Elric Galad

Yup. The big difference here is that I seized the opportunity of Great Soul to help Cipher and Chanter to get more ressources as SC. There is absolutely no need to boost MC Cipher and Chanter. Yet, getting absolutely nothing from Adra Glow and an idiotic description feels wrong for them. So I want to give them just a little something that doesn't affect balance. For Cipher, the obvious choice would be Starting Focus BUT this is technically complicated as Adra Glow is a permanent effect, not something activating at the beginning of combat. (that's the reason behind Grest Soul bizarre effect for Cipher). So I'll opt for a +max focus since I want to keep it simple. +15 max focus will do the trick. A little annoying for Ascendant but just don't bath if it annoys you. For Chanter, I don't want to mess with ressources generation (troubadour balance, MC chanters already top tier), so I will give +33% AoE Auras (similar to PoE1 Voice of the Mountain top).

Probably applies on each attack roll (casting and damages). But echoing on Flame Shield casting itself probably does nothing (maybe can remove a nice spell and still applies if echoed on cast?).

Yeah that's the point. You might have a hard time using SC paladin as a damage dealer vs fire immune, but most of them have low cold AR and a few (cough cough Dorudugan) have low electricity AR. The PEN can't be too high or most encounter would be solved by spamming it. Note the Base 6 dual type (10 due to Tier scaling) is exactly the same as missile salvo. The PEN issue can somewhat be solved by using food for the few encounter that needs it. Anyway, LoPZ isn't a pure offensive ability. It is the strongest AoE spike heal of the game bar none. The goal of the offensive part change is to allow Paladin to somewhat contribute vs fire immune (while keeping everybody alive), not be the primary damage dealer. As you point Bleak Walker subclass rework would indeed provide an additional tool for this specific case. It is indeed a common feature for "2nd part" of martial attack. Monk Torment works the same. It can't be changed for technical reasons. But but but BPM addressed it by adding additional accuracy for the secondary part as noted in the patch note! (+15acc for Power Strike, +20acc for Inspiring Strike.) So don't worry, endgame efficiency is around the same as it would be with propre scaling.

This part I will do This part isn't technically doable, at least not easily. What can be done is to apply the effect once when when the spell is cast. This one is quite reasonnable from a pure balance standpoint. I can make it for you if you want. But it deviates too much from the original for me to include in my mod's package. Also it forces usingit with reaping knives. I think you underestimate how it would works with my previous and proposed change I've already changed the spell to target Deflection. Targetting Fortitude is Disintigrate main weakness vs the target you really want to hit with your big bad single target DoT as they tend to have gruesome Fortitude. Targetting Deflection instead is big asset of the spell. Death of 1000 Cuts isn't bad. Its base damages (with 0 extension its base damages are the same as Disintigrate, albeit slower) and each hit adds a total ~90 damages. I think you focus a bit too much on using it how you intended to. Think about it like a passive that can last a whole battle. Again, I'm not claiming it couldn't have been better with another design, but I think the current one is good enough. Pain Link will trigger it on each retaliation (in my mod, it lasts 30s) and you can put it on several party member, which is probably enough to have it up all the time. Probably very efficient vs things like Dorudugan. It won't make the kill, but the added damages for a single cast will likely be hard to compare with anything else. I like it less.

Okay, I've changed a bit my mind. The thing is, if Death of 1000 Cuts is changed to work with universal sources of damages, it would become a kind of passive. Take a blunderbuss and any issue about maintaining it is solved. A passive that adds raw damages on each strike (like a party wide avenging storm, which is also more reliable because of raw damages) and a raw permanent DoT (like a better version of Gouging Strike). To avoid it being too strong I would have to tweak down the number a lot... which would completely changes the nature of the spell. Which might be fun, but isn't the purpose of Balance Polishing Mod. Also I got the feeling that the spell would be too simple to use. Current Death of 1000 Cuts need effort to work properly, but that's what the game fun, ney ? Not permanent semi passive. At least stuff like Combusting Wounds have to be cast again to work (and Fire damages isn't a solution to all battles). So Gameplay wise, I think this change is not suitable. Adding other trigger for Death of 1000 Cuts isn't out question but : - Adding other Cipher Spells would automatically result in Ectopsychic Echo being the optimal choice. Only Antipathetic Field could compete, but it is harder to use. => Discarded - Adding Reaping knives weapon attacks would also be too obvious as a combo : Cast Death of 1000 Cuts, cast Reaping Knives to every party member, profit. => Discarded - The sadest thing about Death of 1000 Cuts is that it works only with direct damages shred spells. Disintigrate, Soul Ignition, Recall Agony and Pain Link don't work. That's actually a big part of all Shred spells that don't work (plus reaping knives) ! So I think it would be suitable to have Death of 1000 Cuts work on any Shred Graze/Hit/Crit (including Pain Link retaliation autohit). That would provide simple interactions with Disintigrate, Sould Ignition and Recall Agony. And also a really nice interaction with Pain Link, although not as obvious as Ectopsychic Echo would have been. With the later simple change, there would be 3 spells "optimal" to use with Death of 1000 Cuts : Antipathetic Field, Screaming Soul and Pain Link. Still for Solo play for Dorudugan, Magran Belts + Antipathetic Field would still be the only solution. I can't really balance the game for that one fight (even if it is a relevant fight as arguably the hardest). That being said, I'm only speaking about modding for Balance Polishing Mod. If you really want a special version for your own use, ask me, I can make it (within a couple of weeks though )

Okay, that's a matter of simplified description. I corrected in the mod description page (in the ingame ability description, it would be too complicated). The formula with BPM is 10+1/3*(foc-10), not 1.33x*(10+1/4*(foc-10)). Only the additional damages per focus spent is multiplied. The base damage isn't multiplied. Since focus generation with biting whip is only ~75% as with draining whip, you are still paying "a little faster" the initial 10 focus ticket with Draining Whip. Technically, Soul Annihilation isn't as efficient with Biting Whip as with Draining Whip. Soul Annihilation is as efficient with Biting Whip as with Draining Whip but with 2.5 less focus (so slightly slightly worse but you get more damage from the weapon part due to raw lash) OK, I'll check.

Unless I'm mistaken, you don't even use mods (bar UI and CP) The duration extension par damages should be in line with "the shield cracks" which also trigger on damages. I think it's 3s, ney ? EDIT : Or maybe it should be more challenging because it's damages, not just a debuff (2s or even 1s would be enough, maintaining it for unlimited duration should be challenging - and even with this multihit weapons would allow it). The raw damages per damages should be... I don't know ? 10 raw damages maybe ? Combusting wounds have "base 6" (4 + initial tick) and easily reaches the 10 damage threshold due to its complicated refreshing meachanism. EDIT : Ney, resonant touch is 15 damages and it is way harder to use. Avenging storm is 7-10 damages is self only (at least switching target/using AoE weapons work better). 5 raw damages per damaged is a maximum IMHO. This and the DoT will be very valuable in the long run. EDIT EDIT : to be sincere, I think it really could lead to something quite degenerate if we allow it with something else than (Cipher) spells. The fact it doesn't even work on Shred DoT is sad though.

Balance Polishing Mod just makes Screaming Souls work closer as intended, causing all vessels including allies in the vicinity to trigger a Shred AoE attack. In Solo, with a SC Cipher, it won't help much. But with a party with the right set-up, you now have another Shred spell that can cause multiple attacks per cast vs lonely boss. (also make Death of 1000 cuts target Deflection to distinguish more from Disintigrate) At this point I wonder if the easiest fix won't be simply to allow Death of 1000 Cuts to work with any Cipher spell and/or with reaping knives attack. Respect the original vibe. I mean, AFAIK, it is the only Cipher spell that interacts with a Cipher KW. Combo with Ectopsychic would be a tad too obvious. Is this that much better than Antipathetic Field ? Much more convenient at least. Maybe I should lower the 31 raw instant damages if I go that way ? Or maybe I should go with a Combusting wounds-like version that works vs everything (with even lower values).

Various adjustments planned for Fire shield effects : Flame Shield : 8-12 damages -> 16-24 Magran's Blessing : Fire Shield : 6-10 damages -> 12-20 Greater Fire Shield : 10-14 damages -> 20-28 Fire Stag Fire Shield : 10-15 damages -> 20-30 Fire Godlike : 3-5 damages, +20%/PL -> 3-5 damages, +50%/PL I feared this one could have been broken early game if straight doubling damages. Darcozzi LoH (new version of adjustments) : - Cast/Recovery for LoH/GLoH/HoL set to 0.5s/2s for Darcozzi Paladini as a secondary subclass feature - 45s fire shield which retaliates on every damage source and stacks 5 times (reapplying LoH will multiply fire shield damages) - +4 AR vs Cold damages (no changes - 5-8 base damages 7 base PEN (scaling +5% damages, +5% duration, +2 Acc, +0.5 PEN per Tier). (roughly a third of what Wiz Flame Shield provides) This new Darcozzi version with moderate damages but stacking is meant to address 3 issues : 1) Previous version could have been too strong early on. This one starts lower but cumulating fire shield will be a valid strategy on the endgame. 2) Solves the issue of recast : LoH only lasts 5s compared to the 45s fire shield effect. You may want to recast it quickly, but then the fire shield woud have been wasted. 3) LoH and GLoH/HoL shields did stack because they were from different abilities. This was a bit obscure. I think replacing it with a global 5 Darcozzi Fire Shield stacking in total will be more clear.

OK, so I thought about Darcozzi Paladini a bit. I think there is nothing intresically wrong in a retaliation effect. This was the initial intention of the subclass to allow retaliations through Lay on Hand. The core philosophy of BPM is to try to remain in line with initial intent. Retaliations are also quite in line with Paladin fluff, so there could be a subclass specialized in it. However, there are a few reasons that make it not working very well : 1) The damage values. Anyway, this is the least priority to be addressed once the rest has been cleaned up, since it is quite easy to tweak values. An obvious part for me is that PEN should scale well (+0.5 PEN per PL instead of +0.25 PEN). 2) Retaliation on melee damages. Not all foes are going to attack you with melee, which makes it a bit conditional. This is less an issue for Fire Godlike or Flame Shield because they are only up on 1 of your character. You are going to make this character your frontline tank, so the melee retaliation will work well enough on them. But Darcozzi Lay on Hand is supposed to be spammed on as much party member as possible, which make the melee damages more conditional. => I think Darcozzi Fire Shield would work well if it retaliated from all source of damages (melee, ranged weapons, spell and abilities). This way, it would be more likely to produce some effect. 3) Darcozzi Fire Shield would work better if it was spammed on as many targets as possible, as soon as they take a few hit. This is a completely different playstyle from standard LoH (even more Shieldbearers' special) that are supposed to be emergency backup. But why wouldn't you want to spam it ? 1 Zeal isn't that much after all... Easy answer : because using LoH is freaking slow to use. A Paladin tends to be encaged in big steel and has no good speed up effect. Auras are passive, Exhortations are instant, but when you happen to use your few abilities with an actual recovery, you are going to use a lifetime to recover. For things such as Sacred Immolation or Light of Pure Zeal, this isn't very annoying, but for your little Tier 1 ability that you want to spam all over your party, that won't just work well. => I think Darcozzi Lay on Hand should ALSO get a faster recovery. 0.5/2s cast/recovery would be a really interesting buff as well as a much better synergy with their retaliation effect. Fluff-wise, I think it would fit to have Darcozzi Paladini quickly inspiring every party member with the living memory of the fires of Darcozzi Palace. To summarize, my current proposal would be : - Cast/Recovery for LoH/GLoH/HoL set to 0.5s/2s for Darcozzi Paladini as a secondary subclass feature - 45s fire shield which retaliates on every damage source - +4 AR vs Cold damages (no changes - around 6-10 base damages 7 base PEN (scaling +5% damages, +5% duration, +2 Acc, +0.5 PEN per Tier). These numbers can be discussed and take into account my intention to buff all retaliation effects - Flame Shield would be buffed to 16-24 with lesser scaling and only works vs melee. I might also : - reduce duration but increases damages (spammability) - give better value to Tier 3 GLoH/HoL fire shield compared to LoH one. I think this could be an interesting possibility because I fear the effect above could be a relatively more powerful at the lowest levels, so some staggering could help.

PoE1 Darcozzi increased target accuracy with Liberating Exhortations. It was a stacking bonus. Although PoE2 subclasses work differently (not specific talent but a bonus to a Tier 1 ability), but I could imagine something like that, or one of the effect you propose. I could also have a short lived flame shield (with much greater effect) and a short lived buff with similar duration. To reflect the "passionate" idea. Maybe align everything with LoH duration. BPM Darcozzi fire shield does NOT provide Cold Immunity, just the vanilla bonus Cold AR. It felt too low tier ability to grant such effect (Flame Shield is Tier 4).

That's a fair consideration, since the heavy focus on Paladin fire damages feel meh with so many fire immune foes (that's why I changed the damages from Light of Pure Zeal). It would require changing shared/persisting flame to corrode effect (same values) but I think I can do it. Also I will grant Bleak Walker the possibility to pick Spirit of Decay without multiclassing (still Scion of Flames for Brand ennemy/Sacred Immolation). It's not a pure buff, so I would put it in the "nerf package". Also I will set the lash to +40% by default, without the scaling which makes things more complicated (also a mitigation for unsatisfaction for loosing the fire keyword ) BPM is for kind of expert players, I guess they would get the intent. I think flame shield would be okay with this buff. Wizard ARE a decent punchbag and there's always multiclass anyway. BPM Flame shield also provide Ice keyword immunity which has its perk. That might not solves Dacozzi case. Maybe I should buff Flame Shield and the likes BUT NOT Darcozzi one and instead grant them some extra passive. EDIT : the passive I'm thinking about for Darcozzi would be an aura similiar to "Love of Life" (10% bonus healing received) from Furrante's Breastplate. Thematically it would fit since Furrante IS a Darcozzi and Darcozzi are litterally renowned for their love of life. Not sure about the value since it is only meant to be a little extra, but even a 5% bonus healing (including self) could be enough. It works mechanically for a subclass that grants a bonus for Lay on Hand. Darcozzi benefit more from Outworn Buckler, but that should remain a nice extra, not a core feature. Problem is Llengrath Safeguard is what I would call a "core ability" of wizard. Changing it too much would go too far from original design. I wanted to keep the +5AR and +20 all defenses for long time, because I want this effect to stay in wizard portfolio. I thought about adding a recovery because it emphasizes the current difference with Ironskin without changing both spells too much. One shall also keep in mind that Ironskin has an Infinite duration when getting only graze. Increasing AR could make it degenerate.

Pretty much. The names are usually pretty explicit.

The good thing with Shadow Step is that the paralysis is automatic and does not roll. If you miss, it does not apply BUT it is not consumed either (might apply next time). Granted the ability is overcosted IMHO without BPM. The Strike the Bell line is also one of the few exception that does not apply the effect in an AoE (I think it does with BPM though).

I have nothing against the Sicken effect, CON isn't even the most resisted affliction. Forbidden Fist pays a high price for getting a CON debuff. It is a really neat effect to give to a DPS attack. You can put it on a ranged attack, or Full/attack, AoE attack, multihit attack, which FF can't do. Rogue has a less flexible 2 guiles CON inflicting status. Also the Acid KW can get benefit from the elemental talent, and Helm of the White Void ensures some build potential vs CON resistant foes for endgame. Really my biggest issue is that the lash value feels too low. Early game, the Sicken is enough but it needs a slightly higher floor utility vs CON resistant foes. Basically I plan to implement a 10+0,5xcharlevel lash. So it ends up as a 40% dual elemental lash. It is cost efficient for pure DPS. +10 accuracy and +20% (+40% with my BW change) and the PL scaling makes it the second best attack below BPM accurate wounding shot. FoD also has a lasting upgrade and is instant. Interrupt isn't in Paladin portfolio, and I don't want to change this to much. Anyway, let's talk about Darcozzini. It is a good fraction of a Lvl 4 Wiz spell. The only thing it lacks compared to it is a good scaling. Base 7 PEN + 0.25 pr PL is too low for a subclass defining ability. So I plan to rise it to +2 Acc/PL and +0.5PEN per PL. HOWEVER, I came to realize that flame shield is a meh tier 4 wiz spell as a whole. 10 retaliation damages isn't big, it isn't reliable (requires getting hit), it pales in comparison to everything that looks like an actually DoT and is rarely worth a slot. Wiz get a Tier 8 retaliation spell that deals 35-50 damages with crowd control included. OK it is Tier 8 but is still way too good in comparison. So basically I plan to set all fire retaliation effect to about twice their current values (so Flame Shield 16-24, Darcozzini to 8-12...) What do you think ? Now Goldpact. +4AR is great for Paladin, it works against the next 5 attacks (Iron Skin is 10 attacks). The neat thing is that Grazes don't count. Then why do I never use Iron Skin ? Why does Iron Skin feels so underwhelming ? Answer is simple : because Llengrath Safeguard is too good. +5 AR with a reliable duration, +20 all defenses, a relatively easy to get condition... I came to the conclusion that Llengrath Safeguard has to be nerfed. BUT this spell is really a basis of Wizard class, so I don't want to nerf it in a way that hits too directly Wiz build. I just want somehow to make Ironskin more appealing in comparison. So my proposal is to add 4s recovery (already has a 3s casting) to Llengrath Safeguard. No strict power reduction, just a way to feel quasi-instant Ironskin more convenient in comparison. Finally I admit being annoyed by the unreliability of disposition based effects for building a character. But it has nothing to do with Balance. So I plan to release another mod that replaces Disposition Scaling by a charlevel scaling for Faith&Conviction, Deep faith, Holy Radiance and Spiritual Weapons.

I've been thinking for a long time that Bleak Walkers... ahem... weren't the best subclass. They have a Tier 1 affliction, which is neat, but can be somehow negated (at least you can pick a helm that grants +10 Acc to all affliction inflicting attacks, or the Acid talent via multiclassing). But 12% lash ? Seriously, this is slightly too low. Not even 15%, I would qualify this value as a bit mean from the devs The effect is nice to optimize damages, but compared to what White Flames grants, it seems a bit underwhelming. I know Darcozzi could be seen as weaker, but putting some fire shield a bit everywhere is going to have a better effect on the long run. EDIT : considering a bit of additional scaling to Darcozzi fire shield.

I think monk it a bit above the rest (and high above the melee) when it comes to supporting another class through multiiclass. That being said, I don't find tons of synergy with chanter. Intellect is neat, action speed is low priority for chanter (but will help monk's own part) and the great monk summons... still won't beat chanter's. Ancestor's Memory will happily benefit to other party member, I guess. Zeal is not an excellent ressources, but primarly due to excessive cost of the abilities. There are some powerful stuff to do if you have near infinite zeal. SC Paladin can put Nimble on the whole party (no action time, and I don't think another class can do that) or heal everyone by 150hp. Or just spam White Flames for respectable attack damages while healing everyone around. I was under the impression that your position was set. Maybe I'm reading too fast. This is not my mother tongue, and I don't have tons of available time these days... General consensus (at least on this forum) is generaly trsutworthy, which does not mean it has to be followed blindly

Cipher is a mediocre support who has one important niche : avoid ressource depletion. And a secondary niche : being a mediocre healer, but with infinite ressource and at the cost of 1 ability point. It clarifies the reaonsing, not the conclusion Because you can still complete it with another subclass. Herald for example, still beat every combination above in the persisting tanking + support department. Basically you need a shield, stoic steel, some source of non stackable AR and that's about it. Maybe you invested too much in Paladin defense to begin with. Nobody build around healing (except when I cast Nature's Balm at the beginning of combat, but that's because it is absurdly optimal at this point and last a bit) But are you going to pretend healing never happens ? In a party of 5, having a character using 1 healing from times to times isn't going to brutally kills your DPS. Especially if you build around DoT. Also White Flames are exceptionnal at combining attack and healing. Most well rounded Paladin subclass IMHO. Nope, I don't think so. Neither Warcaller not Cantor are not as good support. They almost have no spike heals (the Chanter double ray of light is mediocre at best). Double source of party-wide constant healing + Mercy and Kindness will prevent any further heal but you will still have it if needed. Because your topic is literally called "Advice needed" ? Because you asked for "peer reviews" ? If a widespread opinion does not make you hesitant about your conclusions, why are you here to discuss ?

Well, I don't care that much whether Wizard belongs to "Game Breaking" or "Game Breaking but a bit less" category. Both are acceptable for a tier list that has to simplify a bit the considerations. At the moment, I'm more concerned about avoiding Paladins to be put on the bottom tier

Okay, so basically you tend to rank lower the classes that provides a combination of roles. Hence the druid ranking (and you probably ended up rising it by one tier because it is the best healer, even if you don't personally rank healing as important). Paladin being inferior to wiz and fighter for tanking is debattable. Paladin is the one that doesn't rely on self-buff, which I still believe to be important, especially vs dispells. Stoic Steel is rarely mentionned, but I believe it to be the most broken paladin feature. I'm pretty sure Paladins top AR tanking by virtue of Stoic Steel (something like +3 stackable AR is EXTREMELY rare, I'm not even sure that any class gets more than +1 stackable AR), with possibly some help from Goldpact subclass. Note that this one doesn't even rely on multiclassing. NOTES : Stoic Steel can be charged by standing still 18s before battle and isn't cancelled by "jump" abilities such as Escape and Leap. For support, I won't argue Paladin beat Priest or Chanter, the point is that LoH is really convenient for Single Target healing. And freaking instant Rez can save the day more than once. Also Combination of roles being relevant or not also depends a lot on action economy and build cost, ressource economy. Being a damage dealer and healer is "nice to have" if you have to choose one for each action / ressource spent. But it is much more valuable if the secondary role cost few ability points, no ressource and no cast time. That's why I think Paladins are nice. Their tanking and aura cost nothing and adds up in the background to anything the build can offer. Low action economy also means that they can wear the biggest armors and still be efficient, which synergizes well with the previously mentionned AR tanking. That's why, for example, the Herald build is so powerful. It just stacks everything in the background and can do most of its tricks forever. (Note that I still count Chanter on a higher tier due to the sheer brokenness of Ancient Weapons and Mercy and Kindness aura). I tend to be a bit dubious when people absolutely want specialists and don't consider 2 sides can actually stack up. And once again, I've rarely read people describing Paladins as weak.

Driving Roar is arguably the best ability for SC Barbarian. It really does a crapload of damages, pushing and interrupting and can be spammed. Dazzing Shout isn't bad though.

Maybe the little difference is that Wiz can only cheat about itself while priest can cheat the whole party. And Ancestor's Memory does not need a particular combo to be broken. It can save your life in any prolonged fight. Just the amount of utility it has in this context in crazy. There is even a dedicated component of my mod (Potion of Enlightenment) that is dedicated to provide alternative to this particular ability. That's why out of the 3, Wiz is probably the least abusable. It stands somewhere between Overloaded and Game Breaking tier.

Oh, I don't think Druid vs Fighter has to be discussed again (even if once more, I have concern with Unbending reliance on ressource pool which is a concern in some fights... unless playng tactician of course. Tactician is not only a great multiclass but also fix the main weakness of the main fighter asset STOP ) Paladin in the bottom tier, I have issues about this one cause I haven't much discussed. Paladin has great tanking. Inferior to fighter, but totally independant from ressource pool and starting at lvl1 (Stoic Steel is almost broken good). Paladin is a good healer, arguably above Priest cause LoH and instant resurrection are really convenient. Auras are less varied but in the same league as Chanter. Paladin main issue is that the active ability above tier 1 are meh, so I won't see it above Bread n Butter. But it's definitely a great multiclass. Herald is above the greatest "classic" multiclass. And it does most of its tanking and support without even requiring any action and limited ressources. Half a slot for tanking + healing + support isn't niche IMHO. I have never read Paladin seriously qualified as bottom tier class. Note that I don't have that much time right now to get involved in some video cause I'm about to house move .

Not 100% sure, but what I would think more acceptable (close enough for yours): Game Breaking: Cipher, Priest Overloaded: Wizard, Chanter, Monk Bread-n-Butter: Druid, Rogue, Fighter (+1 tier for Tactician if you realy want it higher, or just quote Tactician as a reason to put it higher ), Paladin (when did you rank them so low ?) Niche: Ranger, Barbarian

Healing isn't a niche composition strategy. You say you don't need it, but because you rely on other function (tanking) that also requires party slot. I still believe that "downgrading a wiz into a druid" is a way cheaper cost than having a tanking slot. You should somehow take into account that the community AFAIK does not have a low opinion about druid. That's different from the other "low tier classes".