Nur Ab Sal

Yeah I suppose your're right - someone who enjoys SW is automatically a fan but he should at least know something about this universe. Don't get me wrongo but mostly I spend my time on SW boards and there people know everything in details so when I later post in forum like this I still have specific attitude (that is negative in your eyes). It is just kinda stupid that people neglect deeper knowledge about SW and say that they don't need it. If it was created it has some meaning becouse of this. I'm sensitive to Revan-related topics since there were idiotic topics about Revan some time ago so when I saw yours I thought "Oh no the next oneee" Sorry but I can't stand all that Revan talk About Bastila: when I read spoilers I was glad that at last SW will have powerful female character - not of second importance like Mara Jade or Aayla Secura but real important figure. And in game devs butchered that excellent character by portraiting her as weak, undecisive and corrupted little girl. And who appeared instead of her in the first place? Revan the brainwashed macho, who of course, saved silly Bastila from clutches of another powerful male, Malak.Bastila is constantly male-dominated and devs implanted her all stereotypical female defects, only to show how weak she is, in comparison to Revan. Yuck. Bastila could become a cult hero like Luke Skywalker, Kyle Katarn or Obi-Wan and instead she was broken forever. That is sad. You may view my posts as a flame war but I think that it was just a good discussion and nothing wrong with that. At least I forced people to think and invent wise arguments. This is positive, admit it.

This game could be about anything. This game could be set in Skywalker times. Or it could be with Bastila Shan as a main hero that struggles with herself and grows in force (like Kyle in Jedi Outcast or Windu in Shatterpoint). There are plenty of ideas and plots you can use in such game.Revan isn't neccessary to make such game. I'm sorry but after reading all brilliant SW novels like Thrawn Trilogy or NJO stuff or Shatterpoint, Revan plot would be also dull and schematic to you. As I said before my goal isn't destroying Revan or something like that, and "little hateful man" I am most certain not. You can call Patrick Buchanan or Saddam with that insult. the fact that I don't like some pixelated steroid brainwashed hero means in fact nothing. Quarrel is also a form of discussion and I have right to defend my point of view - in that case my dislike toward Revan It's about time someone set you amateurs straight!

Big Thanks to Obsidian's CEO! Becouse of personal reasons I'm glad that PC version will be released in february but nice word of explanation is always welcomed. Do we need any other evidence that Obsidian is very OK? Lucasarts didn't give us any word and that's the difference between RPG living legends and Luca$arts.

Thanks to Anakin/Vader we have a New Jedi Era today plus Unified Force theory and other stuff. It is only him that did it. And by the way: this game doesn't belong to Revan, but to Lucasarts. Revan is only a failed idea that poisoned the game.

Voice acting was terrible in NWN but yeah I remember that Maugrim laughed once or twice.

Really? That's strange cause obsidian forum system accepted them. It must be some error on their side.

Topic is clear. Everyone who played both games (Neverwinter Nights and KOTOR) can see that KOTOR is, in respect of storyline, just a clone of NWN. The same scheme (main hero looks for some ancient artifacts - words of power=starmap) the same anti-feminine scheme of strongwilled female that will be corrupted (Bastila=Aribeth) and saved by male player. The same travelling scheme (four places in which you have to solve some quests to obtain words or starmap). The same outcome (you can kill your former chief or save her and later take on main looser) and so on. Particularly interesting is figure of main villain that threats the nice heroes. Similarities between Malak and Maugrim are so striking that it's hard to believe that Bioware could be so little original and showed so little invention And here's the chart of striking similarities between Malak and Maugrim: - their names are almost the same - Malak and Maugrim - their physical look is very similar like they were brothers - their clothes are also in the same style - their role in devouring and corrupting game's female heroine is the same - their end is the same - they're both insane kooks - your first encounter with them always ends with your defeat Since I wasn't present on bioware forums I have no idea if this topic is actualy original (everyone who's intelligent figured this similarities long time ago) if so I'm deeply sorry! Check out the pictures below: maugrim_korothir.bmp m2.bmp malak_healthy.bmp

Member of Farrakhan's Nation of Islam.

No no no. If Revan couldn't stop Jedi from killing his bodyguards he would not stop them from killing him as well. Besides your explanation is just as I predicted: unconvincing. I'm talikng about BLAST RADIUS in which destruction is on the same level. If Bastila was in that blast radius she should suffer same as Revan. This was not sniper shot from rifle it was giant artillery shot and should kill her as well. Besides Revan in game doesn't have any wounds that he should have if he get entire energy of shot on him and protected Bastila as you're trying to prove. This cannot be explain boys! This is bug!

Hmm this something I don't doubt. If Anakin survived heat of molten lava and it only made him stronger he would survive turbolaser shot as well. He was an avatar of force, he was force itself. Revan was just common forceusing grunt you can compare him to Katarn or Mace Windu, this his class. Besides he couldn't handle jedi strike team - well Vader would kill Bratstila and her henchmen in fifty seconds and let's make it clear that he would anticipate Malak's betrayal and his shot in the back - being ultrasensitive like Vader let you anticipate things while Revan only could use simple tricks. Revan's just minor military dictator and thus no one to me. Blast radius from turbolaser is quite big so explain this little secret: Bastila was fighting with Revan and was maybe 2 meters distant from him so how it happened that perfect Revan was killed and Bastrila didn't get even small scratch? Hell she was perfectly healthy and logic says that she should die as well if she was in the same blast radius as Revan. Soo it seems that hated by so many Bastila is stronger than Revan if he was almost killed and she just drag him, gave him part of her lifeforce and turbolaser didn't affect her in any way. Superwoman? I bet that you will not find good reason for that. Another devs' bug (like all Revan) Besides real Dark Lord would earlier anticipate that shot - like jedi flying aces can anticipate their enemies fire and avoid it in the battle (anakin, luke etc) All I'm trying to do is prove that Revan isn't some stupid Sithari and he isn't special. I'm getting mad when some folks start to compare Revan to Luke Skywalker and wonder if he could kill him. Revan that, Revan those, ohhh he's so special and super and and and. Revan is a kitsch.Revan is just an empty puppet created for players so they could get into game's storyline. I have a particular dislike to this person becouse I don't like the whole idea with mindflashback and making my hero some special and brainwashed preparate. The whole storyline of KOTOR disappointed me badly and I was expecting something better - maybe becouse I was comparing it with my favourite SW books - Thrawn Trilogy, Edge of Victory, TUF and so on. After Taris storyline sucked (escpecially that whole starmap run is a copy of neverwinter nights words of power run) and I would set things different. Anyway Baldur's Gate still is far better than KOTOR. By creating Revan devs just manipulated our ego by showing our avatar as a fallen superman. Unified Force Theory is one of most interesting things I have ever heard, so yes, I guess I believe in it.

Sweet dreams.

F........k? New episodes are far better than old obsolete trilogy worshipped by grumpy men. Count Dooku and Young Palpatine are more interesting than anyone in your vaunted old trilogy.

Agreed! I have already told everything and there's no need to repeat that endlessly. If someone will feel that he want to accept my dark teachings he will just accept....

Well it wasn't my intention.

I see, so what does this mean: ?? I don't want to 'absorb' that 'fact' because simply I don't agree, sheesh. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is fact cause Revan is just weak amateur if you had any knowledge about other sith lords you could make comparison like me.

Simple presentation of facts doesn't mean forcing anyone into anything. Accept my arguments or not the choice is yours. To me simple logic says that if KOTOR descends from EU it should be rated by EU standards and guys who just came along with the game and know nothing about SW subtleties should be quiet and learn something instead of bashing everyone with their ignorance.

Yeah everything depends from point of view. To me movies and EU are one being and if you accept only movies than you shouldn't discuss KOTOR as well. Knowing every single thing from SW makes you more a fan than others cause this means that you're really living in the SW universe: think, read books and comics etc. doing nothing on the other hand makes a worse category of a fan I don't like everything in EU but I like to observe how SW grow. So I have my favourites and dislikes. Revan is one of them.

The history after Anakin death is still under development so how do you know what implications it will have in a 1000 year scale? After Ruusan Sith were driven to extinction and only Bane survived. Jedi emerged victiorious but this victoy was their undoing. Bane formed new type of sith and after 1000 years palpatine appeared - Bane's heir... This argument is not correct sorry. We'll have yet to wait to see what Anakin's sacrifice will mean in the future. Besides Yuthura could be wrong and said incorrect version of prophecy. Like Aztecs believed that Cortez was their savior Quetzalcoatl and later it was revealed that their prophecy was wrong to me Anakin's story fits better to tale of Sithari than some Revan: -he was created by the Force abd this is divine and perfect birth -he had supernatural abilities while Revan was ordinary forceusing grunt -he changed the course of sith history: thanks to him Sith triumphed for the first time in galactic history. Even great Exar Kun didn't accomplish that. -he bringed force to balance first by destryoing the rotten republic and stagnated jedi order later by destroying madman palpatine And what Revan accomplished? Conquered Bastila's heart, killed silly Malak and secured starforge piece of junk (in dark path) or in the light path become an enforcer of jedi council and kicked sith ass like many before him. Allegedly last Dark Lord Anakin isn't. Currently last Dark Lord was Kyp Durron who later resigned and decided that he prefers jedi way. Lord Nyax who appeared about 22 years after ROTJ wasn't considered as a Dark Lord cause he was a genetic homunculus created in Bluenek Section Laboratory in underground Coruscant and he couldn't even speak and write. He was destroyed by jedi Tahiri so Kyp Durron seems to be the last of Dark Lords but now he's a Jedi Master. There's nothing to discuss about. Anakin may be the Sithari or not but he's closest to this term. Forget about Revan guys I know that you identify yourselves with him (he's our avatar in the game after all) but he isn't a sithari for certain. Only skilled fallen jedi and nothing more.

You know to be "perfect being" you must be at least as powerful as Anakin Skywalker and Exar Kun. Revan is a **** and absorb this fact into yourself. Anakin fallen into lava and should die in a second. Yet pure force that was in him and created him, let him survive. And later despite this near-death he was able to become the most feared sith lord ever who exterminated all jedi. Revan became a plant becouse Malak fired onto his flagship. Silly question but why Bastila survived unscatched this shot? She was near mighty Revan and should die. Is Bastila more powerful than Revan or maybe is she a Sithari too? Hahahahaha.... Prophecies are unclear and his one is quoted by a formet twilek stripper. It may have some obscurities but it fits perfectly in Anakin's role in bringing force to balance and ultimate sith triumph. Anakin was created by pure force and such supernatural birth means that he may be a sithari. The fact that you know only KOTOR and watched the movies doesn't mean that you know SW. Lucasfilm and Lucas were saying many times that they always intended to make Star Wars as a well-suit compilation of books, comics, movies<, gamesand other stuff. EU is as important as movies.Accept it. It is obvious that devs were influenced by TPM "choosen one" talk and so on. They for certain watched the prequels like us all and decided to use this prophecy that Quigon talked about. Prophecies are usually ancient and Sithari prophecy may have been later absorbed by the jedi-like the sith absorbed many jedi things. Besides you're confusing things. There are two paths and only one is true. Revan destroyed not all sith in light path cause that's impossible and even if so what? How could hew empower them by slaining them? Sithari should have some special powers and bring new force features, good-like abilities etc. Revan is a looser who only can relatively well fight and nothing more. While ancient sith lords were capable of much more. Educate yourself. Balance is one. Light and Dark are equally powerful and this is natural order of universe. Sith say that dark side is stronger than the light but tha't a lie. Every sun casts a shadows and in the night even a little flame is well visible. GL invented the force by relying on Taoism and Jing/Jang symbol symblizes also the Force (Jing/Jang you have two elements dark and light that are balanced perfectly) every one who disturbes the balance is punished by the Force becouse he breaks natural order. Clear? To me Revan is too weak and besides what effect his quest has? Sith existed for 3000 years after him and they were on the same position as before him. He didn't change the course of Sith History. Well Anakin Skywalker certainly changed...

Force may be channeled through breeding but Force itself is mystical power that balances the Universe. It can choose someone to sensitive to it. So bloodlines are only one way to get the force. Love issue is simple. Not in all times jedi weren't allowed to love and in KOTOR times according to EU material jedi were allowed to marry - like nomi sunrider or Sylvar. Devs screwed things and mixed Eras. They actually showed us jedi ethics from Episode I TPM when order was rotten. I wouldn't believe in all what video game tells you cause more important are official EU sources. Remember about it non-fans.

I hope that's Vrook. I HATE him. I desired to kill him in KOTOR.

That's becouse I like all such ideas-idea that young teenage girl that loves flowers can change course of battle is brilliant, just like Exar's ultra-powerful and semi-good magic. Without them Star Wars would be just next Star Trek. And yeah this is a game only but a game set in Star Wars and comprising a big part of EU. So it must be EU correct and accept it.

When someone tries to kill you all available methods can be viewed as selfdefence. Cooking someone with lightning or even choke him doesn't make you a darksider. In JA especially during Korriban battle jedi normally use such things and they are still jedi. As Vergere said to Jacen: "Force has no sides. Only dark side that exists is in your heart young man. Your intentions and feelings make you good or evil." So lightsider can use offensive aspects of the force as well but in selfdefence (ex. when he is attacked by sith assassins) and that doesn't mean dark side. Read "Final Prophecy" people and "Unifying Force" as well and you will understand that such vision of the force is already obsolete. Under Vergere's influence Jacen and even Luke revised their jedi superstitions.

You have no idea what you are talking about fool. KOTOR would have never been created if not EU comics that fascinated Mike Gallo. He could set this game in Skywalker times but thanks to all that Exar Kun stuff you have such fine game. Freezing 1000 jedi is quite possible if you have big number of midichlorians and Exar had est. 27000 midichlorians. So don't babble that EU that or EU those. Thanks to EU you have this game and besides I consider EU heroes like ExarKun, Corran Horn or Kyle Katarn as interesting as movie characters. There are many stupid things in the movies and many stupid things in EU but there are also brilliant ideas. Besides an idea that one snotty girl can affect entire armies and battlefleets can be viewed as foolish as an idea that Dark Lord Exar can freeze the entire galactic senate. Personally I rate such ideas very high cause they are changing Star Wars into such magical and fascinating place. And if you don't like it GET LOST Heh thanks for support pal.

Yeah sure but Palpatine had clones and reborn very quickly. I'm not going to discuss. It is obvious to anyone who knows SW that there were far more powerful force-users than some "Revan" who is genderless,raceless and faceless dumbass and in fact our avatar only not a real hero. You can't compare third-quality character from some game that people will forget in next few years with real dark lords from books,movies and comics. Revan&Malak were amateurs. Loosers relied on star forge junk while Palpatine (aside of having death stars) was able to unleash energies on cosmic scale (dark empire) . The power of a Dark Lord is measured not by a stupid look (but i'm sure that Revan&Malak would win in such contest cause they look insane in their robes) but by an ability to concentrate dark side and transform it into energy that you can use to create magic or powerful illusions and spells. Naga Sadow blinded all jedi during coruscant siege with his illusions of unbeatable armies and later used the same magic to destroy Denari Nova system. Exar Kun frozen thousands of jedi masters and senators in galactic senate when he came to free Ulic. And so on. Generally Sith Lords have total control over the forces of nature. Being cruel and grotesque means nothing. Malak was weak and so was Revan. They maybe were weekend villains to entertain gamers but Vader would kill them with bare hands and so would Exar Kun and Palpatine.