Nur Ab Sal

I agree - the Republic was crippled by the Great Sith War and later mandalorian threat. Revan only sealed it's fate. And Jedi were terribly weakened by Exar Kun's great hunt... I mean this guy almost accomplished what was later Palpatine's main goal. Add to this fact that some of his apprentices and assassins escaped Republic's justice and developed (probably) into next generation of sith lords who emerged after Star Forge junk exploded. And there is also Krath...

Forgive us o mighty King & Queen of RPG! Will you spare our lives? hehe

Huh?

You know my "vrook theory" is just another gag made for fun and if you are so unintelligent that you can't see this then I can understand why you are able to invent stupid theories based on some full of EU bugs canadian game. Educate yourself in star wars sonny (begin with those 100 novels then 200 comic books etc) and then you will maybe be a match for me. For now you're just another agressive amateur who should be set straight by the real star wars experts.

I understand your grief but everything must be coherent in SW and if TOTJ was earlier bioewaree should respect its vision of star wars.... BECOUSE George Lucas himself decided about these contradictions. And these are the movies. And KOTOR is just another game made NOT by Lucas but by some uneducated canadian lackeys. Not to mention that TOTJ was created also by Lucas. Are you so lazy that you didn't read previous posts in this thread? How many times do I have to tell that TOTJ is more official that most of EU novels?

Sio Bibble comes from backwater planet. He probably doesn't know galactic history well

The Old Republic existed for 25000 years in movies too. Obi-Wan said in ANH that jedi served Republic for 1000 generations so it would be about 25000 years. Palpatine intentionally said this 1000 bug - but he's a deceptive sith, don't trust him...

....and clone wars comics have the same importance as clone wars novels.

"Darth Riven" is a production of another bunch of lazy guys: WOTC. These company invented Riven in the beginning of their activity in SW. It was a bug - one of many they have made. So don't try to defend KOTOR by giving an example of another bug made by another stupid company! Maybe you've heard of a little thing called "tempest feud" the most pathetic RPG scenario ever? WOTC.... The fact that WOTC devs were too lazy to explore EU and created some darth doesn't mean that bioeware is innocent. Besides Riven rapes also SW timeline. 30.000 years ago there were no dark lords. Dark Lords appeared after Great Schism of the Force 20000 years ago. Another mistake that strikes into real fans... "Living Force" campaign that introduced Riven is a real sh..t opinions are the same. This is what KOTOR says. And I see obvious lack of originality if they are the same as TIEs. KOTOR starships suck. Leviathan isn't so bad. I can live with him. But I can't stand republic cruisers copied from TPM republic cruisers... Ghost of Anakin: yes comics generally are less important that books. But GL is a god-creator of SW and if he participated in TOTJ production that means that TOTJ are somehow more important that Barbara Hambly's terrible novels...

Obi-Wan was one of best warriors of his times - just look at his exploits during Clone Wars. He was great strategist and future rebel commanders have great respect toward him.

No these are new ones developed by bioware. And you can still buy Tales of the Jedi on Amazon.

Yes, KOTOR indeed looks like it takes place 300-400 years before OT. And Mandalorians were instant problem until Count Dooku exterminated them during the battle of Galidraan, 48 years before EIV New Hope.

True KOTOR at least is able to show most basic ideals of SW. But still don't forget that GL really participated in creating TOTJ and so it is also his vision of ancient star wars that had been ignored by bioware. While I can tolerate story of Revan I can't tolerate obvious copying of movies (sith fighters ehhhh...) and ignoring TOTJ. To me all lore of ancient jedi is in how they differ from Mace Windu and Yoda and yet how they are similar. I liked the vision of ancient jedi as independent wanderers similar to medieval samurai and KOTOR portraited them the same as prequels (strong unified order that controls jedi strictly). Despite I like prequel vision of jedi too. TOTJ at least gives me feel that jedi who lived 4000 years ago were different.

Bioware got the project from Lucasarts in July 2000. KOTOR gone gold July 2003. And your explanation of origins of title darth is good but "Bane of the Sith" did it in more exciting way. That's why I'm pissed of that it was ignored (like plenty of other things)

I dislike KOTOR's errors but I like the game. I love ancient era so I'll always bash lazy devs who cannot show that they respect EU. Reborn emperor is another thing similar to KOTOR that destroys EU coherency.

"Bane of the Sith" explains how title "darth" appeared. It is bioware's laziness that they didn't make any effort to read this 6-page long shortstory and adapt KOTOR to EU. Why are you trying to excuse their slackness? Yes it could be explained the way you say, but it STILL SUCKS - if we have to invent such things like you make, only becouse morons that were responsible for the storyline were just too lazy to read stuff related to KOTOR times. And you know how long they were doing the storyline? 3 damn years. Enough time to explore this part of star wars and avoid any mistakes I guess.

GL accepts these things only in theory. In fact clerks of Lucas Licensing oversee everything. He is too busy I guess. And some parts of his empire are completely or half-independent. Since Sue Rostoni and other Lucas licensing clerks are very busy in overseeing those 12-30 novels that Lucasbooks publish a year they have simply no time in controlling Lucasarts and these guys do whatever they want. And for KOTOR's tragedy even Lucasarts wasn't involved in the project heavily. All content, storyline, technology, dialogs, concept art were made by bioware and even LA that always treated EU frivously didn't oversee Bioware! If at least one of Lucas Licensing redactors would be involved, then we wouldn't have all those EU errors and contradictions. Besides to me Bioware devs are just lazy. First they copied storyline and some NPCs almost DIRECTLY from Neverwinter Nights. Second they didn't evev read those few sources about ancient era. "Tales of the Jedi Companion" has 176 pages. Was is sooo difficult to read it and adapt KOTOR so it could be correct?

GL almost never advices writers and creators of EU. Writers like Zahn or others deal with Lucas Licensing clerks like Sue Rostoni. Lucas probably doesn't know about 90% of things that comprises EU. the example of TOTJ is exceptional becouse Lucas was involved in it by himself. Even Thrawn Trilogy was checked by Lucas Licensing not by Lucas! To me fact that EU must be coherent is obvious. If Star Wars as a whole (movies+EU) presents one vision of some fictional universe than all elements like books and games must not contradict each other. Otherwise Star Wars will convert into nonsense instead being convincing vision of some far galaxy. Besides vulgar copy of master Yoda is clear evidence of devs' lack of originality. the ancient era was time of low-tech and there weren't any "cybernetic implants" 4000 years ago. Not to mention that there was no jedi council 4000 years ago - instead great convocations were deciding about order's most important things. One master could train more than one apprentice. Jedi could marry and love. And title 'darth" appeared 3000 years later. And so on...

GL accepted entire content of TOTJ. Besides the most basic rule of EU is that material that is created later cannot contradict material that was created earlier. KOTOR contradicts rest of EU in many things becouse of the fact that Lucas Licensing wasn't interested in any form of control over Bioware. Either discussion with you is pointless. Only total idiot would say that EU products like Shatterpoint or Traitor or Zahn novels "are very poorly written". Only 30% of sw novels is real sh.. not to mention wonderful dark horse comics. Besides we aren't discussing how good EU products are or not. We are discussing if TOTJ is a direct vision of GL or not. And I have arguments that yes although GL didn't create TOTJ directly, he had big participation in it and was more involved in it than in any other EU product. Therefore your argumentation is pointless. To me what KOTOR presents is a poor man's copy of GL movies and nothing original. But have it your way.

Thrawn Trilogy is excellent and some of NJO stuff also

Your analysis is wrong . If GL participated himself in creation of TOTJ that's mean that TOTJ are more official that rest of EU. The fact that most of EU material has little common with films has nothing to do with it. Most of EU material was created without GL's interference. TOTJ was. I am under impression that you didn't read my post at all becouse your arguments are completely innacurate.

George Lucas had very big part in creating background of the Tales of the Jedi. He also accepted key characters of the series like Nomi Sunrider and Exar Kun. In interview for Dark Horse Kevin Anderson when asked about TOTJ said this: "Gilman: The Sith are a major topic of your comic work. Where did the Sith come from, creatively? Anderson: George Lucas. When I sent in the proposal for Exar Kun in my Jedi Academy Trilogy, I proposed that he'd either be the spirit of a Dark Jedi or a Dark Lord of the Sith... whichever was preferable -- Darth Vader is referred to as a Dark Lord of the Sith in Star Wars. Lucas said to make him a Dark Lord of the Sith; so then I had to ask what a Dark Lord of the Sith is. Tom Veitch and I gave him a two-page questionnaire about what Dark Lords of the Sith can or can't do and Lucas defined all the parameters for us." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also another evidence comes from "Fall of the Sith Empire" issue #1. In the back of the comic there is Q&A section. One of fans doesn't agree with TOTJ vision of the Sith and Dark Horse makes this statement: "Sorry you don't like the framework of the Sith and the Dark Jedi, but that background came directly to us from George Lucas. We're following his guidelines and building a story within the parameters he himself laid down." There are other evidences of GL's participation in TOTJ but these two are sufficient. So as you see, fools who say that KOTOR can piss on EU are wrong. Let's say that Bioware's vision of ancient galaxy sucks in comparison to excellent vision of Anderson, Veitch and Lucas (and others). Devs were too lazy to show ancient galaxy the same way and in contradiction to others the fact that KOTOR is an excellent RPG doesn't cloud my judgement. I would say that Tales of the Jedi are more official that the rest of EU. 90% of EU was created without GL's interference, so there is also a question if TOTJ comics are EU or something bigger...

You'll see, Master Vrook

I think that KOTOR series should introduce new planets instead of showing us what we already know. That's why I'm so glad that devs invented Taris, Manaan and Telos. Ancient Star Wars must differ from what we've seen in the movies -this means different clothes, different jedi, different planets, different architecture. To me showing Coruscant the same way as GL did in prequels is pathetic. So it's better to show something new that will become trademark of KOTOR - like Taris. Maybe I'm too complicated, since most gamers don't care about realistic approach to the era. It wouldn't be much concern to me too, if not the fact that full of EU bugs KOTOR isn't just another video game that will be forgotten. It's popularity is huge and becouse of it - also twisted vision of the era. I imagine your reaction to these heresies, you non-sw amateurs, hyhy...

Yeah your theory is a hoax cause you really have no evidence to make such speculations. And since KOTOR belongs to EU it's a normal thing that I'm "trashing" it with EU - maybe it's a weird thing for amateurs like you who don't care if SW Universe sticks together and has any sense...