Volourn

"Never said it didnt. I said it reduced the range of character customisation." Of course, this discussion began with Hades saying JE wasn't a CRPG, and me disagreeing. One of my quick points was the fact that the fact that JE has a limited inventory shouldn't stop it from being cosnidered a CRPG. You countered, and said it does. Now, you saying it doesn't? Hmm.. "Kreia was only easy because of your stuff Li is just easy period." No. Kreia is easy period. The stuff is because of ph@t lewt. "Golem and attack, dead in less than 30 seconds no uber equipment or even using gem stones." I cna beleive this. Golem is a little too overpwoered. Anyone doesn't use golem will have a lot more challenging time with Li, hwoever. With kreia, no matter what you do or what strategy you use, she is likely to be easy. There is only one way to make Li easy and its golem. When JE2 come sout, I hope BIO has balanced that power better. Cool idea - afterall, who doens't enjoy walkinga round as a golem - but, definitely a tad overpowering. Heh. "Really ? Didnt all your characters have at least one weapon skill, one MA skill and one magic skill ? Sounds pretty carbon copy to me." Nope. Becuase the differnet skills even those of the same category work different. For exmaple, having skill in the sword or having skill in the staff or having skill in the ax are three different abilities. And, my magic user character put absolutely no puts in any weapon skill. None. Zilch. Zero. My characetrs should didn't feel carbon copy, and they played differently within reason cosnidering they are all Kung Fu Masters much like all KOTOR characetrs are all Jedis. Talk about carbon copies. LOL

"No loot reduces the customisation options. Added to JE only having three stats made for some very samey characters." First part is true. But, just because item customization is lowered doesn't make it a non role-playing game either. JE only has 3 main stats, it also has 3 substats plus 3 dialogue skills. Not to mention all the other powers one can get and modify. I played and finished JE three times. All three characters played differently espicially when you throw in the different experiences you get with the different way of dealing with quests, npcs, and the like. In fact, my third character was all about magic and summons with no wepaons except against enemies that wer eimmune to them so I had to 'struggle' with melee weapons with my worthless abilities in that regard. "Fine if you want all your characters be carbon copies of each other in the way they play." Nope. No carbon copies. "Really, well why dont you share what you did to beat Kreia and then I'll tell you how to beat Li without any effort." Eh. Not much to say. I was a Jedi with super high ac (50+), super saving throws and ph@t lewt. I pointed my attack button on her and her sabre guardians and pressed it. Game over. They could only hit me on really high rolls like 19 or 20, and her force powers wer emostly a joke as I never failed a save. P.S. JE's engine ha svery little in common with KOTOR. Combat is more challenging, the role-playing is deeper, the quests are better with more ways to complete them, an dit has much better endings with 3 actual endings + varied endings for the different npcs (most of them, anyways).

"I was able to get him down to zero health in a single flurry though" Impressive.

Both KOTOR bosess were easier than JE's. Well. Malak could be tricky if you came unprepared without healing kits. And, you didn't have to fight Li at the end either. "Phat loot does define much of the customisation process and thats what JE lacks." Collecting ph@t lewt isn't role-playing. Role-playing is about making meaninful choices that effect your character, other characetrs, and the game world. JE allows this. It may not be the best Ph@t Lewt Collector Simulation; but since that isn't the genre it's in; no worries there. "Any of those sub 30 seconds and involve pressing only two buttons ?" Kreia. And, it only takes one click of button. Or a few more to beat up on ahc of her light sabres. I used a whole bunch of buttons to fight Li. "It doesn't feel like a CRPG. It feels like an action adventure game. Yes, it is bloody arbitrary. Deal with it." That's ok. It is still a role-playing game. :cool:

"Well, I like Jade Empire a lot and I don't consider it a CRPG." Why not? It has every thing a CRPG should have. Character based stats, and skills, multiple ways to complete quests, story based, joinable party members, role-playing in general. The only thing one could could argue is the real time combat it has; but that's balanced out by the fact that a character's stats are important to the combat (though not as much as say in FO or TOEE). So, why isn't it by your definition, not a CRPG? Because it's inventory system doens't allow yout o pick up ph@t loot ? Ph@t lewt collection doesn't equal role-playing. JE is more of a RPG than either KOTOR or TOEE, or even BG. Even BL is a RPG even with its RT combat.

"Given the stupidity evident on the bioware boards it wouldnt suprise me. But the fact still remains that TOEE requires more and faster knowledge of the rules than NwN." TOEE is full turn base. This means you aren't rushed. On top of that, you will have a party of at least 4. Include the fact that the various starting areas that have combat are really easy (even eaiser than the full game). P.S. Weird. I've seen the goblins in the prlogue do as much as double digits with a crit. They use short swords (and morningstars) so that's 1d6 -1 'cause IIRC they're strength is 8. But, that's old news. Heh. P.S.S. Enemies with 320k hp in a d20 rules etting (even one as simplified as the KOTOR series) just wouldn't work. The rules don't work with that. I know, I've seen some NWN PWs that think that's actually cute. LOL "White Wolf did a really good job at 'Vampire: Bloodline'. When you fought through the game, the difficulty changed. During battle is was realtime, and it worked out great. I felt like things keeped movine, and I didn't have to wait my turn to strike." WW didn't make it. Troika did. I enjoyed BL; but its combat was very poor, imo. Too easy, too boring, and simply not fun for me. however, one or two combats were. They weren't the norm. However, BL's story telling, dialogue, and role-playing was very, very good.

"Even someone who dosnt know the D&D rules could get through most of the prologue and pick things up along the way" Again, I reccommened to anyone some reading of the NWN Spoilers Section. That would really blow this kind of thinking sky high. There are more than a few complaints that the prologue is too tough. Remember, even the super easy goblins there could kill a 1st level character in one hit - espiciially a wiz or sorc or even bards and rogues. Read the spoilers section. "As a parallel to this definition, any time I eat something, but do not enjoy it as much as I expected, it is no longer defined as food." Haha. :D

"Can I take aimed shots in KotORs or NWN, Jade Empire, and such games? Nope." Yes, you can. In fact, both NWN and KOTOR have feats that do exactly that. In fcat, many full fledge turn base games don't even the ability to take aimed shots. NWN, for example, has called shots for the arms and legs. "On normal dificulty in Fallout 2 an optimized character can still get his or her butt kicked in the Temple of Trials." Really? The Temple of Trials is very ahrd to die in. While FO2 is more challening than KOTOR1&2; the TOT is not. On top of that, the difficulty of a game has NOTHING to do with TB or RT. I would say it's impossible to die in the TOT with an 'optimized' character built for combat. But, to say that, I need to know what you mean by 'optimized'. I've played lots of easy tb games. TOEE surely comes to mind. I've played lots of challenging rt games. BG series (well.. it's technically a mixed of real and turn base at the core). KOTOR series may be easy; but it has nothing to do with its mixed real and turn base combat. I also remember you saying that you felt 'challenged' by JE (that's the game not the developer, lol). Weird now that you are arguing otherwise. SP: Not so true. You need to know the rules to play NWN successfully. Just read the NWN GD and Spoilers section of all three campaigns to see what I mean. Lots of people have MAJOR problems fighting those battles simply because they misunderstand or just don't know about a certain rule. Example: Someone whines about a certain party vs party battle in HOTU being impossible. Some NWN/D&D expert comes in bragging how that fight was a walk in park because they had x class, xparty members, and x items, and totally talks down to the first guy. NWN is very unforgiving when it comes to not not knowing the rules.

Jaheria was awesome. One of my fave npcs ever. Definitely superior to Bastila who was just an Aribeth wannabe anyways. LOL As for the atcual topic, some of the games I sued to have good fun playing... long time ago. None of those games would likely entertain me for more than 2 minutes now due to their simplicty.

Good combat. That's all I want. Llyranor, and I win.

"So the fact that in K1 the plot was obvious after 2 planets and you spend two thirds of the game whacking droids, mandalorians, spiders and kath hounds doesn't matter a bit? I mean; I do enjoy combat; if it's well done and requires at least a small amount of preparation and thought(like in BG 2 for instance), I can survive through zounds and zounds of it without getting bored. K1 had none of that." KOTOR2's combat was even easier than the eays KOTOR1 combat. And, it's plot was even more obvious consideirng that the main villainess was obviously in your party from the start. You should play KOTOR2. It's a fun game. :cool:

That's true. It was easy to figure out that Kreia was the Big Bad tm as soon as you first meet her when she is 'faking' her death. LOL What thinking does KOTOR2 require? It's set up exactly the same way KOTOR1 is - go collect x items... opp star maps... oops jedi masters. LOL I think both games are about equal, and both Obsidian (in the past for those memebers who worked at BIS) and BIO have done much better stuff with BG series, JE, PST, and FO2. KOTOR1 has a superior main character, a more realistic main villain that you aren't forced to travel with, some better written quest, and much less bugs over KOTOR2. KOTOR2 has better useage of skills in dialogue (one of the best games ever in that regard), and Obsidian went 2/3 of using old KOTOR characters in ameaningful way (the two robots with the smaller one being much better done) over KOTOR1. Neither KOTOR is deep, and neithe requires a greta thinking ability. Kreia is nothing more than your typical hatemonger dedidctaed to wiping her enemies out. She is just another Malak. Sure, they give her lots of dialogue that tries to sound deep but ultimately falls flat when it comes down to the same thing - Jedi and more specifically evil. She complains about others seeing things in black and white yet she is more guilty of anyone of doing just that. LOL At least, while Malak is not deep (afterall, his main purpose is to antagonize the player) I'd rtaher have a 'shallow, obvious' villain than a 'shallow, obvious' villian who talks a lot. Both games are around 75-80%. Good, and fun. But I felt no need to finish them a second time though I most definitely tried to.

What a joke! Just return the thing if it doens't work properly. Definitely not worth a lawsuit. It should be thrown out.

I find th elevel of maturity has nothing to do with age. A lot of so called 'older people'e extremely immature. In fact, they're usually worse because they actually self delude themselves into believe they are mature when they aren't.

BL is a good game. Not great; but good. Pros - Role-playing, Characters, and Dialogue (for most of it) Negatives - Combat, Bugs, Combat, The Endings, Combat

"Flame war? Off topic maybe, but it looked like a discussion to me. He just closed it because someone wasn't praising Bio, and they simply couldn't have that. I remember at the end, shortly before I signed up here, anytime I said anything that didn't border on Bio propaganda got me flamed or the thread closed within a day or two." You should read more of the BIO baords. There's a lot of criticism about BIO that's left untouched. But, yeah, flame wars are usually eventually locked up. "Hey Gaider, One Dimensional badguys like Malak and Sun li died out in the 80's. Get with the times." Like FO2? PST? Like KOTOR2? Like IWD1? Like IWD2? Hmm.. Seems to me that BIO isn't the only one with that problem.. Not that I feel it's a real problem. Usually a character that is such a major antagaonist of the PC for the entire game isn't exactly gonna go,"Oops! My apologizes! I didn't mean to try to kill you 100 times! Can we just be friends!" That simply isn't realistic. That isn't one dimensional. That's being true to one's character.

"Its our way of bantering backi and forth. Don't like it, use the ignore function. If Volourn and I ever met in real life we probably do the same thing in normal conversation mode. HAHAHAHA! One of my RL friends do this sort of thing all the time. It really gets on the nerves of the gaming group because we can banter nonsensical for hours like that." Hehe. if only one of my RL traits have shown up on the baords, it's my ability to go back and forth on even the most anal of subjects for a very long time. LOL

"As a moderator at Obsidian I see the following advantages and disadvantages with having the NWN2 forums hosted by BioWare: - A game developed by OE should be hosted by OE, I know some of the devs have expressed concern that this split makes it difficult for them to take the time to post on their own boards. - The OE forums are much faster and less cluttered. + Not having 10000 ewoks bombarding the forum with the same questions over and over again 100times a day makes my job easier" I agree with the genius who wrote this more less. Of course, these seem to be the disadvantages listed only. LOL Talk about misadvertisement in the first sentence. "Sorry, but you two seem to have symptons of an issue known as "grasping on straws" aka " argument not really worth the efffort at all"." Eh. All in good fun. It's better and less annoying to disucss how much dollars Hades has spent on NWN then on the 'mine is bigger than yours' argument that's going on between the BIO vs. Obsidian Posters thing. Thankfully, the Obsidian and BIO devs tend to stay out of it. "They had a special if you preordered it. I don't count txes because taxes don't go to the company nor the business I am buying it from. It goes to the state and/or federal government. That is often why it is cheaper to buy things online for you don't pay state taxes on most purchases done there."

"Did he say that he bought them all at full price?" Well... He bought them all as soon as they came out (within aweek so you, Hades, don't suggest you didn't buy it as soon as they did. lol). "Total of $96. That is over a time frame of 3 years. Not a lot of money at all." Plus taxes. And, if you only spent $30 on NWN Original when it first came out - even if it is Amerikan - I gotta say that's a pretty cheap store you bought it from. Heh.

"At least in the relativelly small RPG world." Keep my comments in perspective. BIO is nowhere near Blizzard's level when it comes to all of gaming. "I haven't even broken broken past $100." Ok. Uhuh. You bought NWN, the two expansions, at least one repurchase of all three, and three different PM packages yet haven't spent $100. Right. Espicially consideirng that NWN is commonly referred to as one of the most expensive games ever. "Good point of bioboards is that you can say **** there. Edit: bio weenie" Heh. Yet, people accuse BIO of being over sensitive to flames and the like.

New Update: Neverwinter Nights, and Madden 2006 though Madden is annoying me right now 'cause of the ease of interceptions. LOL :D

"Yes, I agree they make good games but that is nothing special compared to other game companies that make good games." The difference is they don't just make one good game and disseappear. They make game afetr game. The fact that you of all people like JE even though it's combat is real time action says a lot. The fact that as much as you complain about NWN you have spent a lot of money and time on it. "They can't stand an honest opinion." There's honest opinion, and then there's just plain rudeness. i, perosnally, have no problem with people being rude or mean or cruel; but it makes sense for a professional company to cut the people. There's A LOT of people who spend their days criticizing BIO on the BIO baords, and nothing happens. The difference is they criticize; they don't atagonize or attack. P.S. As Rhomal knows I cna't post in that thread; but I'll just say that both baords (like all baords) have their share of good and evil posters as well as spam, and everything else. The biggest differences to me is that Obsidian boards are quicker and BIO boards have a sueprior exchange of ideas mainly because of all the dev posts - both BIO and Obsidian -. I like 'em both in spite of certain dramas.

I'm not getting involved. I have my own Forum Dramas to deal with. LOL :D "Not worth my time. Bioware peeps have actually bought into their press thinking that they are all that. They make good games, but they aren't gods of gaming as they think they are." Sure, they are. At least in the relativelly small RPG world. How many game devloeprs get their games unsed in colleges and univeristies amongst other stuff? BIO, and their games may not be perfect; but they're as close to a surefire hit as any RPG company can be.

"Heres the important bit. The Bad: Many of the unique gameplay features of the last couple of Madden games are missing; lots of missing modes--all you get is a husk of a franchise mode and online play; some unsightly animation and graphical hang-ups that stick out all the more on a next-gen console; you can't challenge plays. Probably enough there to justify the score , which is only going to be approximate anyway since it's one guys opinon. Wouldnt place any faith (actually less) in the reader votes since people go around inflating and deflating the scores." Really? They really cheated the x-box/x-box 360 fans then. I just bought Madden 2006 for the PS2 two days ago, and it has all the old features from the old version plus a bunch of new stuff. It definitely allows one to challenge plays. In fact, I got back the ball after I had 'fumbled' the ball and challenged the call successfully. The Franchise Mode is even deeper before with a choice of praticing key plays before each game to better prepare your team. And, the graphics are as close to perfection as one could expect. Weird... Us PS2 Madden fanboys got an awesome Madden 2006. Sucks to be a x-box 360 Madden fanboy. Hehehe.

"reviewer has a rant about how there is no functional multiplayer. If you dont care about multiplayer , then it wont be a 60% to you." Exactly.