Jediphile

He told Yoda and Mace that the army had been ordered ten years ago (in Episode II, which puts it around the same time as Episode I), but that he (Obi-Wan, that is) thought he had been killed before that. Yes it is, but in the case I wonder why Sifo Dyas would order the creation of a clone army in the first place? Besides, Mace tells Obi-Wan that whoever ordered the creation of the army did so without the consent of the Jedi Council (and certainly without their knowledge), so I doubt it was a genuine jedi who did it... If Sifo-Dyas did it, then it makes more sense if he was Sith posing as a Jedi.

Palpy got a girl? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> he had to if he had a son!, and like it said he was also gettin' jiggy with the Imperial Head of Intelligence, if you catch my drift, lucky son of a................. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He really dosnt look that spry does he <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, but to quote Henry Kissinger: "Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac."

Not exactly. The original movie (to be specific: Episode IV - "A New Hope") was intended to stand alone and not have any sequels. ESB and ROTJ only became relevant when the success was obvious. Lucas actually used as much as his oomph as he could in the first movie, though he left loose ends to exploit in case he wanted to continue - Darth Vader's survival and escape, for example. Obviously he left much material unused - you can do only so much in a two hour flick. But either way, that's why we get yet another Death Star in ROTJ, since the Death Star was always intended for the big finale, only he had already used it.

I tend to agree. Still, the idea of a KotOR prequel based on the Mandalorian Wars just might work. That said, I'm usually wary of prequels, since they frequently screw up continuity. Lucas managed to avoid that through prequel trilogy, but I'm much more doutbful about whoever would write such a game - KotOR2 already adds enough "differences" in history compared to KotOR1 to raise more than a few eyebrows...

True, but not unmanageable. Time has passed between KotOR1 and KotOR3, and pretty much anything could have happened to Revan in the Sith-infested unknown regions during those years. Personally I see him having turned dark sided again. The same could be true for the Exile. I want him to have followed Revan, only to have Revan then turn him to the dark side as well and become the new Darth Nihilus. That serves all the possibilities of gender and alignment in the previous games.

Don't expect me to lose any sleep over it While your maturity is demonstrated by enforcing a "my way or the high way" approach towards anyone else - if they don't capitulate and submit to your opinion 1000%, then they are the enemy who must naturally embrace the opposite of whatever you think and can therefore be attacked with impunity. The fact that you have repeated this approach toward ShadowPaladin when he dared to disagree with you speaks volumes Yes, life is so hard and unfair on you... [sound in the background of the world's smallest violin playing just for metadigital...]

Well, I actually want to see all our NPCs during the game, though they shouldn't all be NPCs. I'd like to have some of them be "temporary" NPCs in that they join the party when you're in a particular planet, but won't follow you further - once you reach the loading ramp to the Ebon Hawk (or whichever means of transportation...) the NPC just goes, "Sorry, but I guess it's time for me to get back to my work here - have a nice flight". That way you can have lots of NPCs during the game without cluttering up the group. I also want to see Carth and Canderous in the game, but probably not as NPCs at any point - there's just no need to, and cameo appearances can serve just fine. Bastila should definitely be a permanent NPC, though - she is instrumental to finding Revan. Heck, I'd even want to see Jolee as well as Mission and Zaalbar again. And all of the Exile's companions should make cameo appearances as well (if LS).

Never screamed at you or anyone else, though I did call for a ruling by the moderator. Besides, you seem to be in the minority, as both ShadowPaladin and I seem to be equally "defeatist" while nobody has voiced support for your side. Doesn't make you wrong, of course, but it might prompt you to at least reconsider your position unless you're completely biased and unwilling to reexamine your postulate. I try never to enter a discussion without first accepting that I might be wrong, though others will have to convince me. You don't seem to allow for that possibility. You'll excuse, but I don't like having words put in my mouth and being quoted for things I didn't say. Judging from your comments to ShadowPaladin, you don't seem to either (not that I think he did, but still...), so you can scarcely fault me for it unless you're a hypocrit. Besides, you turned the discussion into being about me instead of being about the topic when you accused me of being an apologist and other things. That's not arguing the point. Which should tell you something...

Yeah. I guess I should just take it as a badge of honor - if people like that find it in their hearts to flame me, then I must be doing something right...

Somehow I wish you or someone else had jumped in to say this earlier. Can't blame anyone for not getting involved, but it might have spared me from trolling by metadigital and flaming by XboxSithLord...

Hmm, but then how was he/she able to get from Coruscant to Tatooine unnoticed, so that Anakin could see her death, and then return in time to be elected special powers by the senate... Oh, I get it - the Shmi that died was just a clone...

Hmm, that does leave us with a continuity problem, however. After the days of Darth Bane, there can only be two Sith - the master and the apprentice. But if Palpatine ordered Dooku to kill Sifo Dyas, then it doesn't add up, since that took place before the events of Episode I (according to Obi-Wan's statements in Episode II), at which time Sidious naturally still had Maul as his apprentice. This way we end with at least one Sith too many, and it also begs the question of who then deleted Kamino from the jedi archives, since Sifo-Dyas wouldn't have, and Dooku couldn't having already left the jedi order (or he would not be working for Palpatine yet)...

Yeah, that was so lame... As if the midi-chlorians bit and young Anakin in Episode I wasn't bad enough - "Let's try spinning - that's a neat trick!" :angry:

True, but then Palpatine did make sure to stay a step ahead of his apprentice. Dooku was kept around only for as long as it took Palpatine to find a new apprentice - once Dooku grew too powerful, bye to his head... As for Anakin, Palpatine made sure to demoralize him completely by telling him that he killed Padm

That's the danger, yes, but it might still happen that someone writes a game/program that caters to everyone's roleplaying desires. Otherwise we'll have to wait for the time when we get neural networks as standard in our computers... Well, I'm certainly not about to speak out against that, having myself suggested The Exile's return as Darth Nihilus in my own suggestions :D I'm much more skeptical about the mind wipe - it looks far too much like Revan's fate in KotOR1, and will give us yet another amnesic jedi. Most people seem to be sick of that theme, and I can't say I blame them - we've seen it twice in as many games... I'd much rather play a new, young jedi padawan on his/her way to glory and whose innocence and idealism must eventually save the day. I posted lengthy descriptions on my plot suggestions in earlier parts of the this topic (yes, I'm very verbose - there, I admit it...), though I never quite finished it. Definitely Coruscant - I want the game to begin and end there. Alderaan, yes. I also wanted Myrkr to give the non-jedi an advantage and for an ending I had in mind. Not sure about the rest, though. Don't see much point in Mon Calamari (yet another water planet? We already had Manaan...). And I really don't want Yavin IV, since I think it'll interfere with Exar Kun's fate. If it's for the purpose of following in Naga Sadow's footsteps, I'd much rather see his hidden base on Khar Shian. I assume the Unknown World is the Rakatan homeworld from KotOR1, in which I'd vote against it - we've seen it and are done with the Rakatans. I don't want Zonama Sekot either, though for the opposite reasons - the Yuuzhan Vong belongs to the future of EU - please let it rest there. I'd much rather see Ziost or other Sith worlds. Oh, and I'd like to finally see Sleheyron, too.

Amen! I can confirm this myself having been the GM of a PnP game for fifteen years and counting, my current campaign now entering its eleventh year IIRC. And PnP is much easier to handle, because I don't actually have to prepare for all the eventualities in advance. Naturally I try to anticipate the choices the players will make (and usually guess correctly - I know the players, after all), but even if they do something I didn't expect, I can make calls on the fly and let the plot unfold unhindered with the changes necessary. A CRPG doesn't have that option, however, and therefore all possible choices must be taken into account by the programmers in advance, no matter how minute they are. Plus, of course, the programmers don't know the player. Basically this is the main reason why most games are completely linear with no diviation, and why we no longer see games like Elite or Frontier or even something like Ultima VI or VII, where you could do pretty much anything you could think of - open-ended games are a programmer's nightmare, because the sheer number of possible outcomes they have to cater to are astronomical. Doing a completely linear story is far more manageable, and so allows much more attention to things like plot development and character complexity. Of course, with the internet that might all chance with online games, but those are - for now - still fairly poor in characterization and strictly controlled by the companies. Some are run by the gamers, but often fall into the trap of everyone wanting to play the toughest character around. Still, if some company released an online RPG where the players can take control of story and characterization, then we might actually see brilliant CRPGs that allow for such things, since there will then be GMs online to deal with unexpected choices instead of having the programmers have to think of them beforehand. I don't think any company will release such a game, however, since it would be strategically unsound from a marketing point of view - they'd be giving the players full control and so making themselves obsolete, which means no further sales. But it might happen if a company doesn't see that. A bit like the internet itself, which has become a monster beyond all control of its makers.

Sorry :">

LOL I can see Shmi now: "Anakin, there's something I didn't tell you..." :D And so we have the Star Wars version of "Devil's Advocate"...

Now that we've seen the prequel trilogy, I'm left with the question of where Palpatine actually came from. We know he has ties to Naboo, since he is the senator of the planet, when we first see him, but other than that, we have no background for him at all, and he seems to be completely unknown to the jedi. Does this strike anyone else as odd? I mean, most Sith are falled jedi, so chances are that the jedi would have trained him at some point, particularly at this time, when the Sith are said to have been extinct for a millennium (that's exactly how Kai-Adi Mundi puts it in Episode I). Mace Windu notes that the Sith could not have returned with the jedi knowing about it, so it seems clear that the jedi have remained wary of the Sith, even if we might think they've grown negligent in their vigil. Now, training a Sith lord as powerful as Palpatine isn't exactly something you do quietly, so although the Stih were patient, it is odd that the Jedi have not noticed them, and even more so, if Palpatine could infiltrate the senate without attracting attention. If the jedi trained him, then it seems they should have been much more aware of his plans and powers once he took to politics, yet they plan wars and politics with him without ever raising an eyebrow. To me that suggests that he was simply unknown to the jedi. I doubt he could have done that without extensive powers, but where did he learn those if not from the jedi? The Sith have supposedly been extinct for a thousand years, so where did they suddenly spring from? One possible clue we got in Episode II with the reference to the death and order to build a clone army by jedi master Sifo-Dyas. I thought it would eventually turn out that Sifo-Dyas might be Palpatine himself, but that still begged the question of why the jedi didn't recognize him, as they did Dooku. It's too bad Lucas has not explained this. We get a different clue in Episode III, however, when Palpatine speaks to Anakin about the powerful Darth Plagueis the Wise. Palpatine tells Anakin that Plagueis was killed by his apprentice while he slept, and that the jedi wouldn't tell Anakin this story. The thing about the Sith, however, is that that rarely tell the truth. It's quite possible that Palpatine made up the whole thing simply because he knew Anakin was looking for a way to save Padm

Complete agreement on my part. And it's worth noting that the same was true for Kreia - she was completely linear throughout the game with no choice by the player altering her actions. Obsidian were considering an alternate ending, where Atris would have taken Kreia's place as Darth Traya, but interestingly it was dropped as soon as the deadline was approaching, which only seems to underscore the idea that deep characters are impractical in a CRPG unless their development is fixed and linear and therefore completely predictable to the developers. Something similar can be said for Jolee in KotOR1. You could argue that he was not linear, since he dies in the dark side ending, but the only difference is for Jolee to object wildly to the main character's decision, only to then immediately be killed off by the player and then replaced by another NPC in the group. Jolee had no death scene and his demise had no noticeable influence for the rest of the game - he might just as well have been injured and unavailable in the group, since the only consequence of his death was that you could no longer select him among the NPCs.

LOL :D Yeah, and monkeys might fly out of my... :cool:

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True, but only one to start a war. Or are you saying that you would not react if someone attacked and repeatedly misrepresented and misquoted you?