MaxQuest

Btw, since retaliation goes through standard attack resolution, does it interrupt now?

Glad to hear that) It indeed can be confusing...

^ Multiplicatively Curse of Blackened Sight default duration: 20s with 30 INT on hit: 40s with 30 INT on crit: 60s with 30 INT on graze: 20s

Viceversa. Perception does increase accuracy. And yeap, crits do increase durations by 50%. Grazes do decrease durations by 50%.

For main hand (with unlabored blade): spd_coef = AttackSpeedMultiplier + DW + TWFighting + MeleeAttackSpeedMultiplier(VulnAttack) + ArmorSpeedFactor spd_coef = (1.2 * 1.25 - 1) + 0.5 + (1.2 - 1) + (0.8 - 1) + (0.8 + 0.15 - 1) = 0.5 + 0.5 - 0.05 = 0.95 (or 1.95 old style) rec_coef = max(0, 1 - 0.95) = 0.05 dex_coef = 1 + (21 - 10) / 33.3 = 1.33 (in frames) base_action (dagger) (10 DEX) = 5 (delay) + 20 (attack duration) + 33 (recovery duration) new_action (dagger) (10 DEX) = 5 (delay) + 20 (attack duration) + 1.65 (recovery duration) new_action (dagger) (21 DEX) = 5 (delay) + 15 (attack duration) + 1.24 (recovery duration) For off hand (with durganized saber): spd_coef = AttackSpeedMultiplier + DW + TWFighting + MeleeAttackSpeedMultiplier(VulnAttack) + ArmorSpeedFactor spd_coef = (1.15 * 1.25 - 1) + 0.5 + (1.2 - 1) + (0.8 - 1) - (0.8 + 0.15 - 1) = 0.43 + 0.5 - 0.05 = 0.88 (or 1.88 old style) rec_coef = max(0, 1 - 0.88) = 0.12 dex_coef = 1 + (21 - 10) / 33.3 = 1.33 (in frames) base_action (dagger) (10 DEX) = 5 (delay) + 30 (attack duration) + 50 (recovery duration) new_action (dagger) (10 DEX) = 5 (delay) + 30 (attack duration) + 6 (recovery duration) new_action (dagger) (21 DEX) = 5 (delay) + 22.5 (attack duration) + 4.5 (recovery duration)

About Vielo Vidorio and those listed status effects? Yeap. I did a test once 3.0 came out.And tested it again, right now: The rules on stacking are a bit complex. Decided to take a peak in the code. In order to check if effect1 suppresses effect2, the game makes checks if: 1). effect2 is in a hardcoded Overrides array of effect1. If yes it gets suppressed, if not it checks if: 2). effect1 and effect2 are both stackable. If yes effect2 is not suppressed, if not it is, and the game tries to figure out which effect has bigger value and duration. Is an effect stackable or not, is checked in the following way: And the reason why Bloodlust stacks it is because it is explicitly marked as passive.

KHHHAAAAANNNNN!!!! x2 But Vielo Vidorio also shouldn't stack with Cat Flurry Attack and Swift Aim, because those are also buffs and also belong to the same StatAttackSpeedMult category. On the bring side all of the above do stack with Two-Handed Style. Despite it saying "+% attack speed" that one is checked separately. In any case you better check the buffs list on the character sheet for the suppressed effects.

Afaik speed bonuses from: Swift Strike, Frenzy, Outlander's Frenzy, Vielo Vidorio, Time Parasite and DAoM spell/potion do not stack. Only the highest applies, and others get suppressed.

It doesn't contribute to reaching zero recovery. If you have 30+45 frames attack+recovery durations, having 43 Dex will reduce them to 15 + 22.5 frames respectively. Because it contributes multiplicatively (with diminishing returns) you will need to have infinity Dex to reach 0-recovery. StatAttackSpeedMultiplier = 1 + (Dex - 10) / 33.3 RecoveryDuration = BaseRecoveryDuration / StatAttackSpeedMultiplier

Tbh, I like it that way. Giving them extra powers against undead, is usually balanced by the slight underpowerness against other enemy types. And every time you start a new RPG, you have to guess how many undeads from total there are going to be.

^ Shield bash from behind.

True that, it indeed depends on the playstyle and cc-available. Tbh from level 1 to 9, I have even used Psycho Shield only 3 times. Just quick-debuff (painful interdiction + asp.mark) -> cc -> and burst.

I was of the same opinion, before I tried it. I have started with Eder's mail armor, sabre and a light shield. The problem is that in act 1 (potd) enemies have quite high accuracy, and my extra deflection wasn't really solving the survivability problem. Charming, paralyzing the bigger threats, and dishing more damage via dual-wielding (and thus getting more focus, and paralyzing more often) turned out to be a better way. So I've just pumped the DR against low-hitting stuff like xaurips, but was cc'ing hard-hitting enemies.

Once you have taken Two-Weapon Fighting and durganized the weapons, you can take Vulnerable Attack without the recovery hit. Early in the game it will be. Late in the game, a durganized Blade of the Endless Paths (which has the speed enchant) will be ok. 1.5 x 1.15 x 1.15 x 1.2 = 2.38 (so zero-recovery in durganized plate) As for damage output, this spreadsheet might be found useful. (scroll to bottom for melee weapons; and to the right for DPS values) And if you will stumble upon pierce-immune enemy, you can switch to Llawran's Stick. I would recommend doing vice-versa. Starting with plate armor, blunting belt and dual-wielding sabres. Because you lack attack speed early on. And after durganization, switch to 1h+shield if you want.

I am just playing with one, and having a class build to post in my plan. First of all there are 3 questions you want to answer: - do I have only one cipher or two? - do I want to specialize him in crowd-control, spell-damage or both? - how much cc and debuffs my other party members have? (because if much, you can get away with way lower defenses) After much experimentation I've found that: - melee cipher is great because he can mental bind those who have engaged him in melee, which will result in that he losses less endurance, while also gaining more focus because his targets now have lowered deflection due to paralyze. - if you want to place your cipher into frontline, heavy armor is the best option. You need a lot of stats to empower his idps output for the focus gain, as well as int for any decently-lasting cc, leaving you with mediocre constitution. And low end-to-health coefficient will keep reminding of itself. - you can make your cipher versatile or specialize him (to avoid that strange feeling when you have high might but have to cast a cc-power that actually doesn't benefit from that stat at all). For weapon options, you have several optimal variants: - sabres - due to higher base damage which scales nicely with ciphers high damage coefficients; and because there decent choices like Purgatory and Bittercut. - estoc - due to 5 DR bypass and THF which allow to get away with lower might; and because there is Blade of the Endless Paths. - reach weapons - because you can take a lighter armor. [Llawran's Stick staff + leather armor + Vulnerable Attack] is basically the same as [botEP + plate armor]. Regarding specializations: - you can focus your cipher on crowd control, in which case might is not that important, but you still want to deal high weapon damage to get the focus. So for instance something like: [10/10/18/16/16/8] boreal dwarf with BotEP estoc and THF talent would be perfect. Or you could take pale elf for the extra DR and lower constitution a little more in exchange. - another cc-variant could be built around annihilation sabres: [8/10/18/19/15/8] boreal dwarf with dual Purgatory. You will get lots of focus on crits. - but if you would like to top the dps in your party, than there is no better thing than a detonate cipher with maxed might, like: [20/8/16/13/15/6] boreal dwarf with dual Bittercuts. But you'd better have another team member paralyzing/stunning his nearby enemies. Few considerations: - because base recovery is higher than base attack duration, it's highly advisable to reach zero rec. - because you can reliably reach zero-recovery only once you durganize your equipment, it's best to dual-wield prior to that point. - 1h sabre + (non-bashing) shield might also be an option (once your durganize everything). But you will have to wear leather armor. - gauntlets of swift action are a must.

Hmm, I understand your arguments. But still have a feeling that they can be worked-around: (at least with the help of other party members) - accuracy concern: the proc doesn't benefit from the weapon accuracy; but so does the druid's spell as well. And even through the spell gets a bonus +10 acc, this is compensated by rogue's higher base accuracy. - miss/graze concern: the rogue usually has quite a decent accuracy to eliminate misses altogether. And the party can help with the acc minus deflection difference even further, as they will have to setup for deathblows anyway (mass blinds, paralyzes, etc). - bouncing concern: yeah, there indeed has to be at least two targets for bouncing. But it's not necessary for them to stand behind the primary target. The tests has shown that they can stand anywhere and bounces could jump over at least 3m. But if there is only one tough enemy standing, yeah, it's better to just switch to other weapon, drawn in spring for instance. - enchant concern: yeah, this weapon cannot be durganized, yet the speed enchant compensates for that extra 15% ias and lower crit rate is not that critical on a rogue, if he is build around deathblows. Also the fact that it is of mythical quality, makes lack of lash a little bit less painful. Also I was little bit wrong about the hit count. The proc actually results in 9 hits: 1 main + 8 bounces. And... just tested it, it works with deathblows.

I like where it is going Especially with something like Going Between, Escape bonuses (and Displaced Image potion if they stack). I am 99% sure it would work. As it still is counted as an instance of AttackMelee. I've seen some xaurips... with staves (but iirc those were priests if that counts). P.S. Interesting can a riposte rogue be built into a decent dragon tank...

What exactly was wrong? And does it still benefit from Might and Intellect?

The new One Handed Style looks sweet. Especially getting the extra +0.5 from battle axe crits. But uhh, by having only one weapon equipped you miss the opportunity to deal double damage via Barbaric Blow and Heart of Fury. On the other hand, you can start with dw or 1h+shield, use the blow and fury, and than switch back to 1h.

Indeed it is. Hitting 4 enemies while duel-wielding, can result in 2x4 hits and 2x4x3 carnage hits. Sabres vs stunning Cladhaliath vs Unlabored Blade such a tough choice now. Just don't forget that Adept Evasion works only with attacks targeting rogue's reflex. And Riposte can proc only from melee incoming attacks. And... there are close to none melee attacks that target reflex.

A bit. Dex provide a slightly higher benefit to slower weapons, because of inter-action delay not being affected by it. Probably because TUB cannot be lashed, nor durganized. Also it doesn't quite fit under your conditions. Firebug procs on crit or hit. So there is really zero reasons to not take a small shield into the offhand, durganize it, and have higher speed and defenses. And of course going for TUB would salute having high might and getting scion of flame. Btw firebug from TUB is different from druid's spell. The proc has 40-50 base damage. While the spell 30-40 and +10 accuracy on cast. But yes, it is a viable choice. You can achieve zero-recovery with it, and the action duration (at 10 DEX) would be: 5 (delay) + 20 (attack) frames. Or 5 + 15.3 (20 DEX). Hence one attack every 0.67s. At 10% chance to trigger, we can expect one firebug every 6.7s. (on average) If there is more than 1 target (such that it could bounce) it's 8x45 burning damage (at 10 mig, and no scion of flame). So even if it's not a barb, it's still not bad. And... has anyone tested the interaction with deathblows?

1H is great if you want to pump your on-crit effects chance, especially if it is a stunning effect. Because it not only will indirectly increase your survivability but also the damage output (due to reduced deflection and cose it qualifies for deathblows now). Although 1H also has a con: they don't get an extra attack speed bonus like DW does. Achieving zero-recovery is harder. A speed enchant would help alleviate that, but unfortunately there is no weapon with both speed and stunning. So this path is only optimal if you are ok with fighting in just durganized robe and consuming one DAoM after another. As for DW.. there are plenty of options. Which one to choose depends on your party composition, and what exactly do you want from your rogue. The variants are: - v1. dual Drawn-in-spring. These are good due to the wounding property, the way it bypasses DR and benefits from Might, twice. Most effective on a rogue with pumped might attacking very high-DR enemies. Also do benefit from Flick of the Wrist. - v2. dual Purgatory. Higher base damage nicely scales with high damage coefficients. Good for a crit oriented build, which also can get away with lower might score. - v3. dual Bittercut. Most balanced and versatile option, due to dual damage type. And iirc they do work with Spirit of Decay. Also Vile Thorns do benefit from Deathblows and Deep Wounds. - v4. dual Cladhaliath sheningans, with stunning and vicious enchants. The idea is to have an extra affliction towards Deathblows, while not being hit by the enemy in meantime. It's bad. Can't durganize nor apply a lash to it. And those low-rate procs don't come close to compensating for that.

An alternative choice could be going for Scaen. His symbol deals pierce damage against deflection. And no dragon is immune to this damage type. Also it hobbles. Btw, there is also a Scroll of Insect Swarm. It deals damage totally comparable to that of Shinning Beacon, but it's piercing. And because it is a dot it benefits from x2 tick rate from Cleansing Flames. The only downside is that it targets Fort instead of Will, and has lower radius, although 31 INT helps alleviate that. Another scroll I've found useful is Tanglefoot. Huge radius, huge duration. Everyone who is hit by 3s tick is hobbled for 4s (base) or 8s (30 int) period. And because hobbled also reduces movement speed by 3, slow creatures like Adra Dragon are basically rooted in place for 40s. P.S. A random thought about a rogue (with deathblows and deep wounds) who can assist the priest when it comes to scrolls of insect swarm... and also benefit from CF's x2 tick rate.

Uhm, meant symbols (of Magran and Eothas).

It doesn't.But it works with fire sigils, storm of holy fire, searing seal, pillar of holy fire and fireballs. Also it works with curoc's brand and fire lash.