Jediphile

Using power just because you can is the certain road to the dark side. This is precisely what the masters saw - if you do not control the power, then it controls you! Note that it was mainly the younger and more inexperienced jedi who followed Revan, and they suffered exactly that fate - by letting themselves be controlled by their whims, they fell to the dark side. And Revan saw to that those who didn't got to die on the battlegrounds of Malachor V instead... Revan is a special case, though, since we can't be sure whether Revan fell to the dark side through choice or fate... The jury is still out on that one.

KotOR4 - a bit ahead, aren't you? Seriously, note that I'm only talking about how I'd begin KotOR3. I certainly want Revan and the Exile to be in there, but part of your quest in the game should be to find them, not just stumble across them. To me that means looking for clues to what happened to them in the known galaxy before you go to seek them out in the outer regions. I'd include several characters from the predecessors along the way. Most of the Exile's companions I've already mentioned as Jedi on Coruscant. Carth would also be briefly seen (if alive). About Atris, I'd sort of like her back too, but the problem with her is that she might very well have been killed by the Exile in KotOR2, and even if she is left alive, she swears to turn from the Force, so I don't see how she will fit into the plot, in which case it's better to just drop her completely. Some of Revan's friends would make later appearances as temporary companions. Among those I'd prefer Jolee, Mission and Zaalbar. Bastila would be a major character in the overall story. Using save games from the predecessors sounds very unlikely to me. It's a option, but it was in KotOR2 as well, and they didn't use it there. Besides, can the Xbox import save games from other games? If not, then I think there is no chance of it happening. Either way, I find it unlikely. A bit of a shame, though - I'd like to have my progress have an effect in the next game, but I don't suppose it will...

Well, this topic seems to have died a little. I doubt it's because we've run of out ideas or suggestions for KotOR3. I certainly know that I haven't, so I'll just present a few. First of all, I think the main character should be a completely new character with totally optional gender and species. I'll likely choose human myself again, but I don't see why the game would be hurt by having other choices. Potential races for the character could be Twi'lek, Ithorian, Sullustan, Rodian, Duros, Quarren, or Mon Calamari. There are doubtlessly others not mentioned, and they're probably all fine as long as they're basically bipedal humanoids with a tendency to have general acceptance and ability to speak basic. So there are some I'd avoid, wookie among them. Now, for the plot, I have many ideas. I'll only outline the initial "planet" here, which is to say the "intro" level, just as Taris was in KotOR1 and Peragus in KotOR2. The game should begin on Coruscant. Very early it should be noted how this is now the only jedi training facility left in the galaxy because the few jedi there represent the only known jedi left in the galaxy - there simply aren't enough jedi left to also have a training center on other worlds like Dantooine. It could be that there are legal reasons why Coruscant did not appear in the previous games, though. If that is the case, I'd rather have the emerging council/academy on Alderaan than on Dantooine - we've seen Dantooine enough for now IMHO. The jedi there should include all the jedi we know. Let the player set the Exile's alignment and gender very early. If the Exile is light side, the jedi "masters" on the "council" are Visas, Handmaiden, Disciple, Atton, Mira, and Bao-Dur (if alive at the end of KotOR2 - I'm still in doubt). If the Exile is dark side, then replace them with all new jedi, though the Disciple or the Handmaiden can still be there depending on the Exile's gender. The Exile's companions from KotOR2 should all have different roles in training groups appropriate to their backgrounds. For example, Handmaiden would teach history (as per Kreia's predictions) and maybe hand-to-hand combat, Atton resistance to mental force powers, Bao-Dur would instruct in the construction of lightsabers, etc. The player should be the padawan of a jedi knight just turned master (whom I for some reason prefer to be female, no matter what gender the main character is - maybe I just feel KotOR3 needs strong female characters). Where the main characters of the previous games were amnesic Revan and the unnamed Exile, this time the standard catch for the main character should be the "initiate", "apprentice", "neophyte" or some such. Some people have argued that the race of the main character should be optional. As mentioned above, I actually think that's a good idea, since people can still choose human if they prefer. I'd ignore standard d20 Star Wars rules and let race have no effect on feats/skills/stats, though, so that race really is a genuine choice of preference and not one of statistical opportunism. The main character should have a few training sessions there and let the main character reach level 2. Setting alignment, gender, and appearance for both Revan and the Exile would be good here, perhaps as part of a Jedi history lesson (with Handmaiden as the teacher). If Revan is light side, it is mentioned that after saving the Republic, he/she went to explore an ancient evil in the unknown regions, and that the Exile eventually followed him/her. Bastila founded the new Jedi order, but eventually decided to leave and search for Revan as well, and nobody has heard from her since then. After that the main character and master have some "jedi business" on Coruscant - breaking up fights, settling disputes, catching criminals, etc. This would be along the lines of Anakin and Obi-Wan hunting Zam the assassin in Episode II or Revan solving a murder on Dantooine in KotOR1. Meanwhile the relative peace for the jedi is threatened, however, when Visas Marr - the current head of the Jedi order - is found unconscious in the jedi temple. This would be a cutscene taking place during the main character's exploits, rather like the Visas/Nihilus scene in KotOR2. When the main character and master next return to the jedi academy, the council is called together. The main character's master will attend, and so the main character will be present too (like Obi-Wan going with Qui-Gon in Episode I). Visas begins explaining what happened, but before she can finish, all present suddenly experience a great pain through the force. The main character falls unconscious. The masters are alarmed, as they have just felt the death of thousands of people through the force (like Obi-Wan feeling the destruction of Alderaan in Episode IV). They all instantly realize that they face a new threat. Visas is particularly worried and explains that she fell unconscious because she felt something through the force that she had not felt since the days she served as a slave to the terrible Darth Nihilus, only this time the experience was far more powerful even from afar and despite her much greater powers to resist such influences. In her vision, Visas saw a hooded figure draw all power from an entire world. Not sure which one, but any world that can be sacrificed here is probably appropriate. Somehow I'd like it to be Vjun, since it would explain how it became such a desolate and hostile world, and that Vader later has his castle there because of its ties to the ancient Sith. And note that the world isn't destroyed, it's just completely drained of any and all life to an extent that marks the planets for millennia. This would also explain what Vader means when he says that the power to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force - draining a planet of life while leaving it somewhat inhabitable is indeed more powerful. Still, maybe this world should be a Sith world for reasons that will become obvious. The jedi realize that only the Sith, the true Sith, could unleash such destruction through the force, which means that they will be coming soon... While the main character is still unconscious, they wonder why he/she fainted and charges the main character's master with watching over the apprentice carefully, as the incident could suggest that the apprentice has some special connnection to the force. The main character doesn't know this, of course, only waking up afterwards. Without revealing anything, the Jedi council discusses the matter. If Revan is light side, Carth should make an appearance here as admiral in the Republic fleet and make a few suggestions. Knowing that Darth Nihilus was drawn to great gatherings of Jedi, the council decides that remaining on Coruscant is far too dangerous both for the jedi and for the planet, since it will make the planet a target for the True Sith. Instead they will leave Coruscant and spread themselves across the galaxy both to protect Coruscant and to find a way to fight the true Sith. If a war is coming, then the Republic has little hope of victory in its current state, and the only hope left is the slim chance of what Revan and the Exile went to confront in the unknown regions. Well, that's how I'd *begin* the game up to level 8 to 10 for the main character...

In a word, no. The reference to the Yuuzhan Vong i KotOR1 is just that, a reference. It's foreshadowing their later appearance in the game (or at least I'll give up KotOR completely if it is...). The enemy of KotOR3, the enemy that Revan (and the Exile) went to the unknown regions to find and oppose are the true Sith. True Sith as in the descendants of the Sith empire, not simply fallen jedi like Exar Kun, Ulic Qel-Droma, Revan or Malak, who are "just" pretender Sith - fallen jedi who embraced the dark side for the power. The true Sith are the descendents of people like Marka Ragnos, Ludo Kressh, Naga Sadow and similar. We've heard of the some of them in the other KotOR games, but the remnants of the Sith empire seem to have been all but forgotten since the Hyperspace wars that took place more than 1000 years before Revan's time. Those are the Sith Kreia was talking about, and they really need to be the enemy of KotOR3 in sort of the same way Malak was in KotOR1 - if you're light side you need to fight them to save the Republic, and if you're dark side, you need to fight them to supplant them and claim their power for yourself.

Definitely a classic danger to avoid for story-driven games. Well, yes and no. While I certainly feel the game should begin its plot in the established parts of the Star Wars galaxy, I also feel that the significance of confronting the true Sith must inevitably bring the plot to worlds outside the known universe. After all, both Revan and the Exile have gone to the unknown regions, so the third game must do the same. If done right that certainly doesn't need to be a bad thing, though. I'd set the first part of the story among some of the more established planet and then move to the unknown Sith empire when going closer to the finale. We're definitely on the same page.

Except Sidious doesn't reduce the aging process. Indeed, he ages much quicker than others, because his dark power breaks down his body rapidly. Instead he grows clones of himself to serve as vessels for his spirit.

I don't agree for several reasons. First of all, while making KotOR3 bigger and larger sounds great, it will require a lot more programming etc. from whoever gets to develop it, and while I'd like that, it's just not realistic to expect it. Besides, given the choice between consistent story and bigger landscapes to explore, I'd go with the plot every time. Exploring huge areas on many planets isn't nearly as important as a fulfilling storyline with a good flow toward the resolution. If the flow is to be consistent, then there is a definite limit to how far you can stretch the action before the plot becomes too convoluted. I think they had that down in KotOR1. KotOR2 pulled it off too (if you consider that much of the plot was cut), but stretched it to the limit (we really didn't want to hear Kreia talk about 'echoes' toward the end anymore...). I don't want KotOR3 to take it too far so that I'll lose interest while playing the game. Which brings me to point two, which is dogfighting. I don't think there should be any. While I loved the X-wing games, KotOR is totally different - it's a (linear) plot-driven CRPG. It's not a starfighter game. To add such sequences would change the basic feel of the game and alienate too many of the fans, myself included. Not because I don't like combat flight sims (I loved X-Wing Alliance), but because I just don't feel it'll be KotOR. These games are about the conflicts between the jedi and the sith - they have plot and character development at their heart, not starfighter battles. What you suggests sounds a lot like a mix between Jedi Academy and X-wing to me. Those are great games, but they're just not KotOR.

One problem with that is that the old guy you meet on Dantooine (you know, the guy who fixes the droids... or at least tries to) tells you that the Sith bombardment targetted some odd ruins to the south that the people of Dantooine don't know so much about. It's pretty clear that this was a reference to the star map on Dantooine, which Malak had destroyed to prevent others from following his trail to the Star Forge (not knowning that Revan and Bastila had already done so). The whole game should be about Revan and the Exile facing the true Sith - it's pretty clear that TSL builds heavily toward that. In fact, TSL won't work at all, if we don't get that showdown in the third game. And no fourth game, please - the Revan saga should end in the third game. That doesn't preclude more games, but they should be clearly post-KotOR games IMHO.

well that's basically always the case when you roleplay it's never the system that makes it what it is <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, but well-written rules with many options can indeed inspire richer and deeper characters. A list of optionable disadvantages, for example, is certainly a great aid for making complex and interesting characters. GURPS has a full chapter of 40+ pages dedicated solely to that (and that's not counting quirks). D&D has nothing.

Because besides fixed and restrictive classes and feats, D&D/d20 also bases a lot of the core functions on things like experience points. Now, accumulating xp isn't a bad idea per se, since at it's core it's a fine representation of progress. But in D&D xp is based on monster slashing - the more monsters you kill, the more xp you get. And it doesn't stop there, no. Every single creature or person is worth xp, so going by the rules, you'd get xp for every single little orc, peasant, ferret, or slug you kill. Sure, you and I can agree that is a preposterous basis for character growth, but it's still right there in the core rules. I much prefer systems where the GM awards xp based on actual role-playing, and where those xp are then used to buy abilities and skills to represent progress rather than to cross some arbitrary xp level. GURPS and WoD does the former. D&D/d20 does the latter, which tends to reward stupid xp abuse over good roleplaying. No, I don't do it either in my AD&D campaign, but it's actually what the rules say. Yes, I'd agree that in that case d20 rules are convenient and appropriate. It's easy to work with and requires players to make few and easy choices during play. There is nothing wrong with enjoying dungeon crawls, and D&D/d20 is appropriate for it, but it still has no depth. I've also enjoyed playing Diablo II on my computer, but I'm not pretending it's a role-playing game, when it's really just a polished hack 'n slash/dungeon crawl game with extremely linear story and no plot options, unlike KotOR, for example. Star Wars movies are fun, but they have no depth next to movies like Blade Runner or Apocalypse Now. They're fun to watch, but once you leave the theatre, that's pretty much it. Same thing with d20 - it may be fun, but the characters has no depth beyond numbers on a sheet of paper. At least none that is supported or encouraged by the core rules. Now, that's not to say that D&D characters cannot be complex or memorable. Indeed, my fondest ever character was a cryptic and secretive D&D wizard, but that was due to my role-playing - he became memorable for me in spite of D&D rules, certainly not because of them. For example, he had an allergy toward horses and was afraid of spiders. That's fun, but D&D rules won't let me represent that in the game (well, 2e player option rules did, not 3e...). Sure, I can still establish it for my character, but it has no consequence in 3e rules. That means such characteristics will be completely voluntary limitations that a player chooses with no redeeming counterbalance in 3e, which tends to discourage players from being creative when giving PCs characteristics. After all, the GM should penalize me if I don't roleplay my disadvantage, so if taking it carries no counterbalance, then I'm unlikely to choose as a player, aren't I? Otherwise a player would just be shooting himself in the foot, which is not a popular pastime...

So if the rules are flawed and restrictive, I should rectify them by redesigning them myself? Well, why bother investing money in the game, if that's not the game I'll be playing anyway? I've heard this argument before from people who seem to like d20. Okay, fine. I'm not going to diss you or anyone else just for liking a system I find to be flawed. To each his own. If I explain my position, I will therefore say things that you don't like reading. So feel free to not read on. The thing is that it still sounds to me like people who like d20 are being apologists for it because they don't like admitting that the system is restrictive. Levels and classes are fine for hack 'n slash or dungeon crawls, and if that's your game then fine - good for you. I, however, don't enjoy it and I find it restrictive to have fixed archetypes forced upon me as a role-player. For 3e I was looking forward to throwing out all my AD&D 2e player option-based house rules, but merely a casual look told me it would be easier to write a completely new system myself. You really need to check out a few other RPGs if you think d20 is flexible and customiseable. Heck, even AD&D 2e was less restrictive - it at least had lists for breaking down the classes in the DMG, which is something strangely missing from the 3e DMG. Yes, that seems to be both TSR's and now WotC's solution to all problems - get the players to buy more books... And failing that, they do a quick revision, forcing people to replace their books as they did with 3.5... Not even TSR ever did that. I'm sure it's financially sound strategy according to the suits, but I'm not going to support it with my money, since it suggests the system was deliberately flawed from the beginning. Good for you and your players. However, I don't think so, and nor did my players. D20 is selling because it holds brand names like D&D or Star Wars or Call of Cthulhu, certainly not because it's better than the alternatives. 5th edition Call of Cthulhu was infinitely better than the d20 rubbish they've released now. I mean, they've applied experience levels to Cthulhu, for crying out loud! WotC should give players conversion options for systems like GURPS or similar and see what their players really prefer... However, they will never do that. Indeed, WotC - by their own admission - intend to all other alternatives to disappear. They don't say it's to monopolize the market, but then they wouldn't... But feel free to disagree with me. Just tell me you've at least tried playing 5th edition Cthulhu or GURPS or World of Darkness or any other system first. If d20 is all you've ever tried, then you have no basis of comparison. Players trying and experiencing alternate rules is WotC's worst nightmare...

LOL My apologies.

Disagree -its much better to simply tell them that CoC is a whole other ballpark. To start like that might kick them off in the completely wrong direction with them carrying Maxim guns and dynamite at all time. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Except that's what your run-of-the-mill D&D player does already. My point was to scare them enough to realize that all their hardware and testosterone won't matter, since they'll die if they try to meet violence with violence... every time! Disagree. Its about horror & mystery and the focus is on investigation and discovery, not necessarily about fighting whatever it is the players discover(attempting it usually gets players killed) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You obviously haven't played classics like "Walker in the Wastes" or "The Masks of Nyarlathotep"... I swear there were times when we were lucky if we lost only one character per gaming session while playing the former "

Well, I've tried both, but it's a real dilemma, and I'll tell you way. First of all, I completely agree with you about the annoying restrictiveness of RPGs using inflexible class systems and so. I could accept it in AD&D because it was an old system, but D&D 3e/d20 was released only a few years back, was a complete rewrite of the basic D&D core rather than an expansion of that core as OD&D, AD&D 1st and AD&D 2nd editions were. D20 is a workable system, but to release a game forcing strict and inflexible class-systems today is preposterous. I genuinely feel that it's release has set development of RPGs back a decade or more, since it's a return to a system base now more than thirty years old. And that age shows... A lot! Like you say, it's simply not good enough that I cannot build the character I want to because the rules are too inflexible to allow it. However, the counter-argument will undoubtedly be that rules serve to maintain game balance. This is true, and it's a reason why I don't like freeform play so much. I've tried a few online freeform RPGs (PBeM), and characters in those games tend to be uber-characters with powers and abilities that are just silly and munchkin. Yes, I want freedom to build my character, but freedom doesn't mean "whatever you please" - there still needs to be some limits somewhere. Truly nature players can handle freeform, but few players are truly adult players... even if they are adults " Far too many fail to resist the temptation of the dark side and instead fall to the temptation to abuse the freedom given to them That dilemma is there and it's no good claiming it isn't. But as I said, I also do not want restrictive rules telling me that I can't do certain things because it was not taken into consideration. If the rules tell me that I must make this or that sacrifice to get the power/ability/whatever that I want as a defining trait for my character, then that's fine. But rules telling me that I just can't do it because the writers couldn't be bothered to include the option I want are obsolete and should be thrown out the window! D&D/d20 is a major villain here, because it forces all sorts of options on you. Why does my D&D rogue get the Sneak Attack feats *forced* on him? After all, I just wanted him because I liked the idea of a sly merchant with lots of skill options who could handle a sword? I did not intend him to be an assassin, so why is that archetype forced on me? Or why can't my wizard be just as good at the innuendo skill as a rogue? He is likely to be just as intelligent if not more, so why can't he make subtle threats and so when he talks? There are no good answers to such questions, nor should there be - the rules should be open enough to allow us options enough, but in many games they simply don't. Thirty or even twenty years ago, this was okay, because RPGs were still in their infancy. D&D has been standing still, however, while most other RPGs have moved forward. Actually, D&D has moved backwards, since the AD&D player option rules (which I use in my AD&D campaign) actually allow far more freedom to mix it up than the d20 version does... This means that D&D today is an antiquated and hopelessly outdated system. But there are games out there that allow far more freedom. It's just a question of finding one where the authors have bothered to design the game enough to allow for possibilities. A class based system is by definition restrictive. I can accept it only if it exists for a reason tied directly to the campaign world (as in White Wolf's games, such as Vampire or Exalted). Sadly, tabletop RPG is today fast becoming synonymous with d20 as the system sweeps the market in a Microsoft-esque attempt to establish the core as a monopoly in the industry. Those of us who don't like restrictive RPGs or who don't want companies to corner or monopolize the market need to stop supporting their games and marketing stategies. There are still alternatives out there. I've been looking into the new edition of GURPS lately, and it looks very polished and open. I'm not going to say it's perfect, but it's certainly a much better and catering system than d20 ever will be, and those areas where I disagree are so tiny that I can fix it with house rules if need be. If I'd begin a new RPG campaign today, I'd definitely use GURPS rules. Well, I guess I'll stop my long boring rant now ...

It's just the way of the Sith - if the apprentice can defeat the master, then the master is no longer worthy and is thrown from power (which usually means killed). It ensures that the Sith are always ruled by the strongest, as evil Bastila put it in KotOR1. Of course, it was rather ironic that Kreia, the great betrayer, was herself betrayed when her apprentices ganged up on her... That's not so much the Sith way, and it began the power struggle that probably gave the game its name.

Shh, you're revealing my secret plan... Oh, and it's not a regenerating mask, really. You remember who ended up with the mask... "

Right now the soundtrack from Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl by Klaus Badelt and Hans Zimmer is playing in the background.

I'm guessing .. Chaotic Evil .. " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, Game Master - much worse... according to my players

That's pretty much along the lines of what I expected too, yes. I should have mentioned this before, but if anyone's interested, the soundfiles I refer to are in the streamvoice/262/SISEND/ folder, files 262SISEND010 to 262SISEND012. There is a possibility to restore it?!? Wow!! That's a very pleasant surprise to me. Don't get me wrong, I don't expect you to, but that it's even being considering it is big news to me. Thank you! After all, it's probably not a sequence many will care about, though I'd obviously like it bad. I thought the sisters got a raw deal - they may have been rather aloof and arrogant, but they were mislead rather than evil, so watching them all be killed off was a bit sad... All that being said, though, I think you guys have been on the right track so far - all the things you've mentioned in your progress reports are admittedly more significant and important to restore than this.

About the repair/computer thing - you have to repair him first before the option to use computer skill on him becomes available. You can use each of these skills on him three times in total IIRC. After that you can do a combined computer/repair option, but which actually boosts the Exile's stats instead of T3's (it's an increase to Wisdom and force points, I think). My character had 16 natural intelligence when getting the intelligence options to question T3 about his past, so I know that works for a fact. Less might do it too, though. Well, it was Revan and it wasn't... The Bastila recording (ugly, ugly holovid, but I digress...) was clearly made before Revan left, because Bastila reveals that she has seen a few glimpses of the future and learned some things against Revan's will from their shared link. There are light and dark side variations of this, but that much is true in both cases, as is the fact that she tells T3 to aid Revan, since Revan will not take Bastila along (to protect her if Revan is light side and because their link can be a threat or distraction to Revan if dark side). And whether light or dark, Bastila also tells T3 to return to the republic and find Bastila if something happens to Revan. Failing that, T3 is to find any other sort of help (evil Bastila doesn't care whether this aid is jedi or sith), so since the Exile is rumored to be the only jedi left at the beginning of the game, that's who T3 is going for. If you want to hear those sound files, they are all located in the /streamvoice/gbl/T3M4/ library. The gblt3m4098 to gblt3m4104 are the light side Bastila comments, and gblt3m4105 to gblt3m4110 are dark side Bastila's. After that are the alternate Carth comments. What's more confusing is where exactly Kreia fits into it all, but Kreia tells us that Revan came to her. This was likely after she was cast out by Sion and Nihilus, and knowing what he was about to do, she probably came with him to the unknown regions, then went back with T3 aboard the Ebon Hawk. Needless to say, HK-47 was probably along for the ride as well, but was damaged in the Sith attack (and he knows nothing since neither Bastila nor Carth would trust him as much as T3... Nor would Revan, come to think of it...) What's really confusing are the other bodies and droid remains we find on the Ebon Hawk during the prologue, because we never hear anything about who those people were. I sure hope it wasn't the former crew of the Ebon Hawk I generally like the subtle plot of KotOR2, but where they really dropped the ball was in introducing us to the game. I mean, you begin unconscious on a smashed Ebon Hawk, not knowing who you are or what the heck happened to the ship... And there is no introduction to the Exile's past. You just know that you did something sinister and troubling in the past, but you don't know what it is, because you don't like remembering or talking about it... huh? By the time Bao-Dur turned up and called me general, I was both confused and annoying because the storytellers wouldn't let me know or identify with the character I was supposed to be role-playing. It's one thing that the ending was lost, but the beginning was actually messed up pretty badly too

I asked this a while ago, but nobody responded, so I'll just repost it in case nobody noticed. Of course, the restoration team may not have considered the following, but if you have, then I'd like to hear your thoughts...

Of course HK-47 will be back - HK-47 and T3 are the C-3PO and R2 of KotOR, so there is no doubt they'll return. Like the droids of the movies, the droids of KotOR are the only recurring characters that sort of binds it all together to a true saga. As for the Exile's companions, I'd bet that a good number of them will make appearances in the game, though it might only be cameo appearances. I particularly noted what Kreia told the Exile about them being the lost jedi, which suggests to me that they stayed together and tried to revive the dying jedi order when the Exile left to follow in Revan's footsteps in the unknown regions. And no doubt Mandalore will be back too. Heh, I want a scene where the group has to sneak into some place, then Mandalore turns and walks away just after saying, "I'll be back" Well, maybe not...

Definitely Darth Nihilus! And I even think there is really good plotwise reasons for having him/her (it?) make a return... I'd also like to see Jolee, Mission and Zaalbar again, but they just aren't as important to the plot as Nihilus.

I think a lot of people are overlooking something with regards to KotOR3. Everybody seems to want either Revan or the Exile (or both) back, and I tend to agree. Where I don't agree is when they conclude that to mean that you must begin as either of these characters. Come on, people - finding out just what happened to Revan and the Exile in the unknown regions is why we'll all be playing the game, if it's ever developed. It's a mystery. And more importantly, it's a selling point: "Find out what happened to your favorite characters - buy KotOR3 today!" It's a strength, and whoever gets to develop KotOR3 would be fools not to mine it. I see a lot of interesting plot potential in leaving the fates of these heroes as mysteries for the player to solve. But of course, that means you must begin the game as someone else, and that's why I support a padawan as a new main character - not to replace Revan or the Exile, but to find them and find out what happened to them, then join forces with them. Besides, Revan and the Exile are both powerful characters now. I really, *really* don't want to play another jedi who conveniently (there's that word again...) lost his jedi oomph... If I must begin play at level 1, then I'd much rather do it with a completely blank character - the jedi-with-troubled-past-or-amnesia plot device is fast getting very, very old in KotOR games, and it's really not going to work a third time. As for Revan and the Exile being of a particular gender or alignment, I really don't think it's going to be a problem. KotOR2 was very carefully written towards an ending where it really wouldn't matter in a third game whether Revan or the Exile ended up as good or bad, because no matter what they chose, they would have to fight the true Sith - good Revans/Exiles would fight to save the republic while evil Revans/Exiles would fight to overthrow the competing Sith and replace them as head of the true Sith empire... For similar reasons, I also think Revan and the Exile will both have fallen to the dark side by the beginning of KotOR3, no matter which sides they chose at the end of the previous games. Note what Kreia tells the Exile about Revan never falling but rather making a sacrifice. As I see it, Revan (good or evil) sent T3 and Kreia back to find the Exile, because he/she knew that he/she would need the Exile either as a powerful but loyal Sith apprentice to help challenge the true Sith for domination of their empire or (if they are both light side) to use the Exile's power of defying the will of the force to pull Revan back. After all, Revan has made the same choice that Ulic Qel-Droma (and Luke Skywalker too btw) did, but unlike Ulic Revan has made plans to secure the Exile has a "safety net" to save him/her - you cannot cheat the dark side, and Revan knows that, since that was the lesson Ulic learned the hard way. Now, the Exile is going to become dark sided too, but the Exile can defy the will of the force if necessary, and that is just the sort of strategy Revan would take advantage of - Revan knows there is no certainty that the Exile's special power can save them, but it's a possibility and therefore a tool he/she can (and will) use. Well, as I see it...

Really? Well, in that case I'll definitely make a note to set Revan's gender to female in KotOR3... But then I'm incurably male