Voltron

Yup that is the problem with game. Some things are bad by design- backstab, sneak attack requirements, sneak mechanic, path blocking, small corridors etc. You are now looking for tank-Rogue build. I advice to search in this forum with builds "Retalitation Rogue"- you will find there a nice build for tank Rogue. But if you really want to switch to be front line- Figher and Barbarian are better. At least now when they still did not nerf OSA on Barb, after that, there will be only Fighter, Chanter and Cipher left :/. If only AT LEAST Shadow Beyond was per encounter and Sneak Attack and Backstab just required to hit enemies back that would be much better. However both best DPS talents of Rogue have stupid requirements that JUST DO NOT work with how fights occur in this game. Not your fault, man. If you seek for glass cannon build that do super damage while let your tank keep enemies bussy I can suggest you fun non-tanky fully damage barbarian for Dual Wielding. It is for party, becasue it is super too squisy for solo. But it is fun ^^. Of course if you wanna have fun with it, don't download next patch becasue they want to nerf OSA with barb.

The problem is with game disables. My barb has around 98 Fortitude right now and 98 Will, when bump up with special items that gives +15 to Paralyze etc it is about 113, wtih Greater Frenzy Fortitude goes even higher and with Stalwark Defiance my Will is about 123. Still, 80% of time Paralyze paralyze me, petrify petrify me etc. PotD TC solo. If not for "broken" OSA and retalitation I would be dead in Endless Paths 11-15 with my Fire God Barbarian. But thanks to OSA and Retalitation I am able to clear those mobs....that is why I won't patch my game. Barb has no good perma damange bonuses and his best abilities are on ony with at least two enemies or 50% Endurance low. OSA is only thing that compensate for it... Game has some strange resistance mechanic and that piss me a little. Especially Petrify. I have to hit Defiance before they see me, run to them and even if they pertrifyme, my retalitaion plus Carnage is enough, but sometimes barely. Some perma disables are just waaaay too good and accurate in this game. While at the same time all melee mobs are joke really. CC spells are too strong, damage is too low. That is the problem with enemies here.

Build like that can work: you need you wizard or any other spellcaster inflict at least 1 condition on enemies so Sneak Attack will work. Then you need to use Shadowing beyond and attack your target. For max damage you need at least 2 conditions on enemies- means more managment for casters to make your Rogue work. However build has several cons: 1. If you miss backstab, you are visible again and you have to either: use second shadowing beyond, wasting ability and after that you are pretty much inferior warrior since you can't sneak anymore. You can still do nice damage thanks to conditions inflicted on ememies, however you have to keep looking if enemies are getting them regulary from your casters. 2. You can ONLY attack with max damage with Shadowing Beyond since game mechanic do not allow one character to remain in stealth if even one other party member is discovered so no sneaking around pack of mobs hiting your tank. It sucks hard compare to D&D when you could work like that with your thief/assassin. 3. You have only two invisiblities- means two backstabs. Potential two kills. You build and rouge in general would work much better if sneak in fight would be allowed and be separated for every char in your party. It is fun build but there is also another one problem: Most of the times you want to abuse: bottlenecks, doorways, corners etc. Also- most of the time you are gonna fight packs of mobs. Means that everybody, your party included will be crowded on small space. That makes moving around enemies while invisible many times just impossible since your path is just blocked by friends or foes. So it is possible to have fun with it, sure. However keep in mind that you need to have perfect odds to make this playstyle proc for you. What Rogues need really is: separate stealth, stealth in battle and Shadowing Beyond as per encounter skill. Your build looks solid, INT and DEX can be dumb stats you want to be One-Shoter anyway. For gear anything that boost movement speed, gives second chance and protection. You weapon choice is also best since Sabers work best with this kind of tactic, stilletos are also nice. You can also keep in mind: Estocs, Battle Axes or Maces (for Crush damage and DR pass). LAST TIP: TAKE EVERYTHING THAT BOOST YOUR ACCURACY. Everytalent, every item or gear, every enchant. Have different enchant (enemy group) on different sabers/axes. You WANT TO HIT THIS BACKSTAB. You priest main role in fight is to first of all give you accuracy boost. Cheers and have fun!

Phantom, wurms, drake. I like drake for the fear aura, but the ice spell is actualyl my fav top level spell because if you do dragons x 3 then cast ice spikes pretty much nothing will be able to Mind you share full build? What songs did you use in what order, what spells did you choose, what summons, what talents etc. I am especially highly interesed in your Songs. TY!

Range mobs won't do, they need to be melee to turn on OSA and hit my bard to trigger retalitation procing and activate Carnage procing around. I would still need to tank which is impossible so GoA is still the only way. Priest can work, same as Wizard, however GoA is still needed to not risk being OHKed by Adra Dragon.

Well, good to know not to patch my game any more ^^. I am gonna enjoy broken OSA till the end of world!

Then my bad, I thought it was Adra dragon. Well, so the only solo tactic is still in place- GoA trap and melt it with your highest damaging combo your class have. Adra wasn't really designed to be solo killed without using so called "cheap tactic". However it is RPG. In real fight would you prefer to fight dragon straight 1v1 or would you use tactic to win it? IMO GoA trap + figurines (especially 3x Shades with their accuracy) and using what you can best is pretty nice way to kill dragon, since that really shows how strong this dragon is. IMO that is nice. Ehhh...shame that Adra dragon do not have like 20 melee minions around....my retalitation barb would kill it then .

There was today solo Adra Figher kill: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/77839-are-paladins-really-not-that-bad/page-2 dukefx posted video there, however somehow video is no longer showing to me (I can even see big open space in his post where video was and there is reply to it in further posts). Check if you can see this video Mad, maybe it is just me. I watched it today earlier. He was using spear plus shield I think.

lol, figurine cheese. Then I guess Ptrify spells are also cheese, Mind Binding is Cheese etc. So far I can tell you how to kill Adra solo: being a Moon-Like Fighter, weapon and shield, max tanker, regen, weapon with accuracy on appropriate enemy group (don't know which dragon was, since I play on Polish version) and just stand there and auto-attack it. Stack Might, Con and Endurace with food before fight. Draining weapon is required to heal, armor with appropriate resistance echants. Auto-attack it to death. No cheese. Cipher- you can try perma paralyze it or use summon to spam AW and link that gives crushing damage per sec. Stack Might. Use petrify. Barbarian- set petrify trap, let it get you to 50% HP for Blooded to trigger, lure it to trap, summon 3x Shades, use Animancer Boots and melt it with 3x Jolting Touch. Rest melee classes you probably want use summons for aggro, dps and extra damage from flanked. Stack Might, CON and have a lot regen potion and kill it. Wizard- stack MIGHT, all damage bonuses gear you can get. Petrify it and use most damaging spells on it. Should go down fast. Really only class that can kill it WITHOUT ANY "cheese" is geared up Fighter. He can just stand there and tank and kill it. There is video somewhere also with it.

Yup, that is not a class with good retalitation synergy. Barbarian and Cipher are better for it. First thanks to OSA and Carnage and second due to +40% perma damage bonus from soul and bitting whip and that retalitation hits generate Focus. I have to yet see if Figher can somehow use retatlitation to best… Retalitation gear is not really that good really. I mean every additional DPS is always more damage, however to max retalitation potential you need melee bonuses (OSA/Soul Whip) or Carnage (proc on every enemy around, so more enemies hit you- more hits they get)/Focus Generation to make it worth.

Fighters are just superior. Paladins more fun to play, since there is more in it than just auto-attack and passives. But I agree. Paladins fail to be between fighter and priest class, and brings nothing really from both worlds. They should have more self defense/buff/protect powers that are usefull. I'd still take Paladin for more challange and less "yawn" during combat. Class is still weak though.

Barbarian. First time in RPG games it is not class inferior to Figher/Warrior with just some Frenzy ability which is mostly meh. Carnage skill, OSA and Defiance make him unique character and that is why I will stop patching game if I will see that next patch is bringing nerf to OSA. I have to much fun and with him, either solo (more tank) or in party (super glass cannon build). Great class, really. Second is Cipher since I was always a fan of Star Wars and Siths and my Cipher is evil guy (party PoTD,) with ton of mind-control and damaging powers, fighting with two-handed sword/estoc. Love the concept. Many powers are meh, but so are 70% of all talents/spells in this game.

Tested yesterday. It says in description 3x per rest. Also when you equip them and have spell on your tooltip it also shows 3x. However when you use it ONCE, it uses 2 spells and you are left with 1x use. Please fix. Thank you.

True. Did you try this build with retalition tank Cipher? Any stats/tactics you would like to share? What race? I think Moon Like and Aumanin (or something like that, I never remember this race stupid name...) would be best. First for free healing, since Cipher lacks healing and second for +2 Might and extra +20 defense to Prone and Stun.

But wasn't Amplified Wave spell that require you to target ally? I want solo build as I mentioned in thread. Or can you use AW on enemy also or yourself? I also do not think Rouge is that good. But Cipher sounds good really.

Simple: which is better. I like Rogue for free invisibility if things go bad. However his biggest damage bonuses are from sneak attack and backstab which really do not matter on retalitation build since enemies do not hit you. They have riposte, which is basicly 3rd retalition on you, however imo they lack enough bonuses to damage when solo to bumb retalition damage enough. Of course those are mine concers since I didn't solo PotD with Rogue yet. Cipher on the other hand have perma 40% damage bonus for retalitation, very good CC and retalition generate his focus so fast (when you use 2 retalitation items) that you can spam you damage/CC spells as long as you are getting hit. Which is on one hand good, but on the other hand requires taking hits and Cipher is not most tanky class, not it has ability to break free from fight as rouge. Good think about Rogue is that you can dump two stats: DEX and INT, giving your self more Resolve. Cipher on the other hand has only DEX as dump stat. So my questions is: which one wroks better in solo with retalitation gear and if you have experience with them, please share damage numbers, damage bonuses and you min/max ideas. Thanks

Rouge becasue of 2x free break from fight (ivisibility), bonus damage from attack from being invisibility (great 1v1 feat) and Deep Wounds procing on retalitaion Or Barbarian simply becasue OSA plus Blooded plus Carnage makes him unbeatable AOE damage dealer and he is just stomping everything. My last but not least choice is Cipher, becasue retalitaion proc from Soul and Bitting Whip (so 40% bonus damage regardless of health level) and Generate Focus so it gives you A LOT MORE focus generation. Straight Dual Wielder is not so strong with retalitaion since you want to get hit. And there are two easly obtainable retalitation items: Sanguine Armor and Sura shield. Both STACK, so you get 2x retalitaion from it. Imo dual wielding only on Rouge or barbarian. Rouge because of Riposte and Barb becasue of Carnage. Cipher need a shield for extra Deflection and you want to get Focus super fast so 2x retalition is best. Your main damage is still from Spells. Cheers.

Retalitaion do not work with Draining. If it would, my bard with 2x retalitaion items would never lost even 20% HP since he would heal himself like crazy. Draining proc with Carnage weapons I think when you attack with this weapon, since each mobs hit then by Carnage is consider hit by your weapon. However I did not test it, since I always run with Draining weapon on my Barb if he is not Moon-Like. And I hate how Moon-Like look in this game :/

No. Thats just using semantics to avoid responsibility. Exploit is something unintended. Everyone is free to enjoy the game in any way and thats fine. But lets call bugs bugs and exploit exploits. Or I'll RP that console is special divine power bestowed on me, and perfectly legit. The problem isnt that people use exploits and bugs. The problem is they do that and then in forum boast how they did trple crown and what not, or claim class X is great because bugged skill X does instakills. That doesnt help. No, sir. You are just saying your opinion, which is fine but you try to force your opinions on us, sying that your must be good, just and right. You see, I beat 2 times TC with retalitation barbarian. I find it totally legit achievement becasue I used what game provides me with. I did not use 3-rd party mod to do it, nor console. I did it with what games provide me with. If game provode me with OP skills/mechanics, bugs etc. that is game and devs fault, not mine. I won't wait months to do this achievement just to be sure "ok, there are no more bugs, not more exploits, no more, now I can do it". I respect your opinion and do not try to say to you that mine is correct. However please stop forcing it on me. You said yourself "Everyone is free to enjoy the game in any way and thats fine". And it should end here. If you do not enjoy beating TC with OP mechanics- fine, if that is good to you. I beat it with OP mechanic and I have satisfaction with it. Thats it. Monk is very good class in 1v1 fights or against small group of mobs. However he suck hard against bigger groups becasue he has to build wounds, which means to deal MAX dps he has to lost health, while barb already start doing max damage around with OSA and that is why I like him. I have yet to see PotD Endless Paths done with solo monk. With solo barb- it is totally doable, since 98% of fights there are against big groups of mobs.

Depends from you race also. If you are Moon Like I strongly suggest Maces: http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Mace If you are Fire God-Like I suggest Draining weapons, and so Ruffian weapon group is nice (Clubs, Stilletos and Sabers) since in all those groups there are Draining weapons: http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Club / http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Stiletto / http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Sabre Knight weapon group is also nice, since there are swords there, and there is one sword who have 3 DR pass: http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Sword and Axes: http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Battle_axe Non Moon-God Like race requires Drainin weapon to keep you alive against big pack of mobs. Especially strong, slow hitting (ogres for example). However in the end you need draining weapon for last boss battle if you are solo. Cheers

Well good to know. I won't patch my game from this day on I like it concept too much. I feel like Gutts from Berserker :D

IMO between 80 and 90 Deflection is good enough with high Damage Reduction (from 20 to 22/24) for any non-tank solo or main char build. Such stat you can get with even 10 Perception and 10 Resolve with end/mid-game items. Rings, cape, Shield will all let you reach it easly. As for Damage Reduction Pull Plate (16 base DR) plus at least +4 from quality enchant and some racial or class you can achieve pretty much. If you however plan to build strict tank character than Deflection above 100 at least. High Con and resistances are best. Dump stats- DEX and INT, and also somehow Might (like you don’t need max here). Damage Reduction same, highest as possible. Also if armor has slash/pierce resitances (like plates) make sure to enchant it also for Crush damage so you have 3 great DRs on char/tank. Hope it helps! Cheers!

Since when is it less damage? If we're talking vs. a large group and vs. Barb? Perhaps, but I think that's balanced that Barb is ideal for the groups and Monk vs. the fewer, singular targets. As for less damage than Rogue? Torment's Reach = Guarenteed crit. A crit is 50% additional damage, Torment's Reach is 50% crush damage. If you get a Monk with multiple wounds, you can "crit" every half second. It's very hard to outdo that. Rogue matches that damage for as long as an ailment like Blinding Strike is up, but loses out once that advantage is gone. Monk on the other hand can save up and utilize it's extra damage whenever it pleases. Sorry, but if there are AT LEAST 2 enemies OSA plus Carnage plus Retalitation will out DPS monk in first few hits from enemies- it goes like-> (enemy) Hit, hit, hit, hit (2x per enemy and lets say you hit one if them ONCE of them and you have ONE retalitaion item): you see damage to enemies 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50 and 20-40, 20-40 (your one hit plus Carnage proc), even if half of those won't hit (but they do most time) the DPS of barb is insane. And you can use Animancer boots to it if you want and just insta-kill ANY ENEMY group in game or 2 enemies. Monk is better in 1v1. But when at least 2v1 barb out DPS him, simple becasue of Carnage: EVERY hit proc two times. I don't think bug abuse should be brought into this disussion Sorry, but as long as devs do not confirm that OSA is bugged or OP (and they didn’t in any thread or patch notes), which I don’t belive it is, for me this talent is perfectly fine and good. You see thanks to OSA barbarian does best what he should does best- annihilate group of mobs in melee combat better than any other class. That is his mechanic- Carnage and OSA. He should be MUCH more capable in dealing with group of mobs. Even loading screen information gives you tip to do that- “send barbarian on group of mobs”. It is Retalitation enchant that imo is bugged, since it proc from every melee/damage bonuses in-game and stack with 2 items configuration: Shied+Armor and Shield+Cape. Same as Jolting Touch spell is considered a melee ability. Those are true bugs. We are after 4 patches to Phillars and some skills were already fixed by simple number tweaks (Mind Blades to not look far). OSA tweak would require just changing a number of bonus it gives to 1.2. However it wasn’t done so far, and it is matter of minute to tweak- so I assume that OSA I perfect fine and berserker-like skill. It is retalitation enchant that devs imo did not think through and instead of being nice support for tank (so he do some more damage) it is meta-gear for most solo builds: especially Rouges, Barbs or Ciphers (Focus generating- that is bugged imo).

Since when is it less damage? If we're talking vs. a large group and vs. Barb? Perhaps, but I think that's balanced that Barb is ideal for the groups and Monk vs. the fewer, singular targets. As for less damage than Rogue? Torment's Reach = Guarenteed crit. A crit is 50% additional damage, Torment's Reach is 50% crush damage. If you get a Monk with multiple wounds, you can "crit" every half second. It's very hard to outdo that. Rogue matches that damage for as long as an ailment like Blinding Strike is up, but loses out once that advantage is gone. Monk on the other hand can save up and utilize it's extra damage whenever it pleases. Sorry, but if there are AT LEAST 2 enemies OSA plus Carnage plus Retalitation will out DPS monk in first few hits from enemies- it goes like-> (enemy) Hit, hit, hit, hit (2x per enemy and lets say you hit one if them ONCE of them and you have ONE retalitaion item): you see damage to enemies 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50, 30-50 and 20-40, 20-40 (your one hit plus Carnage proc), even if half of those won't hit (but they do most time) the DPS of barb is insane. And you can use Animancer boots to it if you want and just insta-kill ANY ENEMY group in game or 2 enemies. Monk is better in 1v1. But when at least 2v1 barb out DPS him, simple becasue of Carnage: EVERY hit proc two times.

Gotta say that: on 1v1 Monk is better, but not by much margin. Barbarian on single target can only Frenzy (+4 Might or +6 upgraded) Blooded (50% endurance) 25% damage and...thats it. For all rest his super abilities he need at least two enemies. Monk on 1v1 can get I think about 50% more damage... But then again, Cipher can get 40% perma more damage while perma paralyze target in 1v1 fight. But now- the questions is: how much in this game you fight 1v1. Early on, becasue you can't take more. But once you get at least one retalitation item- barbarian just walks through biggest, hardest packs of mobs in game, being perma stun or not, they just vaporize. Also HUGE plus for Barbarian is Defiance. Best self-heal skill in game and is 1 per fight to use. Monk might be good but if you are looking for best 1v1 class I think Cipher/Rouge will do better. And if you are looking for AOE group nuker (90% of game)- Barbarian is the ultimate class for it. You are much better just taking Accurate Carnage/Greater Frenzy/thick skinned/Dual Weapon/2x Weapon Group Focus (for more Accuracy wit more weapons)/Deflection talents/Some active skills etc. Brute Force and TP are both useless skills right now. Good thing about barb is you need only: OSA, Blooded, Defiance and Stalwark Defiance for build to work. Everything else- you can choose whatever you like the most .