouraging sales and interest in the game by degrading and denigrating women...it shouldn't even be a discussion. We should just be saying " its not necessary to make comments like that " ...and we're back to hobby-fascism, since you have no clue about the difference between a japanese game company and a multinational corporation. You cannot fight back your inner Rush Limbaugh, just let him free already. You still haven't commented on the links that have i provided for you. And you clearly just don't understand what a companies code of conduct means or represents and the importance of a company image But I'm done with this discussion, I cant keep explaining the same reason I object to the update. Thanks for the debate anyway, it has been interesting

I see that you haven't even commented on my links to movies, series and art, which is perfectly in line with what Senran Kagura. They have made a game which is a celebration about girls and big boobs and respond accordingly to the banzai-attitude that japanese have to everything they do. To top it all of, you suddenly shift to comparing it to Honda, which has a completely different target audience in a completely different market. Lack of logical coherence in your argument? Check! And you seem completely unable to grasp my point, the guy is the producer of the game for a corporation\business. Therefore the rules of corporate apply, you shouldn't make offensive comments or derogatory statements. Its fine to say " but this is his target audience ", that's not the point He is encouraging sales and interest in the game by degrading and denigrating women...it shouldn't even be a discussion. We should just be saying " its not necessary to make comments like that " Honestly Bruce, I am actually someone who would in reality never ever make a "crass" remark about women, but your continued attempts at thought policing other people make even me want to take to social media and loudly proclaim my admiration for women's boobies. If you want to make crass comments about women please don't let me stop you, I hope you feel good about it afterwards And I'm not enforcing "thought policing ". I am saying it is worrying and unacceptable for a producer of a company who represents the ideals of that company to make comments like that. Its really about the level of responsibility that the company wants to project. Just because this particular company is fine with there producer objectifying women that doesn't make it right

I see that you haven't even commented on my links to movies, series and art, which is perfectly in line with what Senran Kagura. They have made a game which is a celebration about girls and big boobs and respond accordingly to the banzai-attitude that japanese have to everything they do. To top it all of, you suddenly shift to comparing it to Honda, which has a completely different target audience in a completely different market. Lack of logical coherence in your argument? Check! And you seem completely unable to grasp my point, the guy is the producer of the game for a corporation\business. Therefore the rules of corporate apply, you shouldn't make offensive comments or derogatory statements. Its fine to say " but this is his target audience ", that's not the point He is encouraging sales and interest in the game by degrading and denigrating women...it shouldn't even be a discussion. We should just be saying " its not necessary to make comments like that "

Keyrock remember that good graphics shouldn't be a reason to buy a game, the gameplay should be more relevant

I have no issue with someone liking busty women and appreciating the features of a women but I am still surprised you guys cannot understand why it is unacceptable for the producer of a game to send an email that so publicly and crassly describes this appreciation of women. Its not what you say..its how you say it And they can produce any game they want that they think appeals to a certain demographic...that's not the issue

How is it discriminatory IN JAPAN if it meshes with JAPANESE culture? This makes no sense. Corporations are fictional entities influenced by culture. Then you're arguing using feelz instead of knowledge. No you don't understand, corporations aren't influenced by Japanese pop songs or controversial games. They have there own standards that govern them and yet they are part of Japanese culture. So you cannot say its " cultural " to have this type of sexism as corporations won't allow it

That's not an answer, and a dodge transition from "Japanese culture" to "the corporate world". It's alright if you can't back up your points, just admit it and move on. You're shifting the goal posts. Given the content in Anime, Japanse videogames, Japanse films and television, and other Japanse art comments such as those made by Takaki are not out of line with Japanese culture, more specifically Japanese pop-culture. Okay let me try this again This boils down to whether you think the update is insensitive or not. Lets say it is offensive then the majority of corporations wouldn't use language like that because they are bound by codes of conducts which always say things like " we respect the rights of individuals and believe in a non-discriminatory environment " So how much is corporate part of a culture? It doens't reflect everything but for a country like Japan the corporations are very influential And I don't believe all the other Japanese entertainment you mentioned is as sexist as this....but I haven't researched this

hm. by your comments, you have no idea about japanese culture. you may stop now... Yeah...good points ...except for the fact I am right and this wouldn't be normal for corporations in Japan

Why? Why is it juvenile? Okay someone else will have to explain this point because I cannot seriously believe you think these types of comments would be acceptable in the corporate world or most other environments?

NSFW Video on Sex in Japanese Culture NSFW At 1:04: "What the West would consider pornography is to them everyday entertainment". A more apt comparison would be comparing Senran Kagura to some mainstream television show, such as Gossip Girl or CSI. A Japense corporation didn't, the fellow who has been involved in Senran Kagura from the start did. Since this special message appeared, we know for certain he was he did so. So you can't prove your assertions. Good to know. You're going to have to prove yourself right first. It's perfectly acceptable, an artist is announcing he is going to do what he likes. Why do you find this unacceptable? Okay so I'm going to just focus on my view of the update and why it would be unacceptable for Japanese corporations because that is the main reason I am saying corporate Japan wouldn't use a similar message It seems weird to explain this as it seems obvious but he uses a comparison to women's breasts..completely inappropriate he then uses a really juvenile personal view to describe various women's attributes He is the producer of the game, what he says will be seen in the context of what the company stands for. That is how corporations work His two incongruous comments will reflect badly on him and therefore questions will be asked about the code of conduct that the company stands for