BruceVC

You once said you support CRT being taught at schools, what were talking about if you support it? Because I assume you dont just support things that dont exist? And then I will repeat what I mentioned several times, I have seen several interviews on CNN where teachers in different US school districts openly say " we have been told we cant teach CRT and its unfair because we want to provide our students with an inclusive view of history " (or something similar ) Here is a link from a teacher that acknowledges CRT teaching has been banned but has found a way to bypass it, again its strange how liberal teachers themselves are talking about how the curriculum has been banned considering how you say it doesnt exist https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10005353/Iowa-teacher-proudly-shares-circumvents-states-ban-CRT-encouraging-questions.html But just to clarify something, since we dont have anyone who can produce a curriculum, not the same thing as saying it doesnt exist, my issue with it is around any teaching that tells kids that a country like the US was founded only on racism and inequality and the US is country of structural racism. Thats false, the US was not founded or created only on racism and oppression and racism exists in the US but its not structural And why do I care about this type of false narrative in the US? Its because this spreads to other countries like the UK and SA and I dont agree that history should be selective or revisionist

Its funny you mention Codex, some people on this forum have called me a racist, fascist or colonialist Yet on Codex some people call me a led-belly, snowflake, degenerate, glowie liberal Im confused about my identity, what am I

Yes that correct, at least at the school level. Its was originally a university subject but the university subject is part of law and not controversial. Its the school subject that is concerning But their is an attempt to teach it, I personally cant find a school curriculum but Im also not going to spend too much time looking ( I have spent 1-2 hours ) but anyone in the US public sector school in a state that wants to teach it would have access to it. If you take Lexx's link it states " A resolution banning critical race theory" And I have made this point several time, you cant ban something in a school if it doesnt exist in some form or another. So there is no doubt it exists in the school level. All I have ever asked is access to the school curriculum so I can read what they want to teach kids. Parents should have the right to that as well? And this matters to me personally because as I predicated its now come to SA and there are one or two debates around " should we teach CRT in schools "

Strange story because that happened in liberal California ?

Yes but the majority of women find out they pregnant when they miss their period. At that point you not showing so all women in the US need to do is not register and not tell the state and go to another state. Their is complete confidentially in states that allow abortion So the state of Texas that makes abortion illegal will never know. And its not like people are monitored and questioned when you travel between states. No one will ask why someone is travelling to another state

Yes but all you do is dont tell the state you pregnant, its not like people generally announce it to the whole world?

How is anyone going to know if a women travels to a state and has an abortion?

Elerond I am not sure if you have researched what new voting laws target minorities unfairly? I havent but I have followed some interviews on CNN and Im not sure what people are talking about ?

You very cynical you know that

One final point about Trump and the reason people support him. I responded to Lexx around his policies during his presidency. His policies are different to his statements and grandstanding that you referenced This is an important distinction because most of his policies were implemented and created by people who werent about the theater of Trumpism like the trade war with China which was the brainchild of the erudite Wilbur Ross And the reason I mention this is if you judge the Trump presidency only on his statements then I agree he is an epic failure. But tax breaks and getting Conservative judges into the SC is more about Conservative values So thats why many Conservatives dont support Trump necessarily because of the theater of Trumpism but because he was able to deliver on certain successful policies And this matters because you dont want to think that all the people who vote for Trump believe the offensive things you mentioned. For many GOP supporters its about his policies like the anti-socialism stance that many Cuban Americans agree with

Its important to remember that only 55% of Americans vote or are registered voters https://www.statista.com/statistics/273743/number-of-registered-voters-in-the-united-states/ Which means 150 millions Americans dont vote. So whatever the outcome is of any US elections it doesn't represent what Americans believe ideologically. It only represents what people who vote think So if Trump wins in 2024 its not the end of the US

What concerns you the most about the EU and its ostensible direction towards authoritarianism We dont discuss enough about real problems in the EU so Im always interested in what concerns EU citizens ?

Im not going to ask you to provide a link for every point so I can confirm the context of what he said and what he meant I dont want to spend that kind of time on this debate. I was being diplomatic when I said " much ". I remember much of what you posted and he did say it But the reality of Trumps comments like you posted is he often had an answer and how things were taken out of context by the media. But the point is you right, he did say those things

And I dont disagree with some of these points, much of it is true

Im not whitewashing anything or using whataboutism? Im responding to your questions around how Trump supporters see the points your raised. I am not a Trump supporter as I mentioned but he could be the US president in 2024 so its important to understand why people support him At the very least you could read my post and disagree and explain why you disgaree....thats how debate works

So I am just going to summarize the response to the points you mentioned, we can go into more detail if you interested. I have been following the US election ideological developments since about 2003 and you have to realize its much more nuanced and complicated than what most people realize because we naturally compare it to our own Democracies. For example gun control is not as simple as we all think because its Constitutional and cultural to many Americans and thats never going to change And then its important to not generalize about either party in the US, both parties have extreme left and right elements and both parties have moderates and centralist views. I support both parties in different ways but at the moment Im more GOP leaning but during Obamas time I was Democrat. But Im not a Trump supporter - He is openly racist : This is often raised but its subjective, he got 30% of the Hispanic vote in 2016 and he always has black people who support him. You will always find " Blacks for Trump " at all his rallies. Its awkward when white people like us assume Trump is racist yet not all black people will agree on that - Crapton of nepotism : He had very clever advisors in his cabinet in 2016 especially around economic policies. The unemployment rate amongst Hispanic and black Americans was the lowest its ever been. So nepotism can be seen as qualified people in certain government departments like the Wilbur Ross and others https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_economic_advisors_to_Donald_Trump - How he handled Covid-19: Agreed, it was mishandled but the high deaths in the US was more due to citizens and governors who rejected basic virus best practice like vaccines. Trump himself took vaccines but much of his base and supporters refused. So I think this was more about the global push back to proven science around vaccines - Immigration politics : The immigration on the border is worse under the Democrats and getting worse. Illegal immigration is a crisis in many countries including SA - Lied constantly and got away with everything : His supporters will tell you either he didnt lie or its " just how Trump is " or " the media is taking him seriously when he was just trolling" and he use to do this on purpose to get a liberal media response and create a distraction to real issues...and people fell for it time and time again. But he was cavalier with facts and repeated misinformation but his supporters didnt seem to care - Insurrection, and got away with it (so far, we'll see what happens next) : Trump genuinely believes the election was stolen. Its different from knowing he lost and lying about it like Bannon and Giuliani did. But yes we need to see if he will he prosecuted for willful ignorance - Withdrawal from the Paris Climate Agreement: Bad decision and a mistake - Wanted to get out of NATO : Terrible decision and demonstrated Trumps lack of interest and understanding in history and events outside of the US - Is obviously a russian puppet : I wouldnt call him a Putin puppet but he admires autocratic and strongmen governments because they dont allow things like a free media. Thankfully Trump cant destroy the free media in the US - Enlisting Foreign Officials to Help His Candidacy (remember Ukraine): Yes, Trump was transactional around everything. He never understood the importance of decorum and presidential protocol. So in his mind it was acceptable to try to " bribe " Zelensky to help him undermine Biden. Again this was an example of Trump not understanding geopolitics and what any president can or cant do - Dismantled the Iran atom deal: A complex one, the Obama prudent nuclear deal was not practiced in good faith by the hardliners in Iran because they tested ballistic missiles and continue to destabilize the ME. The nuclear deal was supposed to be about overall stability in the ME between Shia and Sunnis and the Iranian hardliners didntn follow this - Generally anti-science: Agreed, Trump has very little understanding and belief in science - Is part of some weird religious cult (ofc he is not religious, but he and his people don't mind using whatever they can to get power and money) : Agreed, the Trumperism cult is a concern to me because most of them no longer vote on what they believe but rather what Trump tells them to do. This undermines the principle of what citizens in any Democracy are suppose to do

Yes I was being serious, when I ask questions about anyones opinion its because I dont want to assume. So unless Im clearly joking I am always sincere about the questions I ask You raise some good points and I share some of your concerns. I will respond later because I have some work pressures now But I appreciate you going into details because now I understand what you mean

Im interested in what you mean, Trump won in 2016 in a free and fair election. What did people you know lose trust in? Because we cant get upset with the outcome of any Democrat election in the world if thats what the majority of people who register to vote and decide to vote choose? I am genuinely interested in what you mean, I can guess but I dont want to guess?

Well I agree the EU needs to be do more and its starts having a more resourced military. Which is why Im glad Scholtz has increased the military spending for Germany

Just for the record I think another 4 years of Trump will be a bad idea for US and global Democracy generally. But at least it will only be for another 4 years...how much damage can he really do? I do share your concern about the undermining of Democracy anywhere in the world But I cant stress the point enough how much worse the world would be without the US because we would all be beholden and influenced to the likes of Russia and China and their ideological views. You must realize the US provides the main counter to these true autocrat and undemocratic states

Oh no, the fascist word ....bad Lexx, bad Lexx using a word in the wrong context A country that is Constitutional Democracy is not a fascist state. So the majority of Americans dont have to realize something that isnt true But its always good to ensure that a Democracy doesnt slide into a non-Democratic state and become an autocratic or true fascist state. Thats why you have a free media, independent courts and a vibrant civil society in the US and you have the different arms of government that hold each other accountable I cant think of any example in the world where a working, functional Democracy has become an autocratic or fascist state? But we must always be on our guard so its good to be concerned and wary And finally the US is the most powerful military in the world but can you imagine how much more worse the world would be if the US suddenly became isolationist and we were left with Russia and China as the worlds next most powerful militaries. Thats much more scary than the US

@Gfted1 I wonder if you could use rubber bullets in a drone?

No its a women

Its fake news hoonding, dont believe a word. The radical left have always been trying to undermine Peterson because he calls them out and correctly identifies their pernicious and insidious influence

Sarex "concern " with how the police responded in Uvalde has nothing to do with if the police are really brave or the actual killings Its just the normal anti-US and by proxy anti-Western ideological bashing. Have you ever known a debate on this forum where anyone has made multiple posts about when the police have gone in and killed shooters or lost there lives during a violent standoff ? Do we say " the US police are really brave "? Im not saying people cant discuss the bravery of the police in Uvalde but its just theater and not sincere