Jediphile

Actually, the primary point of the correction was not to judge your aptitude for syntax (woeful as it is); it was to point out the hypocrisy and ludicrous nature of your blatantly flawed and insensitive comments. Or did you not expect Aurora to respond to your trolling? Business pov? For an amateur project being completed by a brave group of fans for free? While most are doing finals? WTF? Even if you choose to measure their efforts so, they have thus far exceeded all expectations. Get a life, imbecile. You will never get a mention in a magazine by being a naysaying troglodyte. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now, now... I know what you mean, but forgive and forget. At least the guy apologized. That's more than I would have hoped for. And trolls just keep trolling no matter what you do. That was not the case here. I find that most people would rather stick to their position out of pride and stubborness rather than admit they erred. All trolls do. That also was not the case here, so let's give the guy a little credit on that account at least. Besides, I doubt the restoration team wants to listen to all this bickering, so if anyone has a problem, maybe it's time to just build and bridge and get over it...

Darth Sirius, you nailed it right on the head. One of the biggest holes in the game is the relative lack of the "non-bully" DS path. Some will argue otherwise but I think they are wrong. If you want to be so DSed that you get Force Crush, for instance, you ain't getting there with dialogue alone in this game. So that means if you are playing a smooth, diplomatic, manipulator-type character, you are not going to benefit from nearly as much DS stuff as THE BUTCHER who is always saying SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP! ... the first (LS), third (DS-BULLY) and fourth (NEUTRAL) of those they already have. what they need to add is DS-MANIPULATOR. That simple change would add so much more believeability and depth, even if you don't actually use it yourself. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I concur. There is no "Chaotic Evil" option, whereby a character employs misinformation, in the form of deliberate deception, to engineer an outcome without direct, front on assault. When faced with overwelming opposition, a Sith Lord in KotOR is only permitted a "Lawful Evil" frontal attack! More realistically would be a more Kreia-like method of divide-and-conquer, planting seeds of fear, uncertainty and doubt in the inds of the enemy, atacking their alliances and morale before their defences. This would, of course, require a lot more thought and effort in the writing stage. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Erm, isn't what you describe exactly what lawful evil is? Chaotic evil means chaotic, after all, which implies anarchistic tendencies with little tolerance for manipulation and rule-bending - that's exactly the DS bully we've seen in these games. Kreia is much closer to lawful or neutral evil than DS Revan or DS Exile are, since she does work within the system in order to manipulate it toward the results she wants, just as Palpatine does. Chaotic is utter rejection of the established rules and so is far less subtle and manipulative. Anyway, those are D&D alignments, and they are usually more trouble than they're worth in the first place - we probably shouldn't try to apply them to Star Wars unless we want this to turn into yet another of those undead alignment topics...

I don't quite agree. Yes, Revan was left out because he wasn't the protagonist, but the true Sith are not unknown - the Republic has fought the Sith Empire before, although it has been more than a thousand years since then. And saying that Revan just isn't the protagonist doesn't quite explain it. Revan is still out there, but his function in KotOR2 is to serve as a set-up for the coming conflict with the true Sith so that the Exile will follow and join him in that strugge no matter which side of the force either of them ended up on. That was the point of leaving Revan out of the story - to void the consequence of the choice between light or dark side for either character by the time the third game begins, so that the same story will serve either ending. That a manipulation of the story, yes, but it was done very skillfully and it was told well, so I do accept it. It may be forced, but it didn't throw away the credibility of the evolving plot. That's fairly important.

I'd perfer it if a previous developer of KotOR games makes the third installment, so yes. Bioware did good work in KotOR1, so I'd have no problem with that. Obsidian messed up the ending in KotOR2, but otherwise it was an excellent game, and I'm fairly confindent they will not allow themselves to be caught the same situation again based on what little we've heard them comment about that situation with Lucasarts. So I'd also be hopeful if Obsidian did KotOR3. Not to say I wouldn't consider it, if it was a totally different developer. It would depend on who it was, and a lot on whether it the game deals with the true Sith plot and what happened to Revan and the Exile - that's a must!

Then why do you get a dark side ponit for killing the guards? Yes, I killed them too playing light side, but I still had to take the dark side hit for it.

This very subject touched very closely to the plot I see for KotOR3 and which I'm currently describing in the KotOR3 topic on the Obsidian General forum (yes, shameless plug... ) As I see it, Revan sacrificed himself himself in order to fight the true Sith, but like Ulic he lost his way and was seduced by the dark side and his own thirst for power. If Malak hadn't betrayed him, he would have continued his conquest of the Republic and then used it's resources to conquer the Sith empire as well, once he had won. Revan either ends up either controlling the Starforge and the dark jedi-sith (DS ending) or defeating them for the Republic (DS ending) in the first game, but the true Sith are still waiting, and he must still fight them, either to save the Republic (LS) or to protect his own power (DS). But he knows that the true Sith are too powerful to face in an armed conflict, so he goes to the unknown regions to infiltrate their ranks from within, effectively sacrificing himself to his cause again. I'm not convinced Kreia supported his plan, but I do think she saw it and realized that she could not sway him away from it. The Exile was never part of her plan or of Revan's. As we learn in KotOR2, it was actually T3-M4 who went to find the Exile and bring him back to restore some form of order in the Republic, though T3-M4 may have been manipulated by Kreia toward that goal. Otherwise it seems rather convenient that Kreia just happens to be on the Ebon Hawk when it pick up the one individual who fits perfectly fits into her own plans to defy the jedi masters and combat the will of the force. I don't see the Exile's force bonds as inherently dangerous or damaging. After all, the Exile's companions seem completely unaffected by the bonds. The bonds just seem like a bad thing because they leech away force from others like parasites. The thing about the Exile, however, is that he is disjoined. On Malachor V he shed himself from the part of himself that was corrupted by the dark side, and that part of him then became Darth Nihilus. I was waiting for a scene where the Exile sees Nihilus' real face and recognizes him as a companion who died on Malachor V, preferably the Exile's old jedi master, which he should certainly have a very strong force bond with. So the dark part of the Exile that he is trying to deny finds into the dead body of his master and revives it, then uses it as a host. We didn't see that in KotOR2, however, because the Exile didn't fully realize it. He just realized that Nihilus was somehow changed on Malachor V like he was himself. I mean, isn't it rather odd that the Exile tells Visas to take Nihilus' mask and give it to him, but never actually looks at Nihilus' face himself? Well, he realized the truth on a subconscious level and chose not to face the truth. That the Exile ended up with Nihilus' mask was very telling... Now, when the Exile goes to the unknown regions in search of Revan, the two of them confront each other. Their battle ends with Revan capturing the Exile by using the truth against him. By forcing the Exile to see how he ran from the truth on Malachor V. Here we should see some flashbacks of Exile seeing Nihilus' face on the Ravager with Visas and Mandalore. This brings the Exile to a psychological breakthrough when he faces his past and accepts it, joining the broken pieces of his psyche together again. However, it also turns him to the dark side and he becomes the new Darth Nihilus, the Darth Nihilus that he was destined to become on Malachor V, but which he denied. He also becomes Revan's new apprentice in Revan's quest to assume the title of Dark Lord from the true Sith. Together they work to unite the fallen jedi as a new faction with the true Sith empire and thereby creating a Sith civil war. This was Revan's plan, and it may yet work, though even LS Revan knows that he cannot expect to fool the dark side - if the Republic is to survive, then he will have to either die or be converted back to the light side at some point. Bastila could be instrumental in that, which is why he left all his friends behind. The same is true for the Exile, though I doubt he realized it to the extent Revan did. The Exile just knew the danger and chose to go alone because he didn't want his friends to face the dark side with him, and perhaps he hoped to be able to reject the dark side again as he did on Malachor V. Revan ruins that by forcing him to realize the truth, however.

It would, but I don't consider those children suitable for combat - that's why the masters left them behind on Coruscant when the went to Katarr in the first place. Still since years have passed since then, some of those children might be reaching an age, where they might be ready for becoming padawan learners. Some of them might be, yes. I see that as a bit similar to how children sometimes know more about computer and so than the teachers trying to tell them about it. It is a bit different for jedi, though, since it's all about controlling your emotions and instincts, and adults are (we hope...) always better at that having more experience with it. I'd say adolescence is about the most dangerous time of life for a jedi. Not sure about Revan's padawan... I don't recall him ever being a master before the Mandalorian Wars, so I'll shut up about it.

It's probably because while the fate of KotOR3 is still uncertain, Obsidian was behind KotOR2 and is therefore considered the "active" developer of the KotOR-series for now. After all, since KotOR3 hasn't even been announced yet, that means all speculation about it and the current standing of KotOR would come from KotOR2 and so might be seen as feedback on that game, and that is something Obsidian wants to read. We're playing KotOR2 now, so we're still Obsidian's customers and will continue to be until/unless another developer is announced for KotOR3.

Odd, then, that Bastila goes into lengthy descriptions on how she joined the order to be trained when very young and explains how jedi are separated from their parents at the earliest age to avoid the close attachments between relatives, since those are powerful and can lead to the dark side... Indeed, this whole point comes across from her descriptions much, much better in KotOR1 than in any of the movies... Well, they went from totally inexperienced to jedis of level 20+ for me during the course of a game that spanned only, what, a couple of months or so at most? Besides, they learned themselves, so surely they can teach what they've learned themselves. Also, Visas is a true jedi trained by the original masters, Atton has studied jedi techniques and weaknesses for a long time, Bao-Dur has fought next to jedi for years (heck, he knows lightsaber-construction better than the Exile did...), the Disciple was padawan until he the order. Only Handmaiden and Mira can be said to be true apprentices. No, but it doesn't matter since they wouldn't have the resources or expertice to train new jedi for a long time - just teaching the students they already have will be more than a challenge. I think a year between KotOR2 and 3 is too short, though I'd agree that five years (like between 1 and 2) is too much. I'd say two or three years. And a lot can happen in just one year... Not sure about the Revan's padawan idea, because I'm not sure he had the experience to be a master by the time he left for the Mandalorian Wars. Remember that Revan was a relatively young jedi leading other young jedi into that war. Even if he had had a padawan at the time, sure that padawan would have gone with and then been turned to the dark side eventually (the Exile was the only one to resist and go back, if you'll remember). Besides, if Revan had any padawan, I think it should be Malak.

About the order, yes and no. The way I see it, there were two aspects that needed to be addressed concerning the jedi. One was that while most of the remaining jedi knights and masters died on Katarr, that still doesn't tell us us what happened to all the jedi children, who certainly wouldn't have been taken to a secret meeting about how to fight the Sith (Nihilus and Sion). The second was that the Exile's companions-turned-jedi needed to have a place in the story, particularly after Kreia's predictions about them being the "lost jedi" (at least in the light side ending of the story). So I thought it would make sense to put those two together. The LS Exile left his companions behind, but many of them (potentially, I know, but we need to give that potentiality some consequence) are jedi now and cannot just go back to their old lives. Meeting (and training under) the Exile has changed them, and when he leaves, they must find a new place for themselves as jedi. So I thought I'd have them go to Coruscant and begin to rebuild the order in positions as teachers and one day perhaps masters. So what may have sounded like a jedi order and a council is really nothing more than a sizable group of jedi children being trained by about a dozen or so would-be teachers who serve as "masters" though they would not even be considered jedi knights by the usual standards. In fact, that could be a plot for a KotOR 4 or 5 or whatever, when the younger jedi grow up and begin rejecting the "masters" because they never learned the "real" skills from the "real" masters and just assumed the positions when they were vacant and now won't give them up when "proper" and "truly dedicated" jedi have grown from the younger generation. After all, the Exile's companions have pretty troubling pasts (Disciple left the order, Visas betrayed her people to turn dark side and serve Nihilus, Atton tortured and killed jedi, Bao-Dur was vengeful and created weapons of mass destruction during the Mandalorian Wars, Handmaiden betrayed her vows to Atris, etc.), so they might be considered impure and unworthy by the next generation of jedi.

Agreed. KotOR2 was a conflict among the "pretender" Sith (falled Jedi). To some extent you could say that KotOR3 will be a war between the survivors of these these "pretender" Sith and the true Sith over who gets to claim the failing Republic as a prize. Hence my plot about DS Revan and DS Exile described above.

Yes, but I think you're confusing official Star Wars Expanded Universe canon with internal KotOR plot progression. I know that Revan was supposed to end up light sided by official canon, but I do believe that decision was made a long time ago, and yet you can still set him to both dark side and female in KotOR2. Why? Because fitting the KotOR2 plot with whatever people played in KotOR1 is far more important than fitting it with the Expanded Universe. Besides, the EU is not contradicted by that, only supplemented. Also, whether Revan fell to the dark side by choice or not the first time around, why would he not do so again? After all, he didn't manage to defeat the true enemy the first time, which would mean that he will fail to save the Republic from the true Sith unless he sacrifices himself again. After all, the whole point of KotOR2 was to set up the evolving plot so that both Revan and the Exile would have the true Sith as an enemy no matter which side of the force they ended up on. Now, I do commend Obsidian on engineering the whole plot and making it work toward that end, and I did enjoy and respect the storytelling, but that does not mean that I don't see how they manipulated the plot to fit with a game that would be the same for both light and dark side characters.

LucasArts has stated that the Light side male story is canonical. Ebon Hawk: Oh, right, sorry. I haven't played the game through as Light side, where this Ebon Hawk end movie appears. Playing as Dark side, you see a video where the Ebon Hawk is crushed by boulders before falling into the abyss. Since the Light side is canonical, the Ebon Hawk does survive. Revan: If he became the Dark Lord out of necessity it means that he never fell to the Dark side, his plan was always to save the galaxy. Thus no fall took place, he just became a character that would be needed to save it. If his intentions were good all along, he never was Dark side. He could do the same again, but since he has clear, good motives, a "fall" would just mean assuming a new role where he betrays the Sith, as was his plan all along. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, this is precisely what Kreia suggests. It does seem like rather a convenient excuse to me, like she is being an apologist for Revan just so she can get rid of the mark of having all her apprentices fall to the dark side. I could accept that Revan planned the whole thing, but to say that he never fell at all seems going to far. He did become the dark lord. Okay, so far so good, but then using the powers of the Starforge to attack the Republic does not fit with his overall goal. After all, if the Starforge is so powerful, then why didn't he just use it to fight the true Sith? I think that Revan did sacrifice himself, but even he was unable to resist the lure of the dark side - at the end of the day, he too was corrupted by the lust for power and forgot all about fighting the true Sith. More likely, evil Revan intended to destroy the Republic and then use its resources to conquer the true Sith. If that's the intention, then I'd really like it, because it would be incredibly ironic that Malak actually ends up saving the Republic through his treachery - Revan had lost his way at that point and would never have resumed his crusade against the true Sith. And since that crusade led to the events of KotOR2, neither would the Exile. I can see it now - Darth Malak, unwitting savior of the Republic. Our hero! :D Thinking that Revan was too powerful to fall to the dark side is the classic failing of the jedi, though. Indeed, those jedi who are powerful are those most vulnerable to corruption, since power flows so naturally to them. After all, resisting the temptations of the dark side is the eternal struggle of the jedi, and thinking oneself to be above that is to invite disaster. Revan, Bastila, and especially Anakin all learned that the hard way - "Power corrupts - absolute power corrupts absolutely!" If anything, Revan's power made him more likely to fall the dark side, not less.

What I like about Kreia's statement is that it to interpretation. Was Revan so powerful and farsighted that he sacrificed himself to the dark side for a greater cause, or was he seduced while trying to play that part? Well, it depends entirely on your own perspective, which is what good storytelling is about. I like the nuances, the shades of gray...

Then why did I see the Exile and co. fly off in it at the end of KotOR2 ? But then it hardly matters, since it won't affect my plot - the Ebon Hawk can easily be replaced by another ship... First of all, whatever Revan might have been by canon I'd consider of secondary priority when it comes to the actual games. Sure, Revan and the Exile may be light side according to the Expanded Universe, but what they are in the actual game is entirely up to the individual player. Also, you're overlooking something. Revan was always a great jedi, but he did fall to the dark side before. Why? Well, I'll quote Kreia, since she puts it best: "And there is something that the Council may never understand. That perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew.The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war. Perhaps he became the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil." This could certainly happen again. Why else did Revan choose to go to the unknown regions alone? Facing the dark side alone is not the way of the jedi. Revan chose to go alone because he/she did not want to subject his/her friends to the same danger and sacrifice. The Exile ended up making the same choice for the same reason...

Well, since I've already pretty much managed to spoil my preferred plot and because I've been asked to tell more, here my continued KotOR3 plot suggestion: Part 3 Knowing that the apparently dead Darth Nihilus is leading the Sith invasion force, the crew of the Ebon Hawk contact the republic and the scattered jedi. They decide to coordinate a combined preemptive strike on the enemy fleet before Darth Nihilus can use his powers on a republic world. This leads to a major space battle, where Carth and Mandalore lead their forces against the Sith, while the Ebon Hawk makes its way to the enemy flag ship along with several jedi starfighters carrying the major jedi companions of KotOR2 (Atton, Bao-Dur, Disciple, Handmaiden, Mira and Visas). While a major space battle is taking place, the jedi fight their way through Sith assassins to the command bridge and confront Darth Nihilus, who is facing away from them watching the space battle. He looks just as he did in KotOR2, only this time there is no vulnerable stop to use against him. The jedi don't waste time, though, and immediately rush him. Just going hear him causes pain to the jedi, however, and the main character immediately falls to the ground screaming in pain (worse than on Coruscant), but doesn't lose consciousness this time. Nihilus incapacitates the jedi easily by draining their force, except for Visas (who has faced him before) and Atton (who has greater resistances than most). Even so they are both greatly weakened, but keep fighting while their companions stare helplessly at them. It doesn't look good until, in the heat of the battle, Visas manages to tear Nihilus' mask from his face. All present are shocked by the sight of Nihilus' face - it's the Exile! Though initially shocked, the jedi immediately begin appealing to the friendship they once had with the Exile. For a moment the Exile seems about to strike, but then hesitates and just stands there for an ominously long time. Eventually the Exile simply falls over, and the old companions capture their former ally and bring him/her back to the Ebon Hawk. They leave the Sith flagship as it is destroyed along with the rest of the invasion fleet. The main character reawakens to find the Exile's old companions wondering what to do about their old friend. They are concerned that he may have fallen to the dark side, but Bastila convinces them that even the Exile may be redeemed. Besides, the Exile is now the only link to finding Revan. While holding the Exile captive in a stasis field, they question their old friend and ask him/her what happened after the Exile left to find Revan. As they slowly keep reminding the Exile of his/her past, he/she eventually begins to remember. The Exile resists, but somehow the main character is able to tell when the Exile is resisting or remembering the most, which eventually leads the group to uncover the truth of what has been happening and make the Exile see it as well. The Exile did go to the unknown regions to find Revan. He/she faced many Sith along the way and had to hide many times. Eventually he/she did meet Revan, only Revan had reverted back to the dark side. They fought and Revan defeated the Exile, since he/she could not bring himself/herself to harm Revan. Instead Revan turned the Exile to the dark side through the use of various force powers and Sith poisons (similar to what Aleema once did to Ulic Qel-Droma in the Dark Lords of the Sith comic, I imagine). Revan also turned the Exile to the dark side by making him/her see the horrors of what he/she had done on Malachor V and what it had done to their fellow jedi, and how the first Darth Nihilus was born when the Exile denied a dark part of himself/herself. What Revan did made the Exile reunite with his/her "abandoned" Nihilus part, but also turned him/her to the dark side to become the new Darth Nihilus, apprentice of Darth Revan. Revan had not joined the true Sith, however, but rather was planning to strike at them from within - he/she would gain what followers he/she could and then challenge the true Sith leaders for the rulership of the Sith empire and the title of Dark Lord. A civil war began to take shape among the Sith. Revan then sent Nihilus (the Exile) to destroy the worlds of the enemy Sith, and that is the destruction that the jedi felt on Coruscant. But Revan also ordered Nihilus to keep their small fleet of ships close to republic space, where they could entangle the republic in the war when the time came. It would be essential to silence any resistance to such a war, which is why Sith assassins were sent to remove the notoriously pacifistic and diplomatic leaders of Alderaan. If Revan was light side in KotOR1, Bastila will muse whether they have been lucky to capture the Exile now and so gained a chance to find Revan, or whether Revan purposefully planned all this before sacrificing himself/herself to the dark side once more (thereby mirroring the comments of sacrifice on Revan's part that Kreia mentioned to the Exile in KotOR2). It is eventually decided that they must do something to find Revan and help him/her in the struggle against the true Sith and even bring him/her back to the light side, if possible. The Exile is the only one with knowledge of Revan's location and so must go. Nobody trusts the Exile much after seeing him/her as the new Darth Nihilus, but they do agree that they have little choice - the Exile now represents the only chance they have of striking against the true Sith, and they must take that risk. Bastila will also go, since she has a special connection to Revan that she might use to their advantage. HK-47 and T3-M4 will also go since they know Revan and cannot be tempted by the dark side. As a non-force-user Tawyn will also go, and the main character will also go, since he/she seems to have a particular ability of empathy that allows him/her to sense the motives and emotions of others very strongly through the force. This ability was instrumental in turning the Exile back to the light side and might do the same for Revan, it is hoped. The main character is judged to have done very well under the recent ordeals, however, and is granted full status as a jedi knight. Though this is unusual, the jedi agree that he/she has done remarkably well and advanced far in a short time, so there is no reason to let him/her continue as a padawan. The other jedi return to their various duties in the republic, several to Coruscant to prepare for another possible invasion from the true Sith. The Ebon Hawk leaves for true Sith empire to search for Revan as per the Exile's suggestions. Now, this is all only if the Exile was light side, of course. If he/she was dark side, then his/her companions will all likely be the same and so not appear to confront him. Those jedi that do come will still realize who they are facing, though, which puts a light/dark side option before the main character - he/she can either help Nihilus defeat the jedi or else help the jedi capture him/her. The light side option would lead to the main character eventually choosing to "escape" with the Exile and Bastila (if she is also evil) pretending to want to learn from their great power. In doing so, of course, the main character will defy the jedi, or maybe the "escape" is planned in order to let Nihilus lead the main character to Revan. This would be a very dangerous mission, where the main character will certainly be tempted by the dark side... In any event, Bastila would go along with this deception, since she (whether good or evil) is also trying to find Revan.

Thanks. Tawyn is a mysterious character who looks completely nefarious. He actually isn't (not really), but his purpose is to always have people wondering how much he knows, and what he is really up to in the end... It's an archetype I frequently end up playing myself in RPGs... Since you only get to describe your previous game according to gender and alignment, some suppositions must be made. I made this in my plot, because I tend more toward the super-benevolent jedi, and it's actually less of a stretch than KotOR2 assuming that LS Revan turned the ghost of Ajunta Pall back to the LS in KotOR1 (which was rather a difficult persuasion check to make). Well, maybe it's just me who likes the idea of setting up the good wookie (Zaalbar) against the evil wookie (Hanharr)... I set her up as the new master, since I thought it was too soon in the plot to leave the main character without a master. I'd say the main character should stop having a master and perhaps even take a padawan himself/herself after the confrontation with Darth Nihilus, which is still only about half way through my plot. Thanks, but don't give away my whole plot - I'm still far from describing it all...

I quite certain that the problem is very much alive and kicking. No updates in no way implies that it's dead, and to be honest I'd much rather have the guys woriking on the much than telling us about it. After all, both take time from people who do the work solely on voluntary basis. When something new comes up, I'm sure they'll let us know... If we don't notice by ourselves first - I'm sure many of us pass by the site now and then just to check

Well, several people were very kind to my description of what I'd like to see for an opening in KotOR3. Thank you all. Obviously I had other thoughts about what I'd like, so I've written down some of it. What follows is what I'd like for the second part of KotOR3, which still takes place in the known galaxy. I'm hoping this can serve as a basis for what we'd like to see happen in the game plotwise, so feel free to comment or give constructive critiscism - just because I like something doesn't mean that everyone else will, too, or even that it's good Part 2 Most of the Jedi leave and go their separate ways, both to hide and to seek out information about this new threat. One of the jedi, the Disciple or the Handmaiden, I'd say, stays behind to guard the youngest children, though. This is considered acceptable, since a single jedi with a few very young children aren't believed to present much of a target for the true Sith. The rest all scatter to various planets. Since the main character and his/her master are relatively inexperienced, they are charged with taking the Ebon Hawk and the droids (HK-47 and T3-M4) to safety as well as guarding several of the young jedi students/children. They take the children to Alderaan, which is one of the most peaceful worlds, and where the children are believed to be safe. Of course, this just sets off a series of events that will bring them to the center of the plot. Alderaan is already being infiltrated by Sith assassins (similar to those we saw in KotOR2). They aren't planning an all-out war, just to kill a few leaders and then manipulate the peaceful people of Alderaan to be more 'accepting' toward the Sith. Naturally the main character and his/her master will soon begin to look into what is going on, which will force a confrontation with the Sith assassins, as they try to take out the meddling jedi. Unfortunately, this will also lead to the Sith discovering the significance of the Ebon Hawk and perhaps T3's knowledge of Revan and the Exile. The jedi will get some help, however, from a mysterious and rather shady character (a scoundrel) named Tawyn. He will give them a warning about what is going on and help them when he can. Tawyn obviously knows a lot of things and should be pretty good with a blaster too. He is secretly a member of the Genoharadan seeking to preserve the republic by any means necessary. He is here because he learned of the Sith plan on Sleheyron, and so came here to stop it. Since the republic is in trouble these days, he has no problem openly helping the jedi. Tawyn won't admit to any of this, of course, and will be a source of background information and innuendo throughout the game. He isn't a master at any skill, but he knows a little about almost everything. This leads to a battle where the main character's master is killed, but instead the main character chances across Bastila. Bastila can be both dark side and light side. If both she and the main character are light side, then she will obviously join the battle against the Sith, either because she has followed them here searching for clues to Revan's fate or because she was captured by the Sith while searching for Revan, and they've been trying to turn her to the dark side. Perhaps even both... Either way, Bastila becomes the main character's new master and they join forces to search for Revan. If Bastila is dark side, but the main character is playing light side, then the player must feign interest in learning from her and embrace the Sith teachings, since that is the only hope of finding Revan and what he/she learned of the true Sith. I could see a scene where the main character's dying master charges him or her with that dangerous mission with her dying breath... In any event, evil Bastila is still searching for Revan, so even if dark sided, she is still there to find clues to Revan's whereabouts. It's also possible that she has feigned an alliance with the Sith assassins in order to spy on them, only to then turn on them when they face severe opposition from the jedi. The main character must now use Bastila to find Revan, and Bastila is content to allow this, as she is certain she can handle a young jedi and turn him or her to the dark side for her own purposes. That would be the a waltz between light and dark similar to light Exile's relationship with Kreia in KotOR2. Note: Bastila needs to be fairly powerful from the moment you meet her - I'd say no less than 12th level or so, which should be more than the main character at this point. [in fact, I'd add a routine meaning that Bastila (and the main character's master before her) will always be at least one level of experience above the main character. I'd also do something similar for the Exile (two levels or more above) and Revan (three levels or more above)]. Bastila and the main character now travel across several worlds in their search for Revan and the Exile. If Revan was set to light side, then We should see some of the old crew along the way. I'd like to see Jolee, Zaalbar, and Mission again, and even have them be part of the crew for a while. We could have Mission and Zaalbar join the main character upon the death of the master until the main character meets Bastila, then leave them on whatever world we met them on to stay and rebuild. Anyway, an investigation eventually reveals that the invaders infiltrated Alderaan by smugglers operating from the world of Myrkr, though their ships originated from Hutt-controlled Sleheyron. The latter point may also be revealed by Tawyn, since that was how he was clued into what was going on. There is evidence to suggest that they came from some other place outside the known galaxy, perhaps from Sith space, but only access to the starmaps of those original Sith ships would reveal that. The Intiate and group can now visit either of these worlds to find more clues after leaving the jedi children behind for protection on Alderaan. On Myrkr the group will quickly be forced into the wilderness by Czerka and various "business associates" (smugglers) seeking to protect their hidden base and the Ebon Hawk will be captured. This will force the group into the forest wilderness. Of course, only then will the jedi realize that their force powers are completely neutralized here, since the Ysalamiri can suppress the force by 'pushing' it back. This'll give the non-jedi in the group a place to shine while the force-powers of the jedi are completely useless. In the forests, however, the group will also chance across groups of angry wookies. They are escaped slaves of Czerka trying to make a new life for themselves, though their motives are uncertain and, as will soon become apparent, still undetermined. Even more mysterious are the tree-like Neti, who just want all the strangers to go away. It seems they are also in a war with the wookies, but it will soon become apparent that the wookies are fighting even among themselves. If Revan was light side, then the group will meet Mission and Zaalbar here. They are replaced by similar characters, if Revan was dark side in KotOR1. They are trying to get the wookies to cooperate with the Neti against Czerka. Since the wookies respect mostly strength, they intend to do so by letting Zaalbar claim the position of chieftain in the rogue "tribe". However, a powerful challenging wookie has also demanded the position claiming that the wookies should fight down all opposition, be they Neti or humans, and then punish their former Czerka masters before claiming the planet for their own. This aggressive wookie is named Hanharr. This leads to an obvious light/dark-side choice for the main character which determines how things will play out on Myrkr for now. Hanharr will be backed by Czerka agents pretending to be disgruntled former employees and bounty hunters respecting Hanharr, while Mission and Zaalbar will be backed by the native Neti. In the end it comes down to a straight fight to the death between Zaalbar and Hanharr. A victory for Hanharr will see the wookies fight the Neti while Hanharr 'loses' some of his people to Czerka by secretly letting them be recaptured (similar to KotOR1). Still, Czerka will give the group back the Ebon Hawk as well as the information they came looking for. The information is corrupted, however, and only partially useful, so the group will also have to go to Sleheyron to find out more. This will hurt both the wookies and the Neti, but Hanharr won't care, because Czerka will reward him for it. Victory for Zaalbar, however, will lead to an alliance between the wookies and the Neti against Czerka. They will overrun the Czerka capital, allowing the group to both reclaim the Ebon Hawk and find the information they came looking for. But, as above, the data is corrupted and only partially useful. Still, Zaalbar and Zaalbar will make some of the pleading Czerka survivors use their ships to bring the wookies back to Kashyyyk. Mission and Zaalbar then leave the group again. On Sleheyron the group will quickly run into trouble with the Hutts. Sleheyron will be similar to Nar Shaddaa (in KotOR2), except that it'll be a long, continuous struggle between various Hutts. I read a topic on the KotOR1 boards: swforums.bioware.com The topic is about how Sleheyron was actually dropped from KotOR1. We've heard about it in both games, so I think we should see it at last, and I want to see what Bioware's David Gaider described, so I'm just going to follow that idea (though maybe the arena isn't such a good idea...). Sleheyron is even worse than Nar Shaddaa, which at least had some humanity left in it. Sleheyron, however, is a grim and dark place, where the Hutts rule on their whims and will happily sacrifice anyone they can use as pawns in their power-games. To say that the Exchange operates openly here would be competely redundant... You cant throw a stone here without hitting slave-markets, bounty hunters with their captured prey, "legitimate businessmen" haggling over prices for narcotics, etc. Basically you'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villany... (Okay, that was a cheap shot. There, I admit it...) Still even such a horrible place will have its own sort of 'underground' movement. In this case it's a group trying to free slaves and other innocents and smuggle them away from this place. The group will soon enough meet up with this group, especially if the main character is light side. Basically you can play the various Huttese factions against each other, working for one or the other, or you can do the decent thing and help the underground. If Revan was set to light side, then the underground will have a surprising leader: A 'neutral' jedi named Jolee Bindo. Old Jolee is once again doing what he always does - working in the shadows and secretly helping the poor and oppressed. If Revan is dark side, however, then Jolee is dead, in which case he should be replaced by a daring scoundrel (who will be Jolee's second-in-command if Jolee is alive). The main challenge on Sleheyron is to find information about the Sith ships and where they came from. The ships have since departed again, but naturally the treacherous Hutts took steps to slice their computers for valuable knowledge. The Hutts would be willing to sell this information in exchange for certain services such as, but not limited to, assassinations of rivals, exposure of "illegal" transactions by the competition, extortion, etc. (Note that even the Hutts have rules to follow.) The Hutts are as deceptive as ever, though, and are content to share the information about the Sith only because they know their data is encrypted and partially corrupted. They're wrong, though, since they don't know that the group has found or will find corrupted but unencrypted data on Myrkr, which can be combined to reveal the whereabouts of a Sith invasion fleet currently hiding on the edge of republic space. Of course, light siders could also join up with Jolee and infiltrate the Hutts in order to slice their computers. Jolee has no skill for that, but he knows Sleheyron well by now, and someone in the group will have much better computer skill (if no one else, then Tawyn will). Jolee wants to slice the Hutt computers to 'rearrange' some slave transports so that they fall into the hands of the republic or to otherwise free slaves. Not sure whether Jolee should stay and help on Sleheyron or go with the group to seek out and help Revan. Either option seems relevant, but it's Jolee's choice to make (and so the programmers') and not the main character's. In any event, the group will end up with the data that will allow them to find the initial Sith invasion fleet. They also learn that this fleet is being commanded by a nefarious Sith lord called... Darth Nihilus?

This is one of those ideas that are really good, but will almost certainly never make it into a game. Computer games are an industry, and as much as we might love or hate it as gamers/consumers, the company has to look at cost/benefit. The days when games could be loaded with all sorts of cool and extensive easter eggs or what not (like in Fallout 2) are over, because writing a computer game is now a major business enterprise rather than the love child of dedicated programmers. That's not to say the companies are full of money-loving suits now, but where a game could be written by three or four people for about as many months just four or five years ago, today it's a major investment requiring teams of 20+ programmers working for more than a year (with KotOR2 we have a bad example of what happens, if they cut down on that time...) Add to that voice-talent and marketing, and it all adds up. One consequence of that is that it is no longer feasible to write/program vast areas of computer games that only a handful of dedicated fans will ever play. Since every part of a game takes such major dedication from the whole team, there simply isn't room for throwing in a few extras just for the fans - we've passed the point where that could be done easily. Now, I'd certainly like something like you suggest, just as I'd like the ideas some people have voiced about the dark/light sides of the game being completely different. That's not going to happen either, though, since most of us will play only dark or light, and so it's a waste for the developers to write it, since they would essentially be writing two games and only get the income from one. That is not feasible either. Of course, this may change again in time, if programming because easier/less costly for some reason, but I don't see it happening in the next few years. So, I don't think that will happen, sadly. In fact, I'm quite certain it won't.

I personally think that the best way to use the Exile is to make him the one who is trying to rebuild the Council (a scripted character, not a PC or party member). In other words, he is the closest thing to a Master Vandar or Master Vrook that you see in KOTOR III. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, I still don't agree with that. KotOR2 left the Exile to follow Revan and seek out the true Sith in the unknown regions. Whatever happens in KotOR3, that's where the plot must begin, as far as the Exile is concerned. He/she could certainly end up being a prominent member of the new council at the end of the game, maybe even the head of the council. Unless, of course, they want to kill him/her for plot purposes... Same goes for Revan btw.

I depends on what "council" means exactly. If it means body of old and experienced jedi masters long since appointed to the council and governing jedi affairs, then I'd agree with you that it's dead. However, as long as there are jedi there will also be a council or the makings of one in some form. Since the jedi aren't completely destroyed just yet, though close to it, then there can be said to be a "council" trying to build a new jedi order.

Maybe not, but then it doesn't matter much. There really isn't much of a "council" to begin with, so whoever heads it doesn't make much difference. Thanks. I did read your post long before making my plot suggestions here, and I don't think our preferences for KotOR3 will conflict. I'm sure some people will argue that Revan and the Exile are more important, but I actually do plan to have them be deciding characters in my plot. Yes, we want to see what happened to them, but I don't think we need to develop them as characters - we've already done that over two games now. We don't need lengthy character development for them, we need closure, and that doesn't need to take much space in the game if done right plotwise. I see the new main character more as someone who facilitates events and bring characters together. The Exile and especially Revan will certainly be vital characters, and rightly so.