Nur Ab Sal

Calm yourself I like KOTOR I'm just not blind to its flaws and want KOTOR to be even better. Besides I believe that TSL will beat KOTOR in every cathegory becouse at last real guys are in charge. And at last our hero will be ordinary jedi (Gallo wanted to continue DJ Revan's crappy story, but fortunately Lucasfilm forbidden that - these guys know what stinks)

In such giant project as KOTOR there must be mistakes. That's why they should one year later release official expansion that would fix all bugs and flaws and add 2-3 more planets. KOTOR 2 should be released in 2007-2008

Agreed. KOTOR is a slightly different universe and has little common with reality of the ancient times... it's just a game and thus cannot be treated the same as content of books, comics, movies etc.

Hyhy possible scenario.

What are you talking about? Vader WAS a Dark Lord (even more legal that youngster DJ Revan who wasn't any heir to sith tradions, just simple darksider with dreams who said that he is dark lord) Besides DJ Revan didn't kill many jedis. In fact he couldn't handle Bastila strike team and watched how she was slaining his guards... O man just becouse some devs invented third quality character for some game and presented him as a superman and genius it doesn't mean that it's true. They did it to tickle your ego and millions of other gamers. Simple manipulation. DJ Revan is dull and bad composed character and really compare him to Vader, central character of Star Wars... I was hoping to play ordinary jedi of the ancient times whom I'll be able to develop into an experienced warrior. And devs kicked me with that incredibly stupid/idiotic story of a brainwashed dark lord that becomes a hero in a quest copied from neverwinter nights. PATHETIC I think that in case of dark side ending, Bastila would remove DJ Revan in a few years. DJ Revan held his superiority over her only becouse he was older and more experienced (just like Dooku and Anakin - excellent comparison hehe) and she was just a snotty teenager. Besides to me comparing DJ Revan to Vader is as stupid as comparing Kyle Katarn to Luke Skywalker

Me too

Temples multiplied power of Exar. that's why he was able to survive the jedi assault on Yavin (as a spirit though) I see that most of you don't get what nature had the standoff between Exar and Jedi Order. Exar didn't fight in a lightsaber combat. It was his raw power of the force against joined power of all the jedi. I don't see anything impossible in this. Hard to imagine and spectacular but not impossible. Besides there is Naga Sadow who was as powerful as Exar Kun and blew up Denarii Nova system with his magic. Vader is a modern type of Sith. Exar and Naga are ancient sith and ancient sith is more a magician than a warrior. Revan was good strategist but it is the power of the force that counts among force users. Revan wasn't strong if he let himself be almost killed by one shot and later brainwashed. If he would be so strong he could use sith magic that only the strongest sith can use... Vader would be a great magician but in his times sith magic was all but forgotten. So he remained a super warrior

Jedi vs Exar standoff had a nature of psionic assault. Exar tried to wipe them out with powerful energies created by his sith magic and jedi united by Nomi Sunrider's battle meditation repelled this attack and turn it back on Exar... Agreed.

It depends if you accept Star Wars as a whole (movies+EU) or only movies and EU is not important for you. For your information: when Kevin Anderson was creating Exar Kun he had to consult this with George Lucas who wanted to have Vader's equivalent of the ancient times. Anderson got a list of things that dark lords can and can't do. And then he showed Exar Kun and his powers according to GL's vision. Besides Gl later based his Darth Maul on Exar Kun.

Yeah terrible. I was expecting something similar to Sith War. After KOTOR my opinion about Bioware's creativity was shattered forever.

OK don't get mad. I know you made it for fun. Not my fault that I have prejudices against Revan. And talking about such duel: hard to tell becouse I don't know how many midichlorians Revan had. But on the other hand Revan almost died when Malak attacked his bridge while Vader felt into molten lava and survived - and was able to exterminate most powerful jedi of his times - like dark woman or others. This is something. I'm sure that Vader would never let himself to be manipulated like Revan. And there another issue: comparing sith lords from movies, books and games is inadequate. It took only one shot to eliminate Revan (while Bastila who was nearby wasn't even scratched) and he's the only dark lord that has ever been brainwashed by jedi. It took one extremely powerful but unexperienced Jedi to dispatch Vader. It took 20.000 jedi to destroy Exar Kun (and they barely SURVIVED) Anyway I think that eventually Exar Kun would kill them both.

Well said!

Palpatine would have different opinion

Let's say that overall storyline and EU subtleties should be handled by Lucasarts. Cutscenes by Industrial Light and Magic cause battles in KOTOR look poor. Rest by Bioware or Obsidian Anyway LA is most responsible for lack of ancient climate in KOTOR. They weren't interested in controlling Bioware and advising them. And it wasn't a problem to hire previous TOTJ team - Gossett and Carrrasco to make concept art and graphic issues. Kevin Anderson could also be hired. This guy writes ALL the time for hire and he for sure could find time to work over KOTOR if asked. I can blame Bioware only for mindless copying of Neverwinter Nights. But of course I don't forget how groundbreaking is their graphics, animation, NPC development etc these things make KOTOR great.

Hahahahahaha. :D

I have already explained my attitude toward pathetic bioware creature called "Revan" (sounds like some DJ...) so why should I waste my keyboard again? Comparing him to a legend that is Darth Vader is not necessary. Vader would kill DJ Revan with bare hands.

What purpose is in a discussion with a simple monkey... Advice from a friend: try to ignore some things <_<

True but making KOTOR looking more ancient isn't a big problem: you just have to inspire your concept art by TOTJ comics, ancient empires like Mesopotamy or Mayans etc instead of copying yoda and tie fighters and movies in general. Till KOTOR star wars ancient era had its own climate similar and yet different to the movies, now we have just another clone of Lucas Trilogy. If Gossett and Carrrasco made such superb work in showing really ancient climate and later JA devs showed Korriban in an excellent way (Korriban level in JA is as big as Korriban in KOTOR by the way) - it is the same as in the comics and books. All those marvelous tombs and halls. I was stunned by the look of Korriban in JA and by the preciseness of all details. I think that bioware devs just didn't get the climate of star wars ancient era. They had to make a game for Lucasarts and they did it but without any subtleties. I hope that KOTOR 3 will be made by Lucasarts only. I'm currently making a private list of all KOTOR flaws. I'll add your observation to it

Sounds like Hitler's talk.

Exactly! A cutscene would just be fine! In Jedi Academy during your first encounter with Tavion there is no fight, there is a cutscene in which Tavion stun you and Katarn. Devs from Raven Software knew very well that there was no sense to put a real fight into this part of JA cause Kyle and Jaden would quickly dispatch Tavion. And this seems more reasonable than manipulated Malak duel. This is another example of how some things work better in JA than in KOTOR (just look at ghost of Marka Ragnos he really looks ANCIENT while bioware-made Ajunta Pall who lived 15000 years before Bastila looks painfully modern)

ANYTHING about Revan (it's impossible but dream is a dream).

Silly to silly minds. In pen&paper RPG such situation would be random. And I can't understand how I can loose with Malak if Revan is stronger and more powerful? Malak didn't even scratch me and yet devs forced his victory. This is cheating. This is clear fault of those who were responsible for the script. I would change the storyline into something else, more complicated than just starmap run filled with subquests. I'm not saying that video games can have randomized storyline comparable to classic paper RPG but KOTOR could be a little more complicated and many things could be added. I just feel that something is missing in the storyline. Besides Leviathan is really painfully linear. Many outcomes could be set instead of one.

Whoa no offense I just had to give some example and decided that it will be you.

Modernity is a big issue in SW and to be honest - it's hard to show ancient galaxy and still be reliable. Christian Gossett when was creating first visions of that era solved this problem by making lightsabers, starships and costumes to look more ancient and for example lightsabers had ornaments like medieval katanas or arabian swords... starships had strange and peculiar , lo-tech design and so on. It all about aesthetics. If devs would put more effort they could go Gosset's path and make KOTOR really look ancient. Nobody says to really meditate what was technology level 4000 years before Vader. Since Star Wars isn't scientific blurb like Star Trek - only uses science as a decoration, all scientific issue is reduced to aesthetic look. I think that showing Gosset's fantasy climate in KOTOR was possible but someone was just afraid to ignore Lucas movies. A pity becouse endless copying of Star Wars movies hurt both games and movies. (I have posted a huge gallery of images taken from Tales of the Jedi - all who are interested not only in bashing me for my heresies may view it in this thread: Planet Speculation look at one of the last posts on page - becouse on this page are other galleries as well)

Interesting topic but it's too late for such improvements. Game is in fact almost ready.