BruceVC

I am not well informed about Lybia but as far as I know there were no ground troops either. And think you are overlooking is that OSN dont have mandate to send troops here as it Russia veto it as there is no formal invitation from legit goverment. So you are saying that 'west' should break its own rules and laws? Yes let me explain further, any type of regime change like this would require ground troops. Libya was exactly like that, the West used airstrikes to destroy Gaddafi's artillery and military hardware. But the hard city to city fighting was done by the Libyan rebels. Syria in the beginning was the same, the Syrian rebels wanted the West to destroy Assads military hardware but they were prepared to do the hand to hand fighting which would have been much more brutal than Libya And yes you correct the Russians and Chinese vetoed the West intervening in the beginning of the Syrian conflict and I'm glad that they are respecting the UN Security council....so they must not rules of the UN

Well I know one thing, we can't send in you Czechs to handle the negotiations with the Syrians .....you guys aren't that good at dealing with Muslims it seems? I was watching how some Syrians who came to Czech were marked with some stamp...like prisoners in a concentration camp ... Oh well ...you can't be good at everything Ah, you didn't comment anything I said at all. But oh well, what to expect from you right? And yeah they get numbers on hands (same we do to new born baby so its not switched to someone else baby in hospital) because they didn't got any documentation. Do you have better idea how to identify someone? . Anyway we in Czech are laughting on EU currently. For example there is free border crossing inside EU and we are supposed to get some refugees via quotas, but how on Earth we are supposed to keep them here when Motherland Merkland is right next to us? I don't even bring up how much less our social system is giving Sorry I had commented earlier, the West could have solved the Syrian problem in the beginning. They would have removed Assad like Gaddafi and then left the country in the hands of the Free Syrian Army....would that have been maintained peacefully? Who knows ....look at Libya now but I assume Libya would have been helped by The West and the Sunni countries. But end of the day I don't know ...but surly its better than the current disaster Don't worry about getting refugees...you guys have done a good job at putting them off wanting to immigrate to Czech. But my view is the Syrians shouldn't be coming to the EU at all in these numbers and even then the EU shouldn't be forcing countries like Hungary and Czech to accept refugees. There are too many cultural differences and thats understandable

And we like to talk about restaurants and cheese, thats important

Lets be honest do we really care about the ME? I'm not being hateful but they don't care about me and thats fine. Of course I would rather there was peace and the average citizen had a good life but end of the day until the governments in the region start adopting the proper principles of what a Democracy stands for and what real human rights means they are just going to be going through turmoil Yeah and you right, Assad can stay in power. He is a mass murderer of his own people and doesn't deserve to rule a country but this is the ME, I'm done getting upset with people who are intransigent. I'm happy with the fact the Iran negotiations went well and as long as the Gulf states are peaceful then thats probably the best I can hope for under the current circumstances Well I know one thing, we can't send in you Czechs to handle the negotiations with the Syrians .....you guys aren't that good at dealing with Muslims it seems? I was watching how some Syrians who came to Czech were marked with some stamp...like prisoners in a concentration camp ... Oh well ...you can't be good at everything

Okay so Malc has raised a valid question " why only airstrikes ïf they aren't enough to defeat ISIS " So I think the USA did feel some responsibility for the the disastrous state that Iraq deteriorated to 3 years after the last US troops left...and I think the idea of a genocide that they were indirectly responsible for would have been something that they wouldn't want to be associated with But there were several informed opinions that said airstrikes weren't enough and this was something Obama would have been aware of , the USA is relying on coalition partners like the Kurds to do the ground fighting but this is clearly not working But I'm sorry I don't see why the West should commit ground troops so what Zora said is also relevant. Its the " best " strategy under the circumstances.

It's bad because the west has consistently made a mess of things, has had a year to degrade ISIS with little progress shown and apart from having made a mess of things looks likely to make a further mess of things with no consistent strategy from the past, present or future. Russian intervention can scarcely be worse than that. Plus, if you happen to loathe retrograde extremists you can pretty much guarantee that Russia will go after the lot, not just selective ones based on not offending certain 'allies'. No Zora your view about the West in Syria is wrong...again They know to defeat ISIS ground troops are needed....but why should Western soldiers have to die for a ME conflict ? So its more a case of " its not worth the sacrifice and commitment of resources " And the airstrikes helped prevent the massacre of tens of thousands of Yazidis....it seems you conveniently forget that but I understand its hard to give credit to the West

TN in real life people sometimes ask me " if I ever stop talking " ....cause I talk a lot in RL

Nah this board is much better ...now we all respect SJ issues and everyone is very PC You'll notice there isn't even a " Hot Women Thread " as we don't like to objectify women unless it can't be helped

Yeah the whole Russian involvement does seem a little late and ultimately lackluster Think about the best result, somehow the Russians manage to beat the Free Syrian Army and ISIS and the Al-Qaeda groups in Syria and Assad stays in power ....in power of what? He will be alienated by the West and most of the ME....his country will stay broken and completely economic dependent on Iran and other allies ....a Russian victory would be a Pyrrhic Victory. If the West was involved then it would work but I doubt they would help Russia to help Assad...and I can't blame them Drowsy doesnt generally want to acknowledge much Serbian responsibility for any atrocities or blame for there involvement in Bosnia or Kosovo. Its the most bizarre thing as I accept my families role in Apartheid and I condemn the system ....but it doesn't define me Its strange how most Serbs I speak to dont want to accept there role in the wars....its not a big deal as it should be seen as a way to actually liberate people.

The Russian are welcome to the ME, they will quickly realize what a difficult place it is to be involved in Personally I don't think they have the real commitment to make a meaningful difference but lets see how things progress

See, that's what I thought for a long time, too, but the truth is...no, it's really just not. There's definitely still *a* point in still replying, for sure, but is it a convincing point - a point that is enough that you should actually still do it? I just don't think so. If such...unsavory individuals want to demagogue and weasel their way into feeling like they win all their arguments (or at least don't lose them), I say let 'em: most people will pick up on such ridiculous antics after some time of being around them, anyways, and adjust accordingly. If other people without such terrible behavior - even completely unknown people - want to raise the same points, then I'll engage with them...but I personally have had my full share's worth of people who haven't had seemingly even one good faith discussion throughout their entire existence. So...that's that. Barti its not nice to talk about people like that...I'm sure 2133 wants to engage in meaningful discussions even if we don't agree with him

I'm glad the Russians are getting more involved in global events apart from Putins irrational desire to create a geographical barrier between Russia and NATO\Western countries...like the Ukraine debacle They have correctly realized that they have to become more committed and interested in crisis points around the world that they could influence ....this way they are seen to be " just trying to help the Syrians " and " nice and friendly " ...they will need to convince certain countries of there new amicable personality in order to get sanction relief ..which they really need But I don't care what there motives are, its good they want to " help " ....Syria is such a calamitous mess and all they doing is committing airstrikes ....this has been proven to not be that effective at destroying groups like ISIS, it does slow them down and can hamper there operating capacity, as you need ground troops....so unless they send Russian troops I dont see what difference it will make ? "

Yeah both of those work for me, I probably prefer the cabin but the RV is very convenient ...you can basically camp anywhere you can park I imagine

Okay, I really have to ask. Have you actually read any of the links you posted? I don't need to refute your sources, because your sources don't back your points! Let's see, factual errors first, politics later. Nearly four in every five (79 %) asylum seekers in the EU-28 in 2014 were aged less than 35 (see Table 3); those aged 18–34 accounted for slightly more than half (54 %) of the total number of applicants, while minors aged less than 18 accounted for one quarter (26 %). — Yep, clearly 3/4 of them are men in their best fighting age. (men aged 18-34 actually amount to ~41%) Out of the 185k first-time asylum seekers in Q1 2015, 26% were Kosovars, 16% Syrians, Afghans amounting to 7%. Those of Maghrebi (North African) origin are a negligible fraction at best — Yep, clearly about half of them are North African or Arab. In 2014, close to half (45 %) of EU-28 first instance asylum decisions resulted in positive outcomes, that is grants of refugee or subsidiary protection status, or an authorisation to stay for humanitarian reasons [...] This share was considerably lower (18 %) for final decisions (based on appeal or review) / At the end of March 2015, around 530,000 persons were the subject of an application for asylum protection in the EU still under consideration by the responsible national authority — Yep, clearly everyone (well mostly everyone) is welcomed in Europe. In most regions, fewer favor other specific aspects of sharia, such as cutting off the hands of thieves and executing people who convert from Islam to another faith. [...] While many say there is only one true interpretation, substantial percentages in most countries either say there are multiple interpretations or say they do not know. [...] By contrast, only a minority of Muslims across Central Asia as well as Southern and Eastern Europe want sharia to be the official law of the land. [...] Among Muslims who support making sharia the law of the land, most do not believe that it should be applied to non-Muslims. [...] In Central Asia as well as Southern and Eastern Europe, relatively few Muslims who back sharia support severe criminal punishments. [...] Muslims in Central Asia as well as Southern and Eastern Europe are generally less likely to support stoning adulterers. [...] Elsewhere in the two regions, fewer than four-in-ten favor this type of punishment, including roughly a quarter or fewer across the countries surveyed in Southern and Eastern Europe. [...] In Central Asia as well as Southern and Eastern Europe, only in Tajikistan (22%) do more than a fifth of Muslims who want sharia as the official law of the land also condone the execution of apostates. — Yep, clearly executing apostates and non-Muslims and conducting female genital amputation is morally paramount. And you ask me why I'm so hostile? Well, you should well know: "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." Seriously, if you try to flood me with a bunch of irrelevant or misleading links again, I'm just going to reply by posting a ton of cat memes. I do have a lot of free time — that doesn't mean you get to waste it. Now: Yes. Or we could also look at the rape of Polish and Soviet women by Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS members, the rape of German women by RKKA members, the Rape of Nanking, the rape rate in Detroit in '85 and so on and so forth, to see why "the increase in sex crimes in Germany is being fueled by the preponderance of Muslim males among the mix of refugees/migrants entering the country" is total bull****. It's not about Muslims as much as it is about a bunch of other factors such as a complete breakdown of the rule of law, absence of repercussions, dismal living conditions and hopelessness. A bit of сum hoc ergo propter hoc never hurt anyone, right? Now, for some quick fun, let's try a little thought experiment. Let's take Marseille, which ZeroHedge claims has the highest Muslim ratio of any city in Europe, and go with a worst-case scenario: 35% are already Muslims. Now we dump the whole of France's refugee quota (30k) in there. The Muslim percentage goes up from 35% to a whopping... 38%!!! OMFG!!! Clearly, this scheme is going to "radically change the entire demographics in Europe". If you want me to find links to prove that refugees fleeing from IS and Boko Haram who are granted asylum in Europe will not be raped en masse and murdered by IS and Boko Haram, well, yes, I don't have any. I also don't have any links proving that water is wet and rope is useful for pulling but not for pushing, so please don't ask. I still believe however that we have an immediate moral mandate to at least give people whose countries we're complicit of turning into hellholes a chance to request asylum. I haven't argued for accepting everyone no matter what, because nobody is proposing that. I'm just calling bull**** on your doomsaying. Europe and "the West" at large is much more likely to fall due to to dumbass westerners more worried about their level 100 Pikachu than the fact that their government murders abroad in their name, and who are incapable of thinking for themselves, of even understanding what the freedoms earned by their forebears entail (let alone standing up for them), than to hordes of Muslim refugee-rapists. No, I don't have evidence that absorption of unskilled and uneducated foreigners is positive from a socioeconomic standpoint, and to be honest, I don't believe it is. However, I'm of the opinion that moral imperatives must overrule macroeconomic arguments. And by the way: being an able-bodied male does not mean you are generally obligated to fight in any war. Especially not in those you haven't had a hand in causing. Removing potential manpower reserves from war-torn areas is a good thing, I should think. I think a much greater risk to the future of the EU is where countries like Spain don't see the value of austerity and blame the Germans for the fact that they haven't managed there economies properly...and then anti-austerity parties come to power who now expect bailouts and financial restructuring of there economies without making the necessary changes that are expected of them So yes I am not worried that Muslim refugees are going to in anyway undermine the EU or somehow weaken it. I am much more concerned with countries undergoing austerity not seeing the long term value of that austerity

Every man should have the knowledge, the skills and equipment required for spending a week outdoors. Thats basic human life knowledge, skills on the same level as basic first aid skills and the ability to defend yourself. You right, every man should have basic outdoor survival skills... but real and understandable lack of exposure to said outdoor survival skills makes that goal unrealistic Hence my objective to include someone like you on every camping trip really works...I also contribute in my own way. I get involved in the cooking and logistics around what food we need to buy. So our shared system of " camping responsibility " resonates with most people as they do see it as fair

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/arts/television/trevor-noah-daily-show-debut.html?_r=0 http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/daily-show-trevor-noah-tv-827833 So I'm not sure if anyone was watching and what everyone thinks of his debut at replacing the legendary Jon Stewart but Trevor Noah seems to have scored mostly favorable reviews Good for him, I'll be watching to see how he performs going forward

Because the media (state and private) have portrayed it about thousands of families (pictured as women and children) from Syria are coming, that we all need to help, and subsequently we have had charities with childrens clothes, books, and toys. We established a huge network of refugee centers, built an infrastructure and reserved houses and renovated them for Syrian families....when in reality it is well-dressed, happy Iraqi and Afghani men in fighting age that have a lot of money. Elerond already linked about people turning back because the lack bars and the weather, which leaves people feeling quite duped. The cracks are already showing when the minister of interior is already calling for renegotitation of the quotas with other nordic countries. Well it hasn't exactly been a secret that there will also be refugees from other war torn countries, like Afghanistan and Iraq. These would be accepted in the EU but economic migrants wouldn't be So I'm not sure how Finland can say this was a complete surprise ?

That looks stunning, it should be a nice break I don't mind camping as long as there is someone who comes along who knows all about the various camping tasks...like how to put the tent up properly and how to fish and do other camping related things

This is a good post Zora, its interesting and raises some good points

Yes you are a reactionary....not quite a zealot but no doubt a reactionary

You guys are all delusional. We go to war over nothing and you think we wouldn't go to war over something? Nah, the USA going to war over misinformation and a hidden political agenda, like Iraq, is not the same as the USA going to war over nothing

Oh that video make me laugh...I know it was not meant to be funny but do you think these media houses look for the most controversial but presentable person, like the major, and then ask him his view on the refugees knowing full well he is going to come across looking very bigoted and ignorant? Did you see the designated area they were thinking of housing the refugees in....I don't think you could get hell hounds to live there Oh then his concern about "the needs " ....I'm interested in how European " needs "are different from lets say a Syrian refugee....does he really think that Syrians would be more inclined to acts like rape because they are have had a long and harrowing journey Anyway there are much better spokesmen for the Hungarian view than that major and they make a better case than him around the issues with the Syrians

So South Africa beat Samoa 46-6 ...we played exactly how we should have played against Japan last week This past week has been particularly mentally draining and melancholic as almost everyone I know has been saying how the loss against Japan represents the state of the country and how we are beset by so many insurmountable social problems " whats the point in staying in South Africa " ...yes hyperbole was rife. It reminded me again how human beings can become so fixated on something like sport, that really just represents entertainment and for some a sense of pride, and then start associating things with it that are not relevant Anyway great game and we are back as contenders for a World Cup victory...I'm off to celebrate and drink up a storm

Thanks for sharing in such detail. I want to get feedback from the average citizen in the EU countries that are going to be taking in Syrians Stupid question but when you say your concern is a war who exactly would this conflict be between ? The Syrians and Austrians?

Woldan I am sorry for not asking you this earlier but what is your view on these Syrians ...please be honest as I have no idea what your average Austrian mountain man thinks?