Boeroer

@thelee: what? You are not using my custom passive icons? What a disappointment!

Exactly. That's why I listed the most likely reasons that line up with (or don't contradict) the data we have. Like bad marketing, setting, change of crowdfunding platforms etc. I personally have 0 problems with the setting. It's just a theory that is a) reasonable and b) doesn't collide with the data we have (e.g. reviews). Because somebody who didn't buy Deadfire because they don't like pirate settings in RPGs would indeed not write a negative review. Same with bad marketing and so on: those are reasons not to buy a game and they wouldn't be reflected by reviews (since you didn't play the game in the first place).

But you are arguing with anecdotal references. Usually, if a game is sold 1,000,000 times and 10,000 players write a review (see PoE on Steam) or simply somehow voice their opinion and judge a game (when it lands on Metacritic) and the professional critics come to the same conclusion by the way - then first of all it's a relevant sample size and secondly it would be extremely surprising if all the players who didn't review the game hated it while the ones who did review it mostly think it's good. Very unlikely. This is no solid proof. Reviews are more like a survey - and surveys can be misleading. But it has a lot more substance than just picking stuff one didn't like and then bloating it up to be "the" reason for the sales drop (as if one's taste determines what most people like or dislike) - while at the same time ridiculing the arguments of others. I still saw no proper explanation for this (anecdotal reference is no proper explanation unless you reach a significant sample size - finding like 10 friends who support your claim is not statistically significant). I read a lot of Twitter messages that praise PoE and Deadfire. This is because I follow some Obs devs and WorldOfEternity. I never read bad things. Obviously nobody who hates PoE would go to Twitter and post it into the timeline of an Obsidian dev (I mean nobody but weird ones). So this is anecdotal reference ("So many people on Twitter loved it!") but at the same time it's meaningless unless those voices would reach significant numbers.

I don't want to repeat myself - but it seems that several people still don't consider the following (very basic) point that contradicts most of their arguments, including this one: If the sales numbers dropped so harshly because a lot of players didn't like PoE or Deadfire for whatever reasons (be it overly complex mechanics - you name it) then the user reviews would reflect that. Which. They. Do. Not. If anything then this is glaring obvious - and indisputable. I don't understand how such arguments can be repeated over and over again when this question hasn't been solved yet. Nobody who came up with such a theory was able to explain this baffling conflict. Even if some of those arguments sound reasonable: this simple point seems to invalidate most of them. But maybe there is an explanation for this. I just can't think of one. It would make some sense if players knew beforehand how the mechanics of Deadfire worked - like from playing PoE - and decided not to buy it then (hence no reviews from those players). But then why didn't they voice their dissapointment in the PoE reviews?

Ewww... MMO

It's not PoE Tactics - but given that Josh loves Battle Brothers (I do so as well) and TB combat and classless systems - and that his PoE Tabletop Rules are rel. easy to adapt for such a game I'd say it's not totally unreasonable to hope for such a game. Battle Brothers was a big financial success for the developer (from Hamburg, Germany). Maybe a somewhat big studio developing somewhat niche games should focus on putting out more games but less costly ones (no fancy cutscenes, less full-fledged companions and factions, no Full VO etc.). After all it's the return on investment in percentages that counts. Also seems the risk is lower if you spread your game portfolio instead of putting it all into on big fat gun that sinks your own ship if it misfires...?

Sounds right. I guess they just assumed this was all due to fig being new and relatively unknown compared to Kickstarter. And then - as Josh said (can't find the quote) : preorders and sales right at release were even a tad better than PoE's - and that might even have cemented that assumption.

Since it has a cooldown system and rel. straightforward mechanics I can picture a first/third person Tyranny on consoles very well.

I have the same problem. I'll even puke all over the playground from riding the children's merry-go-round. And don't give me a book for the road trip! I beg you!

It is good. Won some awards, too. But if I'm not mistaken its sales numbers aren't stellar as well.

Never use it since Cadhu Scalth is so much better (with the proper skillset). But I think in general I would stick to the Thermally Stable --> Nonconductive route... I guess...?

But then: why are the user ratings for PoE so good? One should think if so many players were disappointed this should lead to mediocre reviews. But it didn't. On Steam (very positive), on Metacritic (8.3 user score) - the user ratings are so good. That contradicts that theory (being the single biggest reason) a bit.

@kanisatha's like: ...then starts to over-think and over-analyze this question as if he's M.O.D.O.K.

Whether you like PoE over Deadfire (me) or the other way round - I think it's absolutely safe to say that Deadfire is more accessible and more rational when it comes to mechanics (even if the inner workings under the hood might be more complicated).

My image of humanity is generally positive. But this has nothing to do with underestimating people. It has to do with the time and money that the average player generally has at hand and the scope of sales numbers we are talking about. There surely are players who can't spare a lot of money but have time and will examine a game very closely before buying it. On the other hand there are players who don't have a lot of time but money so they just buy what they think looks good. And then there's a lot of players in between. Those specific behaviors cannot explain a massive sales drop like Deadfire's (compared to PoE) while - and I repeat myself - the reviews given by streamers, critics and users are nearly the same(!). So - if the problem was the execution of the things you asked above then the reviews should reflect that. Which they don't. So the overall quality and implementation of Deadfire doesn't seem to be the problem. But we discussed this in length already. So - is it more likely that a) all the players who passed on Deadfire did it because they consumed a lot of Let's Plays and asked themselves the same questions you did - or is it more likely that b) those players saw the new nautic setting and passed because they think "Hm... not my cup of tea"? If you ask me and lots of others b) seems to be more likely than a). So far we have collected some simple yet reasonable explanations why Deadfire dropped so hard (since reviews were on par which suggests implementation and quality was not the problem): Players didn't like PoE for whatever reason and thus didn't buy Deadfire - while new players wouldn't want to start with the second part (sequel problem) Players didn't hear/read about Deadfire (marketing failure) Players didn't like changes that were announced before release (e.g. party size reduction) Players didn't like the move from Kickstarter to Fig Players didn't like the setting (pirate vs. medieval) Other reasons like story, implementation, companions and whatnot can be an additional reason. But they can't explain such a massive drop while the reviews from critics and users didn't tank at all. If the reviews would have been bad then I'd say "sure". But they aren't bad. I didn't aswer your post because I object that there are players who asked themselves those questions before they decided to not buy Deadfire. That was not the reason. I'm just not thinking that this can explain a massive sales drop. I also answered because you made it sound as if the theory "the setting put people off" is somehow ridiculous while your theory "they all closely monitored influencers" is really what explains it all: Which sounds like a rather presumptuous approach that needed a refutation.

Yeah I know: it's neither very consistent nor well explained. You'd have to do a lot of testing and/or reading in order to find out about all those little details.

I also don't appreciate Full VO. For me it adds nothing to a game. I couldn't care less if it's all voiced or not. Honestly it's more likely that I get annoyed because the VO is messing with me reading the text. I like reading text. And books. Full VO in RPGs with lots of text is like reading a book while listening to the audiobook at the same time.

Because people. At least not in the way you suggested. Because "Ehh pirate game, no thanks" beats "So you know I had a little bit of time and watched the whole thing where StreamerDude played 123 hours of Deadfire and found out stuff about the mobile fortress, islands with skillchecks and meaningful variations during a chase for a god and now I think I'd rather buy Flappy Bird" as a reasonable part of an explanation to why Deadfire sold vastly less copies despite getting similarly good reviews from press, streamers and players.

@Shyla: Interesting. For me there's not much difference whether it's tabletop or computer RPG (in this regard). I never play myself but always try to combine a mechanically interesting character with a plausible backstory that explains his stats and numbers in a somewhat original way. And then roll with it. Never thought about it to be honest: that people might approach those two forms of "role-playing" differently.

Why should I ask myself those questions when discussing the reasons for Deadfire's mediocre success? Those are things you can answer once you bought and played the game for quite some time - not when looking at it in a store, deciding whether to buy it or not. Here the possible explanation "different setting put off potential players" makes more sense.

Obviously I can't answer for @Alendra - but that's totally the case for me. If I put some effort into a backstory etc. it immensely affects my choices in the game.

Wounding stacks. You will apply multiple instances that run parallel. It's hard to see in the combat log though. You will have to monitor the red numbers that pop up over the enemies' heads. Wounding is the most potent dps enchantment in PoE. That and the speed enchantment.

Wounding (Drawn in Spring) is not based off of base damage but it's a multiplicative DoT-lash that is based on the pre-DR dmg roll you do. So if you roll 20 slash dmg the wounding will do additional 5 raw damage over time. Funny thing is that wounding also scales with MIG. So if you have 20 MIG it not only does 25% raw dmg as it says but actually 32.5% (6.5 in this csse). And if your INT is high it will spread that dmg over a longer time - if your INT is low it will take less time. So low INT is better for dps on this special case. A better weapon would be a stunning or overbearing one (Godansthunyr or Cladhaliath or We Toki) so that the shield bash crit would proc its Thrust of Tattered Veils more often. It's also easier to unlock Deathblows that way.

Afaik an active party member has to wear it. The amount of money it generates is very low though and it only generates it per turn iirc (a turn is when you advance in any quest). It's totally not worth wearing it. Just put it aside or sell it.

Could do that here as well. But I thought bare claws are a bit more fitting for a Cannibal. Obviously the Warlock with Draining Touch/Will debuff route is something similar - only with a Club instead of a Morning Star. It works extremely well but requires more setup. Always Morning Star for a Brute or a Ravager though. Or nearly always... By the way (I mentioned it before but will repeat it here since it's barb/monk related) : If you use Force of Anguish with a Ravager you will hit the initial target with Carnage as well. Usually only bystanders get hit by Carnage. That's because you will push the enemy into the Carnage AoE right before Carnage gets rolled. This means your single target damage goes up quite a bit with FoA. Since Force of Anguish also targets fortitude a Morning Star with Body Blows (and later Brute Force to make Carnage target fortitude as well) would be best. Best used in tandem with Spirit Frenzy and Envenomed Strikes in order to bring down Fortitude even more. A kith eating Barb/Ancient with the Spine of Thicket Green and who uses the synergy of DoTs like Plague of Insects etc. + Blood Thirst is also very fun to play. Can even be played with Whisper of the Endless Paths if the focus should be more melee oriented - since Taste of the Hunt's DoT get applied over the whole cone of WotEP and that's quite the potent DoT that would stack with stuff like Insect Plage, Plague of Insects etc. Once the DoTs start killing weaker enemies your recovery will be 0 often which lets you cast more DoTs more quickly etc. Also here Spirit Frenzy is the better pick since most DoTs target fortitude. You can combine with a weakening spell.