Stargate: 2000

Dare we say "Flame Bait"!!! Thats all this topic is going to become so why even bother? Everyone has their own opinion on which is better so the only way for you to make up your mind is to try both and then decide because by asking this simple question all your going to get is a lot of arguing over which is better nothing more..... saying you read past the first three or four posts that is.

More adequate is to say that startrek has kilingons and star wars has yuuzhan vong. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ok can you explain your logic in compairing the kilingons to the yuuzhan vong. Because as I understand them (the vong that it.... and I could be wrong so please correct me if I am) they want to destroy all life in the SW universe and then take control of all the planets. Where as the kilingons just go to battle to prove them selves (like the mandalorians) and would rather die than cause dishonor to themselves, their family, or their battle group (also like the mandalorians). If you were going to compair the yuuzhan vong to anyone from the Star Trek universe I would think either species 8472 or the borg would be the best to compair them to (though the borg only wish to assimilate everyone in order to become perfect).

1)New characters completely 2)Returning characters completely 3)Both of the above 4)Better game engine 5)Better storyline 6)More known worlds like Coruscant.... 7)Ship different than the Ebon Hawk 8)All of the above 9)Nothing changes, I liked the first two the way they were 1, 4, 5 (just better ending), 6 (BIGGER worlds with more to do and more people to talk to, not just long halways), and 7. Also for it to be set about 100+ years after the end of TSL.

what do you mean?

but why? I mean while TSL might have had a rather lackluster ending it was still an ending. In other words LS you go to help revan and DS you take a seat of imense power for yourself. If your looking for an explination about the NPCs then thats also simple they stay behind and get on with their lives while your off on your adventure (LS) or they simply are dead either before or shortly after you take your seat of power (DS). If your looking for an ending to Revan's story then thats also simple he fights and dies end of story, how and when it happens is really not all that important since one or even two people can't hope to stand against an entire race even with the great power that both the exile and Revan commanded (mainly because, as other people have said, the true sith are a force to be reconed with when it comes to the force, after all they have had along time to focus on the DS and thus are likely to be a lot more powerful than even revan or the exile could ever hope to become). Someone or something is bound to kill them at some point its only a matter of time.

After reading all of the posts up till now I am begining to wonder how many people are really wanting the story of revan to continue? or if people are just wanting to have revan return? I know they sound like the samething but in truth they are very different. The first one would work no matter how you do the story for K3, even if it was set some 1000 years in the future by simply having convos and halocrons showing/explaining Revan's final fate and the decisions that lead to it. While the other is more of a fanboy (I am at a lack of a better word here and aplogize for using it) response to the situation, in this idea you are forcing whoever is going to develope the game to use another persons character and ideas to make a game. While its not impossible to make a story where this might work it becomes more difficult as you add in the different variables that come with a RPG (i.e. revans ls/ds actions and the exiles ls/ds actions plus the different party member combos that come with them just to name a few). While having Revan and the Exile return for yet another game would be good, the question then becomes where does it end? I mean there is always going to be people who aren't happy with the ending choosen and thus prompting the company to further continue the saga for another game and another and another and so on and so on, until everything that made these character speacial has been stripped away and all we are left with are mere shadows of what Bio and OE invisioned when they started their collective developments. I for one would like Revan and The Exile to end their stories while I can still stand to hear about them in a game and not sometime down the road when I no longer remember what it was that started the whole adventure or even who was involved. SO in other words I say let Revan and The Exile have their mysterious ending from TSL and move on to an whole new story for K3 with a brand new cast of characters and maybe (should it fit into the game play) explain what finally happened to them on the outer reaches of the galaxy.

Most Holy ;-) would have a problem with marketing and most of the fans if Most Holy broke direct continuity. This is, after all, Knights of the Old Republic, not Tales of the Knights of the Old Republic. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> huh???

Yes. Or, alternatively, no. In truth, I was pointing out that there is a third way between ending a trilogy with a title to go and obliterating several people's experiences of KOTOR 1 and 2 by creating an 'official' game Revan and Exile. Specifically: it's quite easy to get around problems of gender and alignment, because those things can be hidden and they don't completely define a person. Cloaking them in a mixture of heavy clothing and ambiguous plot details is one way; another is for them to die. Or... an idea with which I'm currently toying is that they die like Obi-Wan does. Only through, like, dissolving into the Force can they aid the young protagonist of KOTOR 3 and thus defeat the super Sith Empire. That 'un was sparked by musings on these boards, I recall. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Having them as force ghosts wouldn't work they way your thinking, mainly because after vader died he lost his whole robotic self and was a normal man/ghost (i.e. looked like obi-won) so they couldn't have them with the hoods and all unless they were DS and even then how are you going to comuncate with them since neither of them have set voices? I would be simplar for both the gamer and developer to have them long dead and just have a flashback showing them either die or kill all the sith or to have them die fighting the sith and (as ShadowPaladin sugested) have the story unfold around their kid(s) instead of them. Not a bad idea though it might be a litle like the whole "I'm your father" thing you were trying to avoid in the first place. On the other hand having the two kids (saying you could choose who you wanted to play as) it would allow for the player to have the ability to be a member of the sith and either embrace the DS or to turn away from it after their training was complete (maybe something to do with meeting their sibling brings them to the other side of the force either DS or LS depending on the character you choose at the begining... scratch that its really just sucks, no wonder I am not a writer ). couldn't agree more, I know I wasn't a big fan of the Atton questions in TSL.

I had this happen in two places one was on GOTOs ship, but in my game I had Atton and Bao-dur in my rescue party. the other place was the hidden sith temple on dxun where I had atton and the handmaiden. Both times it was atton who started the rampaging through the large group of bad guys then just as you explained if I changed the character the other(s) would follow suit, then all of the sudden it just stopped..

I really can't because they both are along the ideas of what I want in the next game, and since I am one of the ones who would like the story of the exile and revan to end with TSL (atleast for them being seen or heard anyway) I don't see any problem with either idea as long as we actually get to join the sith in the next game.

Both are very good ideas, Both put a type of closure to the story of revan and the exile and both have a fresh new spin to the KOTOR series, namely the actual ability to JOIN!!!!! the sith and not just be a sith wanabe like in the past two games

well you had three on the first page I was just wondering which one you were refering to.

umm... which idea was that?

regaurdless of whether it was a joke or not it was still a great idea, and it does solve the problem of what happened to revan and the exile. The fact that it does draw such a direct parallel to the movies (well the good ones at least) is one of the main reasons why I like this idea so much. As others have said the idea of having a questionaire at the begining of the game would just suck, it would only serve to furthur detatch the player from the dream world that is the Starwars universe. 'S not that hard. If Bio managed to have flashbacks of an ambiguous Revan that allowed for male and female versions, then KOTOR3 can have a similarly ambiguous Revan in a robe, hood and mask. It would be quite appropriate, really, if KOTOR3 continues along lines of moral, narrative ambiguity. Assuming you show him at all, of course. The need for a walking, talking Revan can be disappeared quite easily. "Oh no, Revan's dead!" Or, failing that, has ascended to some kind of magical Force-spirit or whatever. Ditto the Exile, although he'd need a costume change to match Revan's new MYSTARY summer look. Regardless, if presented with a situation where doing something in a direct, unsubtle manner results in plot development chaos, then instead of getting into a tizz or chucking the idea altogether, find another way of doing it. If Revan and the Exile are ambiguous, then don't fight it - use it! Face and gender unknown? Robe and mask. Voiceless? No dialogue. Undecided morality? Use motivations that aren't restricted to one particular side of the Force. Yes, very whacky. Nergh. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> umm...so in other words your in favour of killing both Revan and the Exile off then?

If nothing I would say that we all have been very respectful of the other peoples opinons on this matter and have all taken a great deal of time to think out our side of the arguement in order to convince the other person to see the topic in a new light.

But then we are back to a very linear story with little or not character growth meaning a very boring RPG! great for an action game or FPS but not for a RPG. Only the people who designed these characters can ever do them the justice they deserve. So I am guessing that from the way it sounds that your not going to buy K3 should they decide not to go with exile or Revan? Also they could easily answer all the questions about the ending of the past two games by using a simple video at the begining of the game.

:"> oops my misstake, I forgot which ones were the sequels and just guessed. Ok but why do they have to play a direct role? They could be mentioned in the game as part of the established history thus giving the "much needed" closure. Really we don't need to play them as characters all we need is to hear what happened. Even though it doesn't sound like it would be a lot of work, (I imagine) it would be a great deal of work to implement that for two characters not too mention having to write the extra lines and coding to include the ramafacations(sp?) of their actions in the past games. No matter how OE might have changed Revan he is still Bio's character he is how they wanted him and even his back story would/should reflect that. Since we already know most of revans past (from KOTOR and TSL) there isn't much to be learned other than the past five years which wouldn't take a lot of time to explain in a small video of converstaion. Same goes for the Exile, we already know a lot of his back story from TSL and there isn't much else to explain. Bio also had ideas about what TSL should be but when OE took over the rains they tossed out any and all other ideas and went with their own new ideas in order to make the game theirs and not someone elses (yes LA gave them some directives but for the most part they were aloud to develope the game as they saw fit) But you can have a continuity(sp?) sequel without having a direct sequel or in other words have the game deal with the events of the past two game without actually having it take place at the sametime as the other two. So it would be possible to set the game 10, 50, 100 or 1000 years after the events of TSL and still have it feeling the effects from the past two games. Just an example but say have revan and exile fail and the true sith come to the known worlds and start killing off everything and the new Jedi must try to stop them with the aid of the newly reformed jedi order maybe rally other jedi to the cause [kinda like revan did against the manadalorians]. I like this idea either include it in the begining of the game (making it skipable like the tutorial was in TSL). Must say I LOVE this idea!!! IMO it would truely give this series a true Starwars feel! This would be a great way to get a new character and not really have to deal with either the exile or revan but also add the closure that a lot of fans are screaming about. Not to mention that a child born of Revan and the Exile should be VERY in touch with the force maybe even stronger than either of its parents (plus we would get joelee back!!! (w00t) ).

Your right KOTOR was about Revan, and TSL was about The Exile, and now KOTOR 3 can be about a new PC with a new cause. I have a couple questions for anyone who wants Revan and the Exile back for KOTOR 3. Saying neither OE nor Bio gets the contract to develope K3 (unlikely but still possible) what do you think the chances of another developer doing either of these great characters any real justice? What do you think are the chances that any other developer even working with either of these characters?

If OE gets the chance to do K3 then I think they will do a great job with it but I hope if they decide to involve revan that they get someone from Bio to help with his development (not saying OE couldn't do a great job with him, its just its not their character and might be harder for them to design him so he keeps with the way bio did without their involvement). I would like to see their take on what the real sith are (mainly because I know nothing about EU). I guess I just fear that if either OE or Bio doesn't get the contract for K3 that whoever does decide to make it will royally screw up the entire series with their take on another developers ideas should they continue from where TSL left off.

you can get crystals at any vendor it just takes time for them to show up in the inventory (saying you do the multiple reload thing).

I must say GREAT answer!... umm... if the whole game developer thing does work out for yah, you should really look into working for the UN! Though with games of TSL's quality I doubt you will have the need to change anytime in the near future.

OK I understand what your saying but the thing is that if OE or Bio doesn't get the rights to develope KOTOR III then its highly unlikely that we will have a game (atleast one thats any good anyway) that deals with revan directly (if at all other than just a passing note) since no one likes dealing with other peoples characters. This is part of the reason why (atleast as far as I can guess) OE decided to not continue revans story into the unknown region and also why they only had few returning party NPCs. Its far more likely that we will get another new PC with the game and a little info on what happened to Revan and the Exile but the chances of the new PC meeting either of them or either of them being in the new PCs party is highly unlikely. I for one would like a new story that revolves around a new problem with a new PC and new NPCs, mainly because it would give the gamer and the developer more freedom when it comes to what the story is and how it unfolds during the coruse of the game. If we had a direct continuation we would more or less be stuck with a very linear plot and character development (saying we had a new PC ) or a linear plot with little to no character development (think of mandalore) should we use either of the past PCs as the PC for the new game. And that woudl ruin the whole game for me, since part of the fun of the game is finding out more about the PC and the interactions with NPCs as the game progresses not too mention the freedom to solve the game in the order I choose not in the order the developer chooses because it is the only way to advance the plot so it makes sense.

Ok I am going to ask why? Why is it that KOTOR means Revan only? does this mean that you thought TSL is was horrible because it didn't focus on revan? (not meaning this as a flame or anything just trying to better understand where your comming from thats all) See now I like this Idea because it would give a type of closure to the privious story lines.

(While I hate this series) look at final fantasy every game has a new set of characters (and the first two had the same characters carried over) and it has become the longest/besat selling RPG series in history so obviously this can work and has worked in the past and of course having the starwars title will always sell the game regaurdless of how its made (look at galaxies). I agree that it would be nice to continue the stories of Revan and the Exile but is it really a must in order to have a great game? NO. Is it needed in order to fit into the series? NO (because you can find out what happened to them without having them in the game at all). So then the question becomes why does everyone seem to want them in the game? well because thus far they are the only characters they have known. Because of the way TSL ended. and because of the fact that OE sugested that revan had a greater mission than destroying the star forge. All of which are good ideas and good reasons as to why they could be in the game, but they are not reasons why they should be in the game. Would it be a let down if Revan and the exile weren't in KOTOR III sure but would it be a bad decision? NO! because as I have said it would open them upto other parts of the starwars universe and thus more possible plot lines other than just focusing on two characters (which should go without saying but I will anyway, it would limit how diverse the game-play would be the story would more or less have to be very linear to tell that story to an end and that would mean the third game wouldn't be an RPG...wouldn't it?)

If Bio does KOTOR III then any of the above (since Revan was their character and all) if anyone else does KOTOR III then he is a distant memory. Same goes with the exile if OE does KOTOR III then any of the above if anyone else does it then a distant memory.