Brimsurfer

could be pretty good on a melee wizard or priest...only guessing though, haven't tried it myself.

you could say some classes does better than a paladin solo , you could say some parties are better without paladins , But any party? you fkin nuts You are welcome try yourself......

Nobody hates Paladins, because if they did nobody would have cared and they wouldn't be complaining. Solo means nothing, if you want to play solo its up to you. People are talking about that Paladins fade in COMPARISON to other classes, when played in a party. In a party every other class does better than Paladins. There is basically no reason to waste a slot on a Paladin, you'll be better off with ANY other class. And now please don't say that its better to have a Paladin than having two of any class, because there is absolutely no reason you should pick two characters of same class, since there are 10 other classes to pick from and only 6 party slots. Even in Solo games, if a Pally can do it then it means that everyone can do it.

Man thats not fair, why did you put paladin and ranger together in poll options? Both of these classes are worlds apart.......

Happened to me sometimes as well, even before the patch

You'll be better off as Chanter.....

I just hope they give something to Paladins in coming patches, that will bring them at par with other classes in terms of usefulness and efficiency (not in play style). So that people stop saying that a 'Paladin is better than having a SECOND priest or SECOND chanter or SECOND fighter or SECOND MONK etc'.....and start saying that "Paladin is a great alternative to replace your ONLY priest or ONLY fighter or ONLY chanter etc....".

Well, will there be an option to create Multi-classes at some point in the future? Is there any word on that, does anyone know?

But Is there a way to get a killing blow consistently with the Bleak Walker to keep enemies debuffed? Because among the heavy hitters like rogues and rangers and aoe nukers like druids and wizards, I don't see Paladins getting killing blows, specially in PotD as enemies are relatively more resilient.....

Party can have up to 6 members and there are only 3 primary roles in this game, you can have two of each role in a party easily, you will never need a jack of all trades in this meta, unless that jack of all trades has the potential to become a damage dealer but Paladins are no damage dealers. And also the 10 other classes are all specialists. I also agree with Longknife though, where he said the issue lies in the contribution numbers....that is absolutely true.

In my experience I am finding out that pretty much any class is more useful than Paladins, in any kind of party composition; For example, If I want a full tank, Fighter or a Monk are definitely better options than a Paladin If I want a full second tank or dps-off tank, Monk is a much better option, or a Barbarian will also do better than a Paladin If I want a semi-tank support or support off-tank (whatever you want to call it), Chanter is my best bet, works a lot better than Paladin (Also I am playing a heavy armor melee Priest, she is not an off-tank but she is actually holding out her own very well in melee, proving quite resilient, against an enemy or two in melee......and she is also doing a hell of a job supporting the whole party) If I want full support, I rather get a Priest instead of Paladin, because Priests are much better supporters. If I want a damage dealer, I shouldn't even think about Paladins, specially when I have Druids, Wizards, Rogues and Rangers to pick from. Now, I understand that Paladin does not excel at any of these roles but he does little bit of everything.........but whats the point? Really what IS the point of having a class that does a little bit of everything but does not excel or focus at anything, specially when there are 10 other classes to pick from and the maximum party size is 6. I just don't understand the design here, what is the point here in designing such a class in a game with this given meta? Now take a look at this............One guy is a specialised surgeon, the other is an astronaut, the third is a doctor of physics, the fourth guy is a civil engineer and now this guy here.............. he is a really SPECIAL guy he can do little bit of everything, he can diagnose a little bit of cough and fever and he knows the name of couple of solar systems, he also teaches second grade maths at local junior high...... oh and he also knows a little bit about driving bulldozers to level the roads and concrete........?!?!?!...........seriously what is the point? This guy will never be able to compete or measure up against the first four guys, he is more like a jack-ass than jack of all trades, if compared to the other four. And this is what I have found in my limited time, while playing as Paladin (PotD). I read basically the similar things about Paladins all over reddit and in several topics on this forum, though none of the posts were as blunt as my example above but the idea behind the criticism was the same.

you know what's really funny? you didn't even notice that that paly was one of the first potd solos posted. before anyone posted a fighter run. hmmm. The guy who has never played the game in PotD difficulty, is arguing about comparative usefulness of a class in a full party on PotD difficulty ......... and for some reason he doesn't even stop to think what he is talking about or if he is even qualified to talk about it but yet he keeps arguing..........lol?.......you are so full of yourself, mate. Also this thread is not about soloing PotD and its also not about whether Pally's can solo it or not. I just wish you use your head before posting random stuff otherwise just take your dumbo **** somewhere else, please. I only wanted to discuss the comparative usefulness of Paladins in a party because I did not want to feel like a second class member or a rather less useful member of my party where someone else make things happen and I just tag along doing a little bit of this and little bit of that, I did not want to be that guy, I believe I stated that specifically.......but yet you started talking about solo runs........seriously mate, just learn to read or at least try to use your head.

Gromnir is a half-orc character in BG2-Throne of Bhaal who sometimes talks about himself in third person or plural. That "hah, good fun" stuff is also a quote by him. It was fine in the game. On a forum, however, I find it annoying and harder to read, but that's freedom of speech for you. Yea I remember Gromnir the Bhaalspawn and that morningstar he use to drop... I loved that morning star so much, i used IE to modify it to a +5 weapon lol.

I kindly blame you for not putting "PotD" in the thread subject. Yes, the first post has the acronym, but it can be easily read as "Paladins are bad, by the way I play PotD". Yes I realise it now, I forgot to do that....but still first post is clear and straight forward and it says that I am basically trying to get the feedback for a PotD playthrough..... The title of this topic is based on what I have been reading everywhere on this forum and on reddit, and the reason to start this topic is to find out if there was any truth in what I read.......in the mean while I also got the chance to play a Paladin in PotD, although not for an extensive period of time and in my experience I did find them lacking in comparison to tanky front liners or any of the support classes. Now I do understand the concept of the class, its a front line support class but it feels like the party would be stronger and more efficient without a hybrid semi support class that is Paladin, or at least in its current state it feels kind of weak..... But then again my experience with Paladins in PotD is limited but it does sort of confirms what all these topics on this forum and reddit say about the class being the underdog and all. So now I don't know what to say......

It seems to me world is moving in one direction and you are moving in another, mate. There are hardly any people on this whole forum except may be only a very few who may agree with what you are saying, at least I have yet to come across any of them........And if there are indeed some who think like you, as you keep claiming, then where are these people?.........I have been reading the whole forum on this and even in this topic......most people are saying the opposite of what you are claiming, and the ones who are saying the positive things about the current state of Paladins are the ones who played the game on lower difficulties that aren't hard enough to stretch the classes to the point where all wrinkles can be exposed and a meaningful comparison can be drawn. And I only wanted to know about the effectiveness of Paladin class within the context of PotD, that was the whole point of starting this thread as I started a new PotD campaign with a Paladin but I didn't want my main character to be the least effective or even a second class member of my party, so I inquired about the usefulness of Paladins and the feedback I have received for the most part is that, PotD is do-able with Paladins, but more or less people consider Paladins to be the underdog class of this game. And the fact that you compare having a Paladin with having a SECOND fighter or second of any other class , is a proof that Paladins are indeed a notch below than other classes that fit within the same role. Because even as off-tank or hybrid front line support class, Paladin is appearing to be weaker than other classes of the ilk. For example, if built properly Priest or Chanter can also hold their own in melee (I am playing a melee priest now, she is doing very well ......stopping the enemies who manage to get past my fighter) while providing much better support than Paladin. So i don't know what to say but in the light of my experience and what most of others are saying, my opinion is starting form against having a paladin in my party.... EDIT: And BTW forgive my ignorance but who is 'WE'?.....You keep saying *'WE' think* or *'WE' believe*, is that like a royal WE or what? you aren't even paying attention to this thread if you believe Gromnir is the only personage who sees worth in the paladin as a support class. therefore, most o' your post is based on a ridiculous premise that is ultimately meaningless anyway. follow the herd mentality has always been a suspect course o' action. nevertheless, since you brought up your imaginary 95% figure, we observed that many beta folks , folks with far more experience in the game than the average current poster, were near split on the paladin v. fighter as the best tank... though more than a few suggested that chanters were actual the best in that role. https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/71065-480-tank-advice-for-a-main-pc-with-full-party-of-story-companions/?p=1583973 https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/71286-paladins-support-only/?p=1587993 "Yeah, paladins have pretty garbage offense. They make for the best pure tanks, though." is a common enough quote from a beta backer who has been playing the game for over 9 months. is more than a few such threads and quotes. priests as tank, off or otherwise? HA! we love our combat priests, but you are showing a fundamental lack o' understanding o' the game mechanics if you are genuine in suggesting that priests better fulfill an off-tank role in poe. alternatively, such stuff kinda undercuts whatever claims you could possibly make concerning your rationality and objectivity regarding paladins if you place priests ahead o' the knightly order class insofar as tankyness. am not sure what axe you got to grind regarding paladins. did pallagenia spit in your caeser salad? being silly. HA! Good Fun! I think you are just in denial.......things you are saying don't make sense they are going against experience and the popular opinion (most of this forum and most of reddit community)........there is no point in discussing anything with you because you are not discussing, you are just repeating the same thing over and over again like a stuck recorder disc. But anyway I am playing a Priest now.....so this doesn't matter any more.

no. this is not correct. the difference is NOT the level of difficulty, but whether your PC was a paladin vs one of your NPC crew. it makes a HUGE difference because of faith and conviction. those of us like myself, that played a paladin as our main, will have a very different view of them. I played hard since the very moment I could add a companion, and felt the pally was perfectly suited to an off tank and support role. have been quite happy with it overall, only feeling like the auras should be party wide instead of area, and perhaps have some level scaling involved. but other than minor tweaks, I had no problems at all using my paly as an off tank and arbalest user. none. bull****. What I said is 100% true in my experience. PotD is a very different experience than any other difficulty , if you do not want to accept that then its your business but you have not played the game on PotD as Paladin and I am only looking for PotD specific feedback, your insight do not have the experience that I am looking for......... Thank you very much but we will not be proceeding with your app.... Just learn to read mate, what's the point in posting in a topic without reading it or the information that's already been posted before you.

It seems to me world is moving in one direction and you are moving in another, mate. There are hardly any people on this whole forum except may be only a very few who may agree with what you are saying, at least I have yet to come across any of them........And if there are indeed some who think like you, as you keep claiming, then where are these people?.........I have been reading the whole forum on this and even in this topic......most people are saying the opposite of what you are claiming, and the ones who are saying the positive things about the current state of Paladins are the ones who played the game on lower difficulties that aren't hard enough to stretch the classes to the point where all wrinkles can be exposed and a meaningful comparison can be drawn. And I only wanted to know about the effectiveness of Paladin class within the context of PotD, that was the whole point of starting this thread as I started a new PotD campaign with a Paladin but I didn't want my main character to be the least effective or even a second class member of my party, so I inquired about the usefulness of Paladins and the feedback I have received for the most part is that, PotD is do-able with Paladins, but more or less people consider Paladins to be the underdog class of this game. And the fact that you compare having a Paladin with having a SECOND fighter or second of any other class , is a proof that Paladins are indeed a notch below than other classes that fit within the same role. Because even as off-tank or hybrid front line support class, Paladin is appearing to be weaker than other classes of the ilk. For example, if built properly Priest or Chanter can also hold their own in melee (I am playing a melee priest now, she is doing very well ......stopping the enemies who manage to get past my fighter) while providing much better support than Paladin. So i don't know what to say but in the light of my experience and what most of others are saying, my opinion is starting form against having a paladin in my party.... EDIT: And BTW forgive my ignorance but who is 'WE'?.....You keep saying *'WE' think* or *'WE' believe*, is that like a royal WE or what?

I think that finishing the game on hard or normal shouldn't have too much bearing on the discussion, really. As long as people talk and measure the Paladin as a class amongst other classes, they should be on point. However talking about something being "viable to finish the game" is pointless and not really the point of the thread, considering it's been proven over and over again that you can finish the game solo with any class on any difficulty. Apparently you haven't read my original post so the purpose of why I started this topic is lost on you....... I say the same to you my friend, what I said to the guy above.........I started this topic to seek a certain kind of info......if you read my original post, you will find out that I am talking about the effectiveness of Paladins specifically in PotD scenario........and no where have I said that PotD is the correct way of playing the game..

I had no idea you were supposed to find new companions and come back when I first played this game. I went with the tanky paladin build suggested pretty much on the day the game was released: hearth orlan shield bearer 6, 10, 6, 20, 13, 20 for stats, IIRC. not only did I manage to solo everything between the starter dungeon and gilded vale, I did the bear too. took 3 tries, but I did it. so it's entirely doable solo (at least on normal) with a paladin. As soon as I had 2 companions, I boosted the difficulty to hard. Paly still felt like a valuable member of the team to me, both in combat and out, all the way to the end. I still think the ONLY thing paly's need is a bump to their support features, like say a customizable aura that works for all party members, instead of just by a tiny area, and scales with level, and making it more flexible in which traits you can choose on levelup (e.g., don't force a paly to choose the lay on hands ability if they later want to choose the ability that supresses buffs on enemies). that's it. that's all they need. Well you played on normal and hard difficulty, this topic is about PotD playthrough. Differences in performance exists in those difficulties as well, but in lower difficulties the encounters aren't hard enough so as to bring these differences into light. Its mostly in PotD when you get close to realise the full potential of the classes and the contrast between class performances lights up like a Christmas tree on Christmas eve.

Yes I agree Paladin take only one party slot but he is not a full time tank like a fighter and YOU ARE going to get a Fighter anyway (95% of the player base thinks Fighter is indispensable when it comes to tanking)......so that's two slots (Fighter <almost mandatory> + Paladin so thats 1+1 = 2), its not one slot, it will never be one slot. Because having a Paladin does not eliminate the need of having a Fighter in your party (or even a Priest, for that matter, when you compare the priest support numbers with pally support numbers) So now that you have your Fighter, then why waste the second slot on Pally since you already have a full time tank.....the wise choice would be a Priest and not a Paladin since Paladin, as we mentioned above, is also not a full time support class. And if you want an off tank to add more tankiness to your party, you'll be better off with a Monk (can be a really devastating off tank) or get a tanky Chanter..... Not to mention a properly played Priest can indeed take a few blows as well (I am currently playing a Dual Wielding Priest of Skaen <PotD> and she is holding her own very well in melee, while providing support to the rest of the party). Also, even Barbarian is a better choice, he comes with good aoe dps and he can indeed take few blows and make things more manageable for your Fighter, by quickly disposing off the enemies (unlike Paladin, while holding the line). So I am not quite sure about where does Paladin fit in? However if a Paladin had an AoE taunt or an intimidation aura then he could replace your Fighter, offering you a new approach or a different style of tanking with lesser damage but with front line support increasing the dps and capabilities of your other melee characters.

Yeah I tried a two-handed Pally... but that shield.... +5 all Defenses on the whole party is just way to good to pass up Give that shield to your fighter or cleric or chanter or druid?

Has anyone tried a dual wielding Paladin or a Paladin with Two-Handed weapons? I am guessing will be much better than sword and shield pally.... At one point I thought about rolling a high perception paladin specialising in two handed morning stars, my plan was to become the lord of interrupts.....but now with so much negative feedback about overall pally performance, I have kind of given up on it.

This may be a stupid question, but I just have to make sure.............does two handed weapon style talent bonuses apply to two handed ranged weapons as well, like bows or crossbows etc.... or is it just the melee weapons? Thanks

Chanter auto attack is the same as any other average accuracy class auto attack and as Eos mentioned i'll pick up ranged combat talents (with specific weapon specialisations) and i can go; 16 in each might, dex and intel.........and; 10 in each cons, perc and res ........ (or may be 8 in perc and res; and go 18 in might and intel).......... sounds promising..... I would argue that what makes chanters broken is that they can maintain high DPS while bein as tanky as possible. My 137 deflection chanter was able to maintain a DPS of 7 damage per second+autoattacks+scrolls whatever just by standing there chanting the dragon chant. This damage is AOE so skyrockets when the chanter is surrounded and can further skyrocket if you chant cycle (switch between two dragon chants (the DOT normally hits every 2 seconds but if you switch between two chants you can apply a new DOT and because it hits once when it applies and you can apply it much faster than every 2 seconds you damage goes up my a huge amount. Not to mention drakes/ogres/ice spikes, the most useful of which i think is ice spikes as long as you run out of rangeof the rest of your party as the damage is huge and his allies and enemies. What melee style are you using? two handed, dual wield or sword shield? Hatchet and shield, with all my talents aside from scion of flame in teh defensive tree. My DPS pre level 9 was nothing but as soon as i got the level 9 chant i just because super OP, like walk into a room and everyone dies OP I hope its not broken.......but anyway i'll take a look into this..

Chanter auto attack is the same as any other average accuracy class auto attack and as Eos mentioned i'll pick up ranged combat talents (with specific weapon specialisations) and i can go; 16 in each might, dex and intel.........and; 10 in each cons, perc and res ........ (or may be 8 in perc and res; and go 18 in might and intel).......... sounds promising..... I would argue that what makes chanters broken is that they can maintain high DPS while bein as tanky as possible. My 137 deflection chanter was able to maintain a DPS of 7 damage per second+autoattacks+scrolls whatever just by standing there chanting the dragon chant. This damage is AOE so skyrockets when the chanter is surrounded and can further skyrocket if you chant cycle (switch between two dragon chants (the DOT normally hits every 2 seconds but if you switch between two chants you can apply a new DOT and because it hits once when it applies and you can apply it much faster than every 2 seconds you damage goes up my a huge amount. Not to mention drakes/ogres/ice spikes, the most useful of which i think is ice spikes as long as you run out of rangeof the rest of your party as the damage is huge and his allies and enemies. What melee style are you using? two handed, dual wield or sword shield?