Volourn

"Um, BG series didn't have great freedom...Only game with anything close to "freedom" was FO series. " In the PC RPG genre; it sure does have 'great' freedom. Obviously, FO has even more. "The 'Amnesiac' plot? " Um. Nice try; but PST's plot is the 'Amnsiac plot'. Afterall, that's the entire set up for the PC to care about about the game since you wake in the morgue with AMNESIA and your goal is to remember and.or find out what happened to your memory. Tsk, tsk.

"But a storyline which transcends the endlessly boring 'there's a big bad guy trying to destroy a country/world/galaxy! Go kill him!' does. Especially one as well-designed as Torment." Yeah. Because, the amnesiac plot is sooooooooooooooo much more special and unique. R00fles! "PS:T delivered the complete package;" It's too bad you don't know what 'complete package' means. PST has a great story and great characters; but that does not make the package complete. Afterall, a complete package RPG would be one with great story, characters, combat, freedom, great character creation and ehancement, etc., etc. Only the Bgs, and FOS offer this. They win. Game over. They are the TRUE complete packages.

"Volo, when will you learn how to use the quote function? Its very practical, you know.." One does not need to learn something they already know how to do. I simply find it quicker, and easier to do this. Plus, the whining and flames (not by you; but by others) just makes it more enjoyable. "Alarm has a much smaller AoE than magic missile -- and a lot of spells, really -- has range." Of course, at night, magic missle's effectiveness is lessened due to the fact you can only target what you can see and darkness tends to put a damper on that - even dwarves have darkvision of 60' only; not exactly as long range as a normal magic missle. "I'd say towns are the worst places, because it's so easy to get ambushed in them, especially if magic is being employed by the attackers." Sure; but like I said, such lethal combat isn't that much of a common occurance in towns. "In my experience, one-third to one-half of all D&D battles involve one side being unprepared. " Really? I'd say no more than 1/3; but meh. "Now, are the things you're talking about things that you've actually seen used a lot? Or are you just theorizing that they could be used often to block magic missile?" Often enough to be considered as solid ways to deal with the spell. The problem is that you make it seem like magic missle is some type of super spell that has a habit of completely turning the tide of battle. I have almost never seen that occur. It's a useful spell. Nothing more or less. The only reasons why it's so popular is because it's 'auto hit', and does decent damage the higher you are. Certainly not because it'll break the backs of your enemies. "if you stopped putting words in peoples' mouths. You do this constantly." Maybe I am; maybe I'm not. However, youdid say you prefer to have a magic missle type spell that can basically do the sama damage a dagger does only and repeatedly more or less. When the words fit no need to deny it is my motto. Not to mention, I'm not the only one with this habit. "Conversations with you would be a lot less inane" If it's so horrible to converse with me you cna always stop doing so. I'll survive. I'm sure you will to. No worries for me. "That's a really great rant against something I never suggested. I suggested taking the exact same list of spells in the PHB and dropping them in power by the equivalent of one or two levels and allowing wizards to cast more of them, and more often. Given the same overall body of tools, how does this suddenly make magic less wondrous?" Yeah, make spells lower in level. I see. Because we all know that magic missle is the equal of fireball. Neato. And, while we're at it, let's allow people to spam fireball as often as they do magic awesome. Yup, that's so cool. "Ars Magica allows magi to cast spells a lot. To me, its magic sure as hell feels a lot more wondrous than D&D's. Not because it's powerful, not because it's rare, but because the casters get to use their powers a lot and in many different ways. In my opinion, freedom and mutability make magic feel wondrous. As a player, I feel like I have many choices that I can switch up on a moment to moment basis. Unless you're very high level, even D&D sorcerers don't have that ability." Agreed. Being able to cast spells numerous times repeatedly makes magic more special indeed. Espicially since D&D doens't exactly have some super low limit of how much you can cast. It just doens't allow you to spam magic repeatedly. Ah well. To each own. Have fun.

"At any rate, PS:T is the greatest achievement in a CRPG to date." No.

"My biggest problem with D&D magic is the illogical way casters "forget" spells all of a sudden." Huh? It's very logical why it happens. There's a reason why they have to study their spellbook everyday. "love threads like these where Volourn gets shred to tears and stomped into the ground.. but doesn't realize it!" Ahh. I love when trolls enter threads, and don't even add anything to it except to flame their betters. R00fles! "One could argue that the fact that I got you to waste a spell slot on shield is a good thing. As a player and a DM, I've won more than a few battles by provoking a round of buffs, retreating, waiting, and returning to really start the battle." Yeah, that's most likely because your oppostion (*ie. either the players or DM) were stupid enough to let you get away with such strategy. You mean your enemies didn't chase you down? That just seems silly. "No, not really. You can a) Not be seen b) Wear a brooch of shielding c) Cast shield d) Employ a very small handful of other tactics that replicate these effects." *sigh* Just off the top of my head you can also do the following which your d does cover but way more than just a handful a) minor globe of invulnerbility b) spell resistance through natural ability (very rare for PCs unless the camapiagn allows for drow), spells, or items (also should be extremely rare) c) interrupt the caster Not exactly a few ways do counter the spell... "It's much easier to use shield in a PC RPG because you can usually anticipate battle and you can really anticipate it on a reload. DMs are also much more capable of adapting to D&D tactics than a computer." For, the most aprt, a PC party should be be able to expect and prepare for a battle in pnp. Why? The area should give a hint. If you are in the middle of a dungeon you should always be ready to start casting and swiing, if youa re enter your main quarry's lair/home; be prepared, if youa re in town; you *usually* are safe so you don't have to worry about it as much. If youa re travelling long distances, most things won't be able to sneak up on you simly since it's much easier to see far in the distance giving you time to prepare. Only at night are you in any type of jeopary of being surprised but that should be even limited if prepared with guards, dfensive spells like alarm, a nice fire though not always wise to have one) or light source, etc. Only with teleporting /invisible wizard or sneaky thieves should you even worry then. An unprepared group will have more things to worry about than a simple magic missle. I'm not saying magic missle is useless. It's very useful. But, it's not the be all end all of spells. "The theory is pretty simple. Reduce the power of all available spells by about one or two equivalent "levels". Allow the wizard access to more of them. Give them all mana costs, with enough of a pool to cast four or five in an hour at first level. If a D&D wizard started with a set of four or five equivalent 0-level spells and could do that, I think that would be great. The wizard would be unable to cast spider climb and immediately climb better than the party rogue. The wizard would be unable to cast magic missile and unerringly hit a guy at 100 ft. for more base damage than a dagger. And instead of balancing that by saying, "Well, he can only do X of those at a time N times a day," you balance it by saying that they can't do any task as well, with magic, as the mundane specialist is capable of doing it. If the wizard wanted the equivalent of a D&D magic missile, allow them to use a basic attack with mana power-ups, like the L5R "raises". It would (or could) blow their pool for a long time, and that's their cost. In my opinion, anything that helps a wizard use magic more often and in more ways without allowing them to overshadow the core capabilities of other classes is a good thing." I see. You see magic as just a simple replacement of weapons and other "real" thigs. I see it different. It should be special, i think. It should go beyond the usual into the abnormal; but also not be so freeform that a wizard can cast with impunity which is whre spell slots have their strengths as well as spell components and xp penalty for some spells as well. I don't want a wizard to be basically be someone who weilds a magic missle like some common dagger. That is just plain boring to me, and ruins the whole point of magic being wonderous. I should I, I could live with a 'man system' that allows a spellcaster to cast a spell of their choosing each day 9depending on their level) as long as the mana point pool makes sense, doens't simply regenerate over minutes/hours and the wizard cna only regain them through rest. It wouldn't be my favorite system; but I could accept it as an alternative. Sadly, the majority of mana systems simply don't do that.

"First off, you need to have a clear and definitive alignment, i.e. purish light/purish dark. No fence sitting neutrality stuff here. Secondly, you have to be at least level 15 and have Visas recruited into your party. If you have all these things, then speak with Kreia." "Hades Mode": That's just lame. What a lame way to do prestige classes. "Hades Mode" Seriosuly, that is not good. Not good at all.

"Only, volourn" Talking the entire package; not just the OC. "

"I didn't say either of these." Never said you did; but unlike us normal pukes; you are above simple name calling. "If you have the prescience to cast it. In pen and paper games, the number of times I've seen wizards/sorcerers get off a shield spell when they need it has been low -- whether they were enemies or PCs. The spell only lasts a minute a level, so a caster is almost never just "walking around" with it up. If a wizard puts it up, opposing casters often detect that it was cast and either a) target others with their magic missiles b) target the caster with other spells or c) cast from the direction opposite their shield." All true; but it still useful to have as since a magic missle spell is more dnagerous to a mage in a party than it is to a warrior. The fact you got the opposing mage to change targets is already a good thing. And, that's if he passes the spellcraft check to detemrine which spell is being cast (more than likely for any wizard worth his beans; but not an absolute given). And, like I said, there are tons of other ways to deal with magic missle. Shield is just the easiest and most absic way since it's also a 1st level spell. Remember, that unlike PC d&D games, your typical pnp D&D game is not going to have lots of battles during one day unless the campaign s REALLY, REALLY combat heavy so not being able to cast your sheild spell as soon as you wake up isn't too bad anyways. "Mana is about having a common pool of energy from which a variety of effects are drawn. Specific implementations of mana systems don't discredit the type of system itself." Maybe. But, everything cna look good in theory; but in practice I have yet to see personally a mana magic system that gives the versality that people brag about and still keep the spam a spell under complete control. Until then, I'll contninue to have my doubts when hearing people praise it. "lot of times, the challenges of an adventure are unknown until they are encountered. That's why it's an "adventure" and not a plodding path through predictable encounters. A D&D wizard can plan for encounters for hours and still be caught completely unprepared by what awaits him or her in the session." True, and false. Sure, adventiures are often unpreditcable. Afterall, in theory, that's what makes them most interesting. Of course, that's why scroll creation was invented by some know it all wizard all those eons ago. Scroll crafting is rather cheap (too cheap almost, imo) so you can use that to make sure you have at least a few copies of those odd spells that rarely come into play but when they do are very useful ( water breathing one example of this), and a few extra combat spells just in case you do run out of your spells. "The system mechanics fit how the designers built the cosmology of the D&D universe. Not exactly an awesome or even difficult task." Maybe so; but it is still very logical; and still gives a wizard (and other casters) a lot of freedom to play their character as they see fit without completely free reign to spam spells like mana systems do.

"sleeping every 2 minutes while in the midst of battle" If you have to sleep every 2 minutes you arne't playing intelligently and/or your DM (and this includes the silly NWN OC rules or even other D&D PC games) didn't plan the adventure enocunters properly. Next exuse... so I can destroy it. Thank you, and have a nice day.

"Aside from the fact I am here to rule the world?" Words of Advice: When wanting to rule the world; posting o a mesage baord is NOT the way to accomplish the goal. However, I'm sure you know that. "

I see a lot of accusations of me being stupid, and how "unbalanced" D&D magic; but have yet to see any proof of the latetr; and the former has been known for almost 3 decades so nothing new there. Drakron has alreaydd ealt with magic missile. It's very easy to counter with another level 1 spell as well as tons of other spells. D&D magic is many things; but unbalanced; i think not. Mana is about spmaming spells at your whim with pretty much no limit. Even Drakron's examaple of SW while tolerable is not that impressive. D&D magic is plainly better because as a wizard you actually have to think and use your intelligence - obviously something that many abhor doing. Go figure. It's also very logical due to how the D&D magic ethos works. Magic doesn't come from someone anturally (unless you are a sorceror which is a mix of mana and D&D magic and is actually somewhat cool); but comes from studious study of magic and how it works and how to form it. Bottom line, D&D rocks. Period. As to the one who yelled,"You will buy it anyways!"... Guess what? I didn't recall saying I wans't going to buy DA. My name is not Hades. It's gonna take more than one dumb decision like a silly mana magic system tos top me from buying it. Please don't put words in my post. Thank you.

"Sacred cow." No. Youa re absolutely wrong. D&D magic system is fantatsic. I've expalined why multiple times. Not gonna bother to again until someone gives an actual good reasons why the D&D magic system is as horrible as they claim it to be. To me, it seems most claims of it being horrible are 'it doesn't give me much power as I'd rather spam spells non stop". R00fles! And, no, Orik, mana systems buy and large, I have yet to see a good one. At best, they are abrely acceptable ala BL. Otherwise, poo poo is their middle name.

"At level 1, a fighter can swing his sword for the whole day without suffering fatigue yet a wizard may cast only two magic missiles and that's it? Bah!" If you knew anything about D&D; you'd knopw that magic doesn't work like swinging a weapon. Magic does not = just another weapon Tsk, tsk. P.S. Mana magic systems suck the big one! P.S.S. D&D has mana magic too.

"Planescape Torment is the greatest rpg of them all. There is absolutely no doubt about that and it is a solid fact." A fact? Hahah. It's good; possibly even great; but the best? No. Not even close. that remains to be BG series, FO series, NWN, and the Ultimas (most of 'em anyways).

"Sounds a lot like Troika's multiple beginnings for ToEE. I am not impressed and Bioware sounds like they are just trying to hype up the game. Hype equals lies." I guess the "new you' is gone now? " "Ever since baldurs gate 2 came out, i have never bought into biowares hype." That explains why you bought NWN and its two expansions and still seem to play it. R00fles!

I dislike mana magic systems; but I have a feeling that other things in DA will make up for BIO's poor choice in that aspect. It takes more than one bad thing to ruin a game unless you are anal.

"That said, even what immaturity, triteness and poor writing that was at times present in FO2 comes nowhere near the same degrees present in the BG series, particularly in BG2." Oh please. Both of youa re wrong. Neither BG or FO series had that much immaturity. And, certainly, they weren't poorly written. Tsk, tsk.

"DA is more a BG mirror image." No, it isn't. Last I checked, BG didn't have a toolset at all. Last I checked, Bg didn't have a DM client which i do believe DA has (could be mistaken here though). The tooslet will probably be more complicated to use than NWN1/2s; but I doubt it'll be as complicated as I you presume... As BIO has said, DA is a combination of BG, NWN, and KOTOR - basically all of their games. As for me, I'll buy both.

Why did the poll get removed? It was very valuable...

"I thought dragons were immune to dragon breaths?" They are depending on the type. But, it's also the "piss off" factor and the fact that the two dragons in question weren't in their 'right minds' at the time.

"Well, my little halfling rogue monk fought two dragons at the end of the OC. It was freaking ridiculous because they were doing more damage to each other than my character." Nah. We had this discussion before. It makes total sense on why that happen.

Yeah. Whatever. Keep claiming that and someone will eventually believe you. If they are gullible.

"For what it's worth, I also thought Baldur's Gate offered more of a challenge than Neverwinter Nights.' Overall, I'd agree that BG2 offered more challenge than the NWN OC; but we were discussing dragons... "

No. You are wrong. Period.

"Like I said I wasn't expecting NWN to be a super game from the gods, just a game that is on par in quality as Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2. At least dragons in BG 2 were a challenge." Meh. Firkragg and Co. were nowhere enar as challenging as Big Red tm.