Blarghagh

At this point I think that everyone still willingly involved does so out of hate rather than any real goals.

So if gender is social no one should care about the biological reality. But people do very strongly seek to align one with the other in this case. Gloria Steinem, is that you?

I think I dumped #GamerGate at a good time. Afterwards, they really turned to hell. Alum is fairly correct in that everyone becomes a target. Hell, I was briefly a target HERE. Zero post accounts made entirely to send me some really, really, nasty messages. I was also accused of paying people to post pro-Obsidian messages on GamerGate related boards, which is amusing since I don't even get paid.

Not really, because the study in question doesn't cite the reason for the suicides, only the fact that they happened. As far as we know, they could've committed suicide because society as a whole is immensely hostile to trans people. Or because gender reassignment surgery is only seen as a last resort by doctors, therefore the subset of people who undergo the procedure experience the problem far more strongly than those who do not. It's incredibly irresponsible to jump to conclusions at this point. Some of them do. They're generally not considered to be nice people. I do feel that this article is somewhat disingenuous as this form of transphobia is more widespread in the feminist movement as this "rational wiki" article implies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_views_on_transgenderism_and_transsexualism#Feminist_exclusion_of_transgender_and_transsexual_people I'm sorry, but that's a grand total of 4 examples. Not exactly "widespread". There's more examples, I just couldn't find a master list. I also didn't claim it was "widespread", per se, rather than just more widespread than that article implies - it is widespread enough, however, for feminist publications to recognize it as a longterm failing of the movement. Regardless of that, there are still countless books and manifestos on the subject, including the infamous "The Transsexual Empire" that considers transgenderism to be a patriarchy tool to reinforce social gender constructs (needless to say, pro-trans organisations, feminist or otherwise, classify it as hate speech). However, that book was inspired by words of feminist figurehead Gloria Steinem that many feminists still use as justification for transphobia. From Gloria Steinem's Wiki Page referencing her work Outrageous Acts and Everyday Rebellions: Of course, it should be noted that Steinem has publically apologized and reconsidered her stance, but I still see it quoted from time to time even in mainstream feminist discussions. That Rational Wiki article portends that TERFs are persona non grata by default in the feminist community but that is simply not true - it's true that feminism on a whole is more accepting of male to female transgenders than society is, yet some significant feminist circles are much more intolerant of transgenderism. And let's note that I specified male to female, because female to male transgenderism very often goes entirely unacknowledged by feminist circles other than the occassional insane radfem calling them "gender traitors". Female to male transgenders just seem to get "othered" by feminism. EDIT: Regarding your statement about my conclusion, yes, that was indeed a bit of jump on my part. Not one that I took a lot of time to think through. Your debunking of it supports my initial argument of "we need more research" though.

This would explain why I used to hate cats until I had one.

Official note. I would like to make the moderation stance clear since this is a very grey area and we do not wish to police what people are allowed to talk about, despite how many other people might find some subjects distasteful. We will allow this discussion as long as people remain civil. Using slurs for transgendered people is not acceptable here regardless of your opinion. Whether you personally find transgenders acceptable or consider them to have a mental illness is irrelevant, because in both cases using slurs or insults breaks one of our rules on discrimination - sexism or ableism. Posts meant only to shame transgender people are subject to deletion and members who post such things will receive warnings and the thread will be closed if civility goes out the window. To be clear, the rest of the post is my personal opinion. Hear hear. I don't agree with you often, but when I do it's because you're making boatloads of sense. My personal opinion is that I would like to see more research done. Some recent findings that I read a while ago (sadly, I could not find the studies again, I hope someone else can find the source) suggested that known gender dysphoria sufferers suicide rates go up after transition. This would seem to suggest that even the transition to being another gender physically does not solve the disconnect and may be futile. Of course, a fundamental flaw of these studies is that it doesn't take into account how many people may be suffering from gender dysphoria but hide it or are not getting help (and I completely understand why they would not, considering popular culture generally treats transgendered people as either punchlines or serial killers). What I do find concerning is that the communities who are supposedly inclusive for transgendered people seem to shun transgenders who come out and admit that they regret transitioning. That doesn't seem like any kind of inclusivity to me. They also like to ruin the reputations of doctors who talk about such cases simply because they give transgenders negative publicity, despite only stating facts. The fact of the matter is that currently, there are no better therapeutic options for people who suffer from gender dysphoria. Until a different or a better solution is found, transitioning is the closest thing we have to giving people who suffer from gender dysphoria treatment. Some of them do. They're generally not considered to be nice people. I do feel that this article is somewhat disingenuous as this form of transphobia is more widespread in the feminist movement as this "rational wiki" article implies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Womyn-born_womyn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_views_on_transgenderism_and_transsexualism#Feminist_exclusion_of_transgender_and_transsexual_people

Those people at Undead Labs must be deaf. If you hear ****er in this, you need to go see a doctor. Seriously. I am not kidding, I am not trying to offend anyone, I am literally saying there is a 100% chance you have problems with your hearing.

I don't know, I'm not hating it judging it only as a look, but it doesn't seem particularly true to the character to me. The Joker doesn't strike me as someone who can even sit still long enough to have someone tattoo on him, let alone letting them being "badass" tattoos rather than some kind of horrible joke.

Yup. ...maybe some of you need better speakers/sound cards. Or headphones. I hear bugger clear as day. I don't even understand how anyone could hear something else. He even overpronounces the B. Judging by the the amount of time he says ****ing in the rest of the piece and how different that sounds, there is no way he isn't say bugger, as his u in bugger is also much closer to an o sound ("bogger") then the u sound in ****ing, let alone how differently he enunciates the f.

Somebody told me to watch Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. I feel like my brain is melting. I'm not sure what is happening at all.

Take a raincoat, you stupid bugger. Clear as day, no mistaking it.

Yeah, he needled the anti-gg people constantly as well, probably even worse.

That was actually pretty clever, despite a little aftertaste of strawman. Thumbs up!

Ain't that the truth.

Go take Jemisin's posts, her Wiscon speech, and her tweets. Replace every case of white man or derivative thereof with jew, and you get propaganda that Goebbels would be proud of. Hell, toss an email to the guy running the interview to ask Vox the question 'Would you consider Hitler a savage' The answer would certainly be amusing. As for your assertion that he claims Europe is already dead, that was from a 2005 article in which he blames the women's rights movement on the decreasing birth rates in first world countries. He also says, more or less, that it is quickly coming to apply to America. It's certainly an interesting argument, and to my knowledge there have been no good studies that have attempted to determine the cause of said decline in birth rates and what exactly they are attributable to. In any case, he's certainly not saying that women's rights themselves will cause the collapse of European civilization. So, again, not exactly seeing the utter disdain that you treat him with. You have a very charitable reading of it that argument, since that certainly is what he is saying. As for what Jemisin said, I don't care. Her feminist propoganda nonsense is no excuse for him to be a racist jerk. As for him blaming the women's rights movement for decreasing birthrate, that is again either a charitable reading or gross misrepresentation. The point he's making with that isn't that the birthrate decreased in first world countries, it's that feminism is responsible for female infanticide in china and india. Which is of course ridiculous. The man is a fool and fools like this are why MRA is considered a punchline. The only saving grace for that is that feminist is quickly reaching the same status. That is quite possibly the oddest interpretation possible for that article. Although not really surprising as the article in a lot of ways is a stream of consciousness mess. Apparently WND has no editors. In any case the sex selection problem in China and India came about long before early sex identification for embryos. It was a problem around the turn of the century. As in 1900. The cultures over there are highly biased towards male children in terms of status. Thus girl children were generally killed after birth or when ultrasound first became available fairly late in the process. Early sex selection has merely accelerated the process. His point was that WRA's rather hypocritically have to argue against rather arbitrary choice in why to have an abortion and was almost certainly a direct response to this study and any surrounding discussion. Once again, context saves the Day. Heh, I made a pun. This seems like a fairly clear cause and effect statement to me, but I may be reading it wrong Like you said, it's a very oddly written piece. Either it's a stream of consciousness mess, or he's using obfuscating language to make it seem less offensive. He did a lot of that in his "reply" to the black author whose name I forgot too.

Go take Jemisin's posts, her Wiscon speech, and her tweets. Replace every case of white man or derivative thereof with jew, and you get propaganda that Goebbels would be proud of. Hell, toss an email to the guy running the interview to ask Vox the question 'Would you consider Hitler a savage' The answer would certainly be amusing. As for your assertion that he claims Europe is already dead, that was from a 2005 article in which he blames the women's rights movement on the decreasing birth rates in first world countries. He also says, more or less, that it is quickly coming to apply to America. It's certainly an interesting argument, and to my knowledge there have been no good studies that have attempted to determine the cause of said decline in birth rates and what exactly they are attributable to. In any case, he's certainly not saying that women's rights themselves will cause the collapse of European civilization. So, again, not exactly seeing the utter disdain that you treat him with. You have a very charitable reading of it that argument, since that certainly is what he is saying. As for what Jemisin said, I don't care. Her feminist propoganda nonsense is no excuse for him to be a racist jerk. As for him blaming the women's rights movement for decreasing birthrate, that is again either a charitable reading or gross misrepresentation. The point he's making with that isn't that the birthrate decreased in first world countries, it's that feminism is responsible for female infanticide in china and india. Which is of course ridiculous. The man is a fool and fools like this are why MRA is considered a punchline. The only saving grace for that is that feminist is quickly reaching the same status.

Yes, there are some people who would **** on you no matter what you say. But there're also people who would listen, and i think there's a lot more of them than extrimists. So it is important to actually say things. But at the end of the day, you distance yourself from crazies because they are crazy. I don't think you need any more reasons. Well, fair enough, but that's a whole other ballpark than "What does it matter what others say?" I feel.

What does it matter what others say? What's the point of distancing yourself from something in the first place, then? Distancing is a public thing. I know I don't agree with i.e. Milo's views on gender dysphoria, the only reason for me to distance myself from him here or in another public place would be to make others aware of that. In this case, people would just call "no true scotsman" and say you may not agree, but he still represents GG to the public.

Is it not valid because you wish it wouldn't happen? Because it is what's going to happen.

Yup. I'm wondering if any of that goes to Bethesda.

There's a lot of humor to be found in the comparison. Both sides insist that the death threats to Quinn or the #KillAllMen feminists do not represent their side while insisting they represent the other side - the entire debate has become an excercise in hypocrisy.

As if distancing would help. People would just throw "no true scotsman" at it.

What, like his view that Europe is already dead because women have more rights here and his assertions that women have it worse now because they are no longer required to be stay-at-home moms? His defense against being called racist being referring to a black author as " we recognize she is human, but not fully civilized" and a referring to people like her being "savages attacking white people"? I've read his 'writing' and taking him out of context often makes him look better. I'm not going to source them for you, especially because you tell me that I have to to. He is a reprehensible bastard and I do not nor will I ever owe you anything. He is allowed his opinions, and in return I am allowed to think he is one of the world's most massive ****.

What if Man of Steel was in color? Fascinating how gorgeous the movie looks without the boring filters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du-eYiD9OfM

My problem here is that whenever I use mods from the Steam workshop, 9 times out of 10 they don't work at all, don't work as intended or break something else. What's my motivation to try out mods that have a 10% chance of working at all, let alone don't know if they will be worth my time, if I have to pay money for it? I didn't get Assassin's Creed: Unity because it doesn't work. I'm not paying for the privelege of turning my other games into Assassin's Creed: Unity either.