Voss

welcome to the joys of an outdated wiki. Probably just an idea one of the devs bounced at some point.

Ugency? How does 'can't talk again* until next metagame checkpoint' foster a sense of urgency? *beyond 'hey, just checking in,' or one of the thousand variants thereof.

Orlans get a bit of dialogue here and there. Durance will flatly tell you that you deserve to be enslaved and killed. But yeah, I also felt... underwhelmed at the end of Chapter 2. Railroad plot ahoy! Make your own choices? Sure, but don't expect them to be part of the story we want to tell. [Pick the green light]

Ah, I could see that working too.

Nothing really suggests that. In fact, the game is pretty open about the idea that souls go to the Wheel and back again without the gods, and that is the default state of the world. The only way the gods get anything out of it is if machines (built and operated by people) trap and feed souls to them, quite contrary to the natural order of the world. The comparison with Od Nua is apt however, because the basic character of the Engwithans seemed to be a fundamental inability to accept reality, and to break it, and sacrifice everyone around them until the world is forced to conform to their selfish desires. Nothing is forbidden, as long as the universe obeys. @atnas- I think that is part of the problem with the 'system' that was setup. The 'function' is to give 'lesser' peoples (everyone who was getting along just fine without 'real' gods) a form of social control. But the nature of the 'gods' created by the system isn't really related to that function. They represent (and are strictly limited to) their own natures, and nothing more. For those three gods, people advancing/changing/shaping themselves fits with their nature, so they fundamentally can't do anything but approve of it, even if it somehow causes problems for the gods themselves.

To do anything with the House, you have to go down to the docks and do a delivery for a merchant. Just look for the crazy bird lady.

Bounty hut, curio shop and garden. Those give you things. Everything else is pretty much worthless. You're much better off paying for an inn than staying at home.

I'm curious if at this point if the changes of the new patch will remain a mystery until monday afternoon. Or maybe they'll take that off, so Tuesday, then.

1) Eder, Kana, Sagani -Real people with rational motivations and well developed backstories 2) Hiravias -amusing little ball of filth 3) Aloth -attempting... something with this story. Rather ruined by the 'twist' and just being able to end the problem by frowning hard. Right after being told that wasn't even possible. 4) Pallegina -cardboard cutout 5) Durance and Grieving Mother -the monster happily supporting atrocities waiting to judge you for... no apparent reason, nor rationale for how he even knows about you, and GM for the repetitive regurgitation of a book on dream analysis. And an extra thumbs down for just repeating the same stuff from Torment, specifically Ei-Vene and Mebbeth.

The gods are patently real with all the divine attributes. Are they? You 'talk' to 'something' in the place they are created, but then again, you talk to all sorts of dead people. Or possibly hallucinations. Or both. The Skaenites are blatantly using animancy to pursue their little plot, the godhammer seemed far more dependent on the people creating it than Magran. Was Waedwen really possessed by Eothas or just a watcher/cipher/animancer who stumbled on a ridiculous source of power? (like another soul trap?) Obviously this isn't something that would happen immediately, but it could involve spreading the idea through...say... that secret society that blindly obeys without needing to know anything at all. It obviously wouldn't resolve instantaneously at the end of the game, but something that could start in the ending sequence. It was your past life's obsession, to the point that it was supposedly destroying your mind in the present incarnation. Giving it a good hard think and doing something with that seed is definitely something a rational being could pursue. Instead we're presented with various options that show the people of the Dyrwood bowing and scraping in their ignorant adoration of the supposed gods even more.

I believe it has something to do with the dialogue response you choose initially as well. If you respond with something outside the tenants of the faith of Skaen, the pool tells you it can't make use of you. (or something like that).

And then you also find that he doesn't do a very good job (either way, actually). If you leave the tower machine in the city usable, 'per standing orders' the Leaden Key turns it on again. Good job, Aloth!

It does seem like something is missing. I had a random conversation with Durance that mentioned seeing him as missing half his soul or something along those lines. I had no such vision or seeing. Plus, most of the watcher stuff (random things and spirits, not just murder-mystery solver stuff) turns off really quickly and then back on at the end game. There should be something more to this watcher thing than solving minor crimes and having to resort to telling you that you don't sleep well. The game is entirely unconvincing on its major plot point.

Also, an 'expose gods as frauds' option. Since that is the fulcrum of the entire game...

If I recognize the terrible name correctly, she leads a team of assassins that you have to run into in Stormwall gorge after you complete chapter 2 and the water magically recedes in time with political events to open up the next track of railroad plot. You can basically talk her team down from attacking, and they leave. Mysteriously, she doesn't walk away and is instantly teleported into your dungeon instead.

Which? Almost all of them. I could make a fairly reasonable argument for only ever using hatchet (for tanks) and arbalest/arquebus for everyone else. I wouldn't actually want to play that way, but the weapon system definitely leans to that level of optimization.

Disagree on classes, weapons and talents/abilities. I find the classes to be straying pretty heavily into the failure state, with several (chanter, priest, paladin) providing very little of use to a party. Spells for wizard, cipher, and druid are another problem area, as the vast majority aren't ever worth using. Just spam the good ones over and over. Barbarian is questionable at best (other heavy hitters do better, aren't forced into melee, and carnage is... meh). Ranger is actually decent, though the pet is still a burden more often than a help. Chanter is probably the most egregious problem class now, since it just doesn't function with the games combat. It wants a slow buildup and the combat wants to be quick, nasty and effective. Weapons are an unqualified pile of junk with a handful worth taking, and the weapon groups are simply unintuitive and bizarre collections of random crap. There are just too many weapons that are simply never worth using. Talents and abiltiies, like spells and weapons are mostly garbage, with a handful that should always be taken. Except, sadly, the percentage is even higher- I'd say about 90% of talents are utterly worthless, with the remainder only useful for specific builds. At higher levels (8+), most ability and talent choices felt odd- like I was picking something because I had to pick something, not because I found something useful or interesting. Armor and stats, I'd agree are failures. As a game it has a fair amount of potential, but it needs a complete mechanical overhaul, preferably by someone not protecting his (very bad) pet ideas.

Oh, there's more to it? I have to admit I found it hard following his ramblings and reasoning at times and by the end I just wanted to finally resolve his quest before going after Thaos, but the only option I've had in the dialogue was "I think Magran was working with Woedica against Eothas". So... was there more to this? Are Magran's role and motives actually plainly revealed anywhere or left up for speculation just as Eothas? And while we're at it, why would Skaen suggest to the player to install Woedica as the ultimate big brother master? Theres more to what? Yes - there is more to Magran and the Godhammer. She was definitively not working with Woedica against Eothas. It's more that Eothas's avatar was overstepping his bounds by a great deal, and stepping into the territory of war (Magrans territory). Durance only got half a soul left, and there are two ways you can interpret this. <snip> As for Skaen. He is the Quiet Slave, the god of secret hatred, resentment, and violent rebellion. He stands to be second in power should Woedica get her souls as she wants. These gods all act according to their aspects. Where the other gods stand to loose should Woedica succeed he has many followers to gain. Meh, somehow somewhere my dialogues left only "Magran conspired with Woedica" option available, which left me scratching my head: "She's what now? Where did that come from? And I've just convinced Durance of this? [in Sagani's voice] What? What just happened!? " I should probably go back and re-read that conversation. And definitely should've given Skaen more thought, from this angle his peculiar behaviour makes perfect sense. Oh, the finer subtleties we might miss when rushing towards the end. It's a reflection of your watcher's own interpretation based on past dialogue. I think you have some different outcomes before it gets to that point if you act inquisitively enough. I guess it is important to note that whenever we finished a conversation Durance would often rebuff me with insults layered around talk of Wael. Yeah, pretty much anything your character says is just your own interpretation, which is quite interesting. Nobody ever comes along to tell you "This Is the Official Explanation". You have to decide what you think on your own, which is the recurring theme of the game--do you take other people's interpretations at face value and do what they say, or do you try and figure out your own path, knowing that the "answers" may never be clear? All the sub-plots basically revolve around the concept of coming to terms with uncertainty in some fashion. At the end, I basically took it as one thing: the motive of the gods in general is to maintain the status quo. Woedica and Eothas both upset this at various times and got squashed for it--now Woedica is out for revenge. She is basically like the Rogue Cop of the gods, breaking the rules and dishing out her own brand of "justice". You know, it just occurred to me that Waidwen's entire invasion of the Dyrwood may have been an attempt to put an end to Woedica's schemes in some way. Look at this: 1. Woedica gets uppity and the other gods squash her. 2. She sends Thaos to gather power for her using ancient Engwithan artifacts. He forms the Leaden Key toward this end. 3. Eothas, the god of forgiveness and redemption (and thus most directly opposed to Woedica) gets wind of this and can't figure out a way to counteract Thaos except by creating his own avatar. 4. Eothas selects Waidwen to be his avatar, possibly because conditions in Raedceras have driven enough people to the worship of Eothas that the god has sufficient power there to accomplish this. 5. Waidwen frees Raedceras and then, under direction from Eothas to stop Thaos at all costs, invades Dyrwood to try and accomplish this. 6. Eothas' actions piss off the other gods, particularly Magran, and she inspires her followers to create the Godhammer and blow Waidwen to Kingdom Come, thus leaving Thaos free to finish carrying out his schemes. So, in a sense the Hollowing really IS "Waidwen's Legacy", because this is what Eothas was attempting to prevent by invading the Dyrwood in the first place. That's speculation, but it does hang together nicely. The time line does not work out for your 6 steps there. 1) happens quite a while back (her temple in Defiance bay was burned during the rebellion against Aedyr, which was decades before), and background books point to her being squashed awhile back as well. 2) Thaos and the leaden key date back centuries, if not millennia. thus 3) falls apart 4) is questionable. There is nothing to suggest gods get anything from worship in this setting.. the forge god abydon (or whatever) seems to be pretty much abandoned. Souls give them power (and made them in the first place. Worship seems to serve just the basic function of social control. 5) there isn't any indication that thaos is in the dyrwood at this point. The 'legacy' (brought about by manipulating the machines) happens after the end of the war. 6) I'm not particularly convinced that Magran inspired the bomb. They may well have done it on their own, which explains several things, including the fires being out at the shrines in Defiance Bay, despite wider worship of Magran. Talking with Galawain, Magran and Abydon, its pretty clear what motivates Thaos (and therefor the Key), is animancy. The new science is explaining the world and moving people away from the gods. Those three accept that, due to their natures, but it makes everything Thaos has ever done pointless, and he can't accept that. He must keep the world the unchanging ball of misery he created, or every atrocity he ever committed was worth nothing.

There really isn't that much uncertainty, though. He (and his brother) could fight for their god, or their nation. His brother chose his god. Given that all Dyrwoodans are jerks, it isn't even much of a surprise. Of course, the gods are jerks too, but that never matters to believers.

Not enough information for the first one. The only distinction that matters in the game is tank or not tank. If you are blocking enemy pathfinding to the rest of the party (the part the does damage), you want Per and Res. If you aren't, you want might/int/dex or might/dex/int, depending a bit on class and talents you intend to tank. No one needs Con. The secondary defenses (ie, not Deflection). If they're good, that is a bonus, but it isn't a particularly important consideration for anyone.

He also seems to be the companion with the most commentary as you run around. Even if you don't want to have him in combat, just run around Defiance Bay with him while you accumulate quests.

The game literally hands you one when you arrive at Cad Nua. A fine one, in fact. And magical ones... there are a few. @Matt516- I've said it before, but I'll say it again. The emphasis on making various builds viable entirely failed. It may have been a goal, but it is not something they even came close to achieving. Many, if not most, character creation options are traps.

She hires people via telepathy. Why this doesn't freak them out is an open question.

Sometimes? The glanfathans are bizarrely indifferent to me killing large groups of people in various sacred parts of their city, but it may just be because the game wants me to kill those people.

Huh. I'm pretty shocked at the love for some of these characters. Durance struck me as a vile one dimensional monster and little else, and Grieving Mother read like someone was just spamming a 4chan chat with snippets of a really bad book on dream interpretation that he just 'discovered' the first year of college. The same snippets, over and over again, with really flat imagery. Palleginia was terribly one dimensional. Yep, discrimination is bad, and being a government servant means sometimes having to choose what is best for the government rather than your personal morals. Deeply, profoundly obvious. Aloth... eh. A twist that didn't even matter and a personal problem that after being told it wouldn't ever go away, he just... concentrated and it... went away. wtf? Hiravris is pretty strongly undermined by being forced to tag along with violating various ruins that aren't supposed to be violated. He verbally wags a finger at you (I think, twice), but it is completely irrelevant. And his personal quest was... weird. He didn't even seem to care about it, which didn't exactly sell me on it. Eder, Sagani and Kana stood out to me as real characters with a meaningful backstory that people might actually have. Not just cardboard cutouts, dreadful repeats of past IE game concepts recycled again, or painfully sophomoric tripe.