Volourn

"Hell, even in the Realms sewer architecture is different from region to region. I don't think the cities of Thay would use the same style as the city of Waterdeep, you know." True. btw, Folks, arguing over which is setting is bets is silly espicially in regards to PS. FR, GH, et all are ALL about of the PS setting. Hahahahahahhaha.

"It took Elminster 500 years to go from level 1 to level 33rd (or what level he is currently at) so does it make any sort of sense that it would take a character from level 1 to level 20 in the span of a few in game weeks? No, it does not." You seem to be leaving out a small detail here. Most of Elminster's leveling took place when he was just a young man. Afterall, the only reason why he has lived so long is that he/is a Chosen of Mystra. Alos, you can't really compare levels per hours in a video game with pnp levels per hour. Lots of the hours spent in pnp is rolling dice, and eating potato chips. In video games, all the rolling is auto done by computer therefore combat which cna take an hour in RL takes a few minutes in game. You can also accomplish 'epic quests' in a computer game in much less time than you do in pnp. In essence, you are comparing apples to oranges here. I think a level per 2 hpurs is not that bad in a CRPG environemnt. In pnp, it would be horrendous. "The main story of NWN was criticised," Criticized by some; enjoyed by others. Even some of those who criticize it have played it multiple times so it cna't be all bad. (w00t) Not saying it's perfetc as it wasn't. Afterall, some of the dungeons/caves were just overfilled monste rhives. The biggest example of this was the goblin/orc/bugbear/ogre caves of ch2. Most of that could have been cut in half,a nd still would have gotten the plot thoroughly explored.

The same goes for D&D as a whole. Afterall, medival times did not have dragons, magic, and etc. And,d efinitely not flying ships. Plus, NWN2 is very much a FR product. Afterall, its title is a FR city. Coincidence? I think not.

"So why are the ceilings so high?" Because, that's the way dwarves tend to build. They aren't the pathetic hobbits of LOTR, afterall. Not to mention dwarves may be shorter, on average than humans; but their hieght can reach 5'. "They need to look medieval." No, they don't. They need to look Realmisan. People seem to mix them up. Realmsean does not equal Medieval. They are very LOOSELY based on it. Let's get it right, folks.

"Dungeons, on the other hand - who's building these things in the middle of nowhere?" Dwarves. In the Realms specificlaly the majority of dungeons are ancient dwarven strongholds that were in ancient times overrun by scum monsters. This includes the grandest of them all - Undermountain. That's right folks. Halaster didn't create Undermountain... "Plus, sewers don't just have rats" Rats are the least of ones' worries in sewers. Do people rmemeber the BG1, and BG2 sewers. As well NWN sewers. Rats were the elast of the problems encountered. BG1 - Sarevok hide out, and Ogre Mage lording over slimers. BG2 - Lead to the Celkstial Fury group, and beholder undertunnels. NWN - The dead chidlren storyline took place here... Good stuff. "Volourn, he said "in their right mind."" Heh. Good point. Still there are lost of reasons why those in a reasonable mind would enter sewers.

"What kind of person in the right mind would voluntarily spend hours treading around in sewers?! " An adventurer. You know the same types that willingly chase down, and hunt 200'+ long man eating dragons just for the thrill of it. The know the same types that enjoy a merry trip to hell to say hello to the local Demon Lord. etc., etc.

"Uh...It seems as though you guys missed my post." No. Simply unimportant in this thread. This threa dis about length - check the title. there are other NWN2 threads dedicated to other issues like the level of actual role-playing and what not.

"On your first playthru?" Yes. FO, while awesome, was relatively short. And, that's not coutning the fact that it's easily possible to finish the game in under an hour (by joining the Mutants). "13-15 hours of RPG goodness and shoot'em up crappiness and it was over. I almost felt guilty for suggesting the game to my cousin (who bought the damn thing)." 20-30 hours. Anyone who took less time than that were simply rushing and not playing the game. Period. " the secondary ending is just something that let's interested people find out more about the story. It's probably 3-5 hours long, tops. It's just a small part after you've finished the game and beaten the final boss." I didn't care for DQ8 and find it overrated; but that's actually a pretty cool idea.

"Did you finish Fallout, PS:T or Baldur's Gate in 30 hours?" FO easily under 30 if not 20 hours. PST is a maybe. Definbitely no more than 40 hours or so. BG no. NWN no. It was around 40-50 hours. Maybe a little less.

"That even the corpse of those partially responsible for fallout and torment is making a 15 hour dungeon romp is disturbing indeed." Oh please. FO was about 20 hours if one was lucky. It wa smore like 10-15 hours. PST was pushing 40 hours at the extreme length. 30-40 hours is a very solid number if it's quality. Sure, I'd love 100s no 1000s of hours of play; but let's get real people. Until gamers are willing to pay $200 per game you ar estuck with this length for most games that arne't crap like DQ8. P.S. Ahh.. Both endings? So the game was more like 50-60 hours. Hmmm.

Agreed, but again, Obsidian is more trustworthy on this. They are the professioanl who are paid instead of those who do it on a whim who only focus on what they like. LONG LIVE OBSIDIAN MADE SEWERS IN NWN2 EXPANSION1! That is all.

The word emulate says everything. You could emulate sewers; but you cna't have a sewer. Afterall, Obsdiain says there are NO sewers. If they say there are NO sewer tilesets there are no sewer tilesets. You cna't get clearer than that. Yes, they've said you can emulate sewers. This si true. And, yes, it will be passable, and be ok. But, it still won't be sewers unless someone makes a sewer tileset hak much like the swamp tileset haks for NWN1 or until Obsdiain adds one themselves. I don't need to have the toolset to know what Obsidian has stated just like you don't need it to *know* that you can EMULATE sewers. Not trying to be difficult, btw, just going by the information that Obsidian has shared with us. "because Obsidian doesn't add sewers-assets doesn't mean the mod community won't make any." True; but I'd rather have Obsidian make them. Like the swamp tileset hak is good in NWN1; but I would ahve rathered if BIO had put in a swamp. Same with NWN2 and sewers.

It's a GIGANTIC issue. You may make somehting sewer-like; but it will not be a sewer. Just like in NWN, it was possible to make a swamp like area; but there was no swamps. P.S. I know it isn't new; but every time it's brought up in interviews,a rticles, and threads I will share my opinion on it being missing (until it's added in expansions) much as other as others will post how they are proud that Obsidian is ignoring Sweet Sewers of Sainthood. P.S.S. And, sewers aren't about killing rats. That is just silly, and unimaginative talk.

Too bad about sewers. They are an important part of D&D, fantasy games, and the Realms. Everything else in the article is mostly good stuff though.

D0uble R00fles!

"Hmm... Star Citadel 2 perhaps?" Nope. And, though I knwo you are half joking, I'll tell ya why. 1. There is no Star Citedal. 2. BIO is going to develop ME1, 2, and 3. 3. Mass Effect *is* Star Citedal. As for Obsidian's unannounced game. We shall see... I expect to see the same people whining as per usual. Nothing new on that front. It's more of a broken record than if Obsidian were to make KOTOR 25.

Some of his moves are okay. I think people go overboard sometimes. Hey, that's an understatement.

"Or do you guys actually agree that KotORII has stolen the plot from PS:T?" Not exactly; but it surely lifted quite a few ideas, and themes. And, some characters have a lot in common with PST characters. And, I don't think it's a coincidence. But, don't worry, Obsidian isn't the first game to rip off PST. A Bioware dev did the same thing with Witch's Wake, a NWN PM.

"But the US has a rich history of making utterly crap laws, as you can also see here" I seriously doubt the US is the only country with ridiculous or stupid laws past or present or future. "Anyways, once again, you Yanks are screwed..." Not as bad as Europe was some 60-70 years ago... Or the ME is curently. Or Africa is thanks to good 'ol Europe... Or the Natives of North Amerikans thanks to our European Ancestors. You see, you arne't the only one who can throw out anti x country bigoted comments. And, the good thing is I'm not even Amerikan. Sad thing is I'm stuck being French! R00fles! " (w00t) P.S. This law is no doubt stupid, and will be ahrd pressed to win a vcitory in the courts... like most stupid laws in your silly link that even the site owner there doesn't even know if they're real laws or not. Ha.

The only mention of a volcano in thata rea in the book is Mount Hotenow (lol) which is actually located in Neverwinter Wood. Also, as perspective, the area the map shows inbcludes Icewind Dale (far, fqr north mountainous area) which is part of the Sword Coast North. I'd have to dig deep into more specifc books to find more info. Not gonna do it tonight. (w00t)

"Seriously Volourn...you've taken a positive thread and ruined it with your condescending remarks." hey, my first post was positive. All i did was point out someone was mistaken when they said 'modern games' didn't have any world maps and then someone took that personally. Afterall, my first post in this thread was the following: "Yes, it's the new overland map I believe. It looks nice. Sweet." Mkreku, not offhand, but I'm sure someone can open up the Realms book to find out.

"They should just go by what the story is trying o do. Does it make sense for this guy to have this item at this time so to speak." Absolutely agreed. 100% agreed. Sadly, no game that includes magical items does this 100%.

"pointed that out because that's what original poster tried to say: NWN1 had no world map, NWN2 will have it." "Long time since I played a modern game that had one of those" Thanks for playing; but you do realize NOT all posts in a thread are directed at the thread starter, right? Afterall, your last 2 posts were directed at me much as my comment that you commented on was NOT directed at the thread starter. You lose. Just admit it, and move on. Or we can continue spinning your embarassing heel. Thanks. P.S. The original poster didn't mention NWN1 AT ALL.

"NWN1 had no world map." Please share a quote of mine where I stated it did. I won't be holding my breath for it. R00fles!

"While magic is well known, accepted and not particularly mysterious in Faerun, it's also not shown (in the novels anyway, at least the ones I read back in the late 80s, early 90s) as being anywhere near as plentiful as it was in NWN. BG1 was closer to how it was depicted in the novels, BG2:SoA was pushing the limits, and BG2:ToB and NWN really went overboard." Eh. You shouldn't go by novels, relaly. And, no game, not even BG comes close to ph@t lewt levels. Afterall, in pnp it's strictly up to the DM. i've played FR campaigns where magic was rather rare and others where it grows on trees (almost literally!) I don't worry about video games' treasure level' because IMO their all over the top. All that matters to me is if the combat stays relatively balanced and fun. The biggest problem is that in pnp the Dm just needs enough variance in magic items to satisfy one party when CRPG dveeloeprs need enough to satisfy many, many players with different magic item desires.