Dr <3

I have a dream: Durance staff soulbound item that progress linked to Durance own quest. Or at least that someone inverts crush-burn in burn-crush...

I would biclass Chanter + Chanter: double dragon trashed for the win!

Ok , chaincast shadowflsmes with daom is a fair point.

Returning to the trail, how are going your experiments ti demonstrate rogue's superiority in the DPS department? Btw i have always felt that the druid have very good cc spells actually. Returning storm is permastun and High DMG vs isolated targets, rentless storm is One of best cc of the game ( recidive stun in huge aoe), overwhelming wave have a base stun duration of 10 seconds more or less, and you have even your petrify spell that comes 1 level earlier than the wizards gaze of adragan. And all his spells actually do also pretty good dmg. Why you consider him inferior?

Shapeshifting rougue would solve the dabate about best single target DPS

Maybe also druid with charm Beast + shapeshift can do it

Drawn in spring + barricade do better than dual drawn in spring?

The balance is: cat base faster attack +/- equals boar wounding. Cat frenzy=boar regeneration=uselessness The real "problem" if you want to find one is that the other shapeshift form pale in comparison, expecially bear. Wolf and stag would be strong if the takedown/massacre would have been per encounter instead then per rest, but this is not going to be modifyed.

Also the mundane Trolls of Black Meadows are good targets for damage test, they are really good punchbags. I'm a huge fan of boar druid, but have to admit that probably late game cat is a bit better, at least because more hits means also more avenging storm procs, the wounding of the boar can't stand all that bonus damage. Edit: without counting the storm instead i never felt much difference between the two. And if there is a Priest to cast Champions boon around i bet that boar becomes better, never tested thougt

Some notes, i will write more detail when i have time: - you could optimize more your druid build taking away vulnerable attacks and superior deflection and adding gallant focus (+4 accuracy) and apprentice sneack attack. - you forgot to use " the other half" of druid: if you cast dangleman form before the fight for example you can reach good dr and immunity to Stuck, a simple avenging storm at the start of the fight will boost your survivability far over the rogue ( stunned enemies do not hit you); at the same time enable sneack attack ( 15% of 47-74 is about 10 DMG in mean, more than activating vulnerable attack) and finally solve your accuracy issue ( stunned enemies got -30 to deflecion so is not hard to crit anymore). But you can not try this in the tavern since everyone istanly dies thoug

Is a bit complex, this is true, but you don't need to understand 100% of mechanichs of the game in your Fiat run. Anyway some good fellows wrote a "noob guide", is around this forum https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/90032-a-beginners-guide-guide-edition-12/

Or if you want to do a full run just make a party with both rogue and druid and see wich you prefer over time ( since i'm quite sure druid will have better resaults you can even make rogue ad your main to have advantage of Story talents , like merciless hand ecc )

I guess about 2/3 of his ranger master ( for sure between 50% and 100% of ranger DMG)

Thks for the link. Also consider that now the "wildstrike bug" is fixed, but also without it the druid DMG remains outstanding

The problem is that i tend to do that super early or super late. When you are High lvl obviously you can just walk and kill, low level ( and soloing) some monsters are difficult to kill. Vampires for example have very High defences and lots of friends with them.

The difficult floors are Ogre and vampires, all the rest is pretty easy to steamroll ( exept the last lvl

Have you seen my post? Do you honestly think that you can obtain similar numbers with a rogue?

And i could have also casted some kind of affliction on them so also apprentice sneack attack would have kicked in. Side notes: - druid have shapeshift belt ad only worthful item - he is my main so he has merciless hand + gift from the machine - druid has both Fire and lighting elemental enanching talents - druit has all DMG enanching talents - with an alacrity potion you can even activate vulnerable attack and reach nontheless 0 recovery, but at this point 5 damage penetrazione more are a little deal

Here you can see my druid (not even 100% maxed) with avenging storm active, backed up with a simple priest (champios boon + devotions for the faithful + blessing) and a chanter (+ 25% fire lash). I dare you to obtain something even similar with a rogue. On a crit i got: - 113 perforation dmg + 120 burning dmg - 38 raw lash dmg (boar tusks) in 12 secs - 70 lighting dmg + 21 fire lash dmg for avenging storm proc So i see about 360 dmg on a critical hit, and i can hit like that for the whole 24 seconds, without need of affliction or whatsoever on my target (i junst need to buff myself) (It just 1 shotted every troll in black meadow)

This values ( 700+ DMG) are obtainable only with finishing blow against a very low Life target, so ok, you can consider them legit values, but they are a bit circumstantial and obviously largely overkill ( you will never be able to one shot a dragon at the start of the fight with that, you can just do """ even 1700 DMG """ to a target with less than 5% of health, so the real DMG that you can inflict is rarely more then 200 ( in best case scenario). Maybe also the 199 DMG reported by your link is from a finishing blow, but i doesn't have enough information to be sure about that. And you still have not considered all the possible buffs applied ecc. I'm still sure druid will have the upper hand in the same buffed condition. Moreover druid Just need a storm to start hitting stunned targets, for the rogue enable deathblows for the same duration is not equal easy. Anyway when i have time i will try an optimized DPS druid + party buff combo too se how High i can go.

The best one target Dps class at the moment is the shapeshift druid, wich can reach abut 200-230 DMG on hit with 0 recovery ( + a wounding lash if you are a boar). Nothing else come even close. Not true at all, mate. In the other thread, a guy posted a rogue 3 levels below max which showed a max per-hit damage of 200. Who knows if it was even optimized. It's not a stretch to say you could increase that at least a bit over lvl 14-16. Also, I don't know why you'd add driving flight to a single-target DPS comparison... there's no doubt the rogue is junk at anything other than single-target DPS, no need to prove it further. Do you have a link? i'm interested in see it. And it was solo or party? Because my "reference shapeshift druid" was thought to be in solo, whitout any kind of buff ( hi Priest! ). Actually i never tryed it with some buff from Priest ( Champions boon & devotions overall) + the lashing chant of a Chanter + the leeching chant of a second chanter would be hilarous.

What i like most about druids is that you have most of the best disable spells in the game ( storms, wave, petrify spells ecc) and you can become a wonderful DPS melee ( or even ranged with Rotten Skulls). This is expecially useful in solo play, since you are really autarchic: cast spell for disable, cast spell for aoe mass DMG, more disable, tranform and eat the survivors. In party someone else can take care of the disable part and you can already start eating. With maxed int the shapeshift can reach about 24 seconds wich is enough time to slain at least 4-5 mobs.

About weakening strykes: - they need a critical hit to happen, After that they target fortitude ( that is often the higher defence) - the critical hit can come also by " on hit triggered spells" , like the blind from erlyn jacket ( enemy hit you--> blind triggers--> if you get a crit game Rolls for weakening strykes --> you can find anche enemy that is dazed, blinded and weakened in 1 shot) - same goes also for binding Rope and similar items - even resonant touch Rolls for graze/hit/crit when you apply a resonance counter. Also that have a chance to trigger weakening strykes. - weakened is a good affliction overall, but for this build not superuseful ( it helps a little with force of anguish and rooting pain) - this is all interesting for research, but in actual game i found anyway that looped Rope > binding Rope ; Ryona brestplate/ he carry many scars >> erlyn jacket

May be true, but you forgot some major things:- arquebus ranger is the worst DPS ranged ranger, since the arrival of twin arrows - driving flight should be included, or at least you should be aware that ranger do good dmg also to some secondarly target, rogue not - the pet DMG is not considered, and that is quite huge at the moment ( i'd say about 2/3 of the ranger DMG) The best one target Dps class at the moment is the shapeshift druid, wich can reach abut 200-230 DMG on hit with 0 recovery ( + a wounding lash if you are a boar). Nothing else come even close. Compared to both the rogue come out ad a loser, since he - do less dmg - Have less survivability compared to ranger (have to go melee) - if compared to druid doesn't have all the spells About aoe DPS the game is between wiz, druid, Priest , Chanter, barbarian. Barbarian can reach the max " Spike " of DMG with heart of fury, Chanter potentially the most aoe DMG in long term with minimal effort, casters depends on the build.

Still testing things, i just wanted to share a bunch of findings with you: - Savage attack DOES NOT work with standard retaliation, flame shield retaliation, Fire godlike racial retaliation and even rooting pain so is discarded for the build - Vulnerable attack DOES work with standard retaliation, flame shield retaliation, Fire godlike racial retaliation, DOES NOT work for rooting pain - vulnerabile attack and cautious can be active at the same time - Savage attack and cautious attack are mutually exclusive - cautious attack overlap the deflecion part of duality of mortal presence. So you can take both, cautious attack for deflecion, duality of mortal precence for fortitude, reflex, will - crucicible of suffering bonus (+10 to all' def) stack with both cautious attack and duality of mortal presence - vigorous defence ( from ryona brestplate) stacks with everything discussed so far More things are coming