Volourn

"According to Bonnell, the decision to sell the developer studios reflects a "refocus of [the company's] creativity efforts on external studios, rather than internal development." This won't effect Obsidian or NWN2 at all most likely. If Atari does eventually fold; it'll be after NWN2 is released since that's only like 4 months or so away. If they do fold, that would be the second publisher for BIO that had success with them to fold after parted ways (though BIO and Atari still work together :D ). Maybe LA, and MS will be next to suffer the BIO Curse tm.

"You see, Troika never found out something very essential. First you bring out a topless vestal virgin to do a bump and grind, then have the muscle men do their dervish dances with turn of the century excuses for a burlesque -- you do that every once in awhile. Between these points, have excellent gameplay including ethical situations and combat, romance and pastoral moments, horror and intrigue, blah blah blah. It's not just killing that draws people to a game," That's weird. BL had lots of b00bies, semi naked women, etc. and the game still wasn't a great seller. People like to blame potential customers (the masses) for Troika's fall; but that's silly. Troiika did try to reach the masses - RT combat and MP with Arcanum, D&D with TOEE, and RT combat and b00bies with BL. None of it worked.

"They said there was going to be horses, and there damn well better be horses." More importantly, they said there'd be rideable horses. Not maybe or whatever; but there would be rideable horses. Afterall, they stressed the fact that horses would be the *only* rideable creature in the initial release. Rideable horses are kinda like sewers. They're not needed 100%; but they sure are nice to have. Of course, the horse thing is even worse than sewers because they never actually said sewers were in... LOL "I think one of the arguments against a D&D game having mounted combat is the fact that D&D is, all told, a simplistic system and confined to certain rooms, etc." Absolutely false. You obviously haven't played D&D. Confined to certain rooms? Are ya drunk? As for mounted combat, D&D has lots of rules/guidelines for it... and, it's there for a reason. "You missed the part where nwn2 will have a world map I take it..." If the world map has a travel time, horses would still be valuable as they could be used to move quicker than walking.

I watch hockey for the skill, the speed, the passing, the gaols, the saves, and the drama of cheering for ones' favorite teams and players. If I wanna watch violent sports, I'll watch boxing thank you very much. And, I don't turn my head, I just roll my eyes. Fighting adds nothing positive to the game, imo, and yes, I know my fellow Kanadian Barbarians disagree. I mean, they should allow people to fight in football, baseball, and basketball. LOL Hockey is the only professional sport that allows fighting to take place (not coutning stuff like boxing where fighting is the whole point of it :D ). Such a garbage aspect of the otherwise great sport (even if it now has lameo shoot outs).

"Christ is not the son of God. Christ was a smart, educated man who came back on his home soil after 20 years of walking the known world and began educating his fellow man. The knowledge he posessed was so advanced compared to that of his people that they worshipped him as the son of God, a God that does not exist. Let the flaming... BEGIN!" You insult the Christian, and Catholic faiths! They shall now riot and threaten to destroy all of Kanada! You jerk!!! To consider Jesus anything less than the Son of God is blaspphemy of the highest order! I am not a Christian any longer; but I still feel besmirched and declare war on YOU!!! P.S. No, I don't.

Stupid animal fans. Cheering for violence. Just as bad as those cheering on the rioting anti cartoonists. I hate fighting in hockey. It ruins the sport, and has forever. Every time I see a hockey fight start I roll my eyes.

Read that line again. I stated monetarily wise. Example: If JE cost $30 million to make, and it only earned $20 million; I seriously doubt businesses like BIO and MS would consider it a FINANCIAL SUCCESS. It is, afterall,,a completely different issue than someone working in their garage.

"but I've seen crappy horses in Sacred" Hey, Sacred horses were awesomes! The game died a painful detah for me; but horses were kewl. In fact Sacred was one of the main reasons I was looking forward to NWN2's version of horses...

"Troika said this was entirely their decision. I think either Cain or Leonard did so in either the Codex forums or in some interview." Oh. Hmm.. I swear I heard differently; but I trust you. If so, that takes a completely different spin on that mix up. btw, Unlike others, I actually liked Arcanum's turn based combat. "@Volourn, so Bio makes the games they like. ...And?" And what? You stated, or implied because BIO makes game that appeal to a wide audience that somehow they don't like the games they make.. they do it just for money. That's false. Afterall, JE was a game they had wnated to do since they were originally formed. They obviously liked/like NWN or else I doubt they still be working on this far after its release. They jumped at the oppurtunity to make BG when BIS reccommened them chnage their Battle Infinity to a D&D game. You can aslo tell BIO enjoyed making their games more than Troika because Troika spent an awful lot of time whining about the publishers while even when it was apparant that BIo disagreed with the publisher on an issue they didn't continually whine about it. "The fine line between publisher wanting some feature and publisher forcing some feature?" Yes, but anyways, this line of reasoning of mine was mistaken if what RP pointed out is correct. And, I have no reason not to believe him on this issue.

"Troika wanted to make games they liked." False. BIO makes games they like. Unless you are saying Troika LIKED the real time combat in Arcanum... which they claim was forced on them.... LOL

Troika made hardcore games with a soul? HAHAHAHAH! 1. I liked Arcanum. A lot. But, this is one of very few games that actually tries to combine to different combat modes equally. Not exactly hardcore is it? And, dont' blame the publisher. Troika is the dveloper. They get blame for all aspects of the game that they agree to. Overall, though, Arcanum was a fun game for me in spite of its many faults. 2. TOEE. The game wa sboring. It did one thing right - the combat system. Pretty much everything sucked, blowed, or was good but buggy as heck (itemc reation here). This game had no *soul* though. Even the role-playing it had lacked purpose or menaing. The characters were a bore. 3. Now we get to V:BL. I like this game; but I really want to LOVE it. Sadly, Troika ruins this. This game had some of the best quests, characters, role-playing, music, sound,a nd yes SOUl I have ever seen... yet.. it doens't even make my top 10 (close; but no cigar).. Why? 'Cause the game isn't made for hardcore role-players.. The combat is not just real time; it's absolutely horrid real time. This combat makes KOTOR combat seem challenging, and while KOTOR cdombat is lacking it can be fun... V:BL combat simply isn't fun. It's simply boring (except for a few well done combats). Garbage like that along with the bugs and slowdowns hurts this games epsicially the silly argument that Troika's true goal was to make hardcore RPGs. And, it's not like they weren't given a chance. They had two licensed products including a D&D one (for their seocnd game just like BIO had with theirs) yet still their games didn't hit home espicially the D&D game. It says a lot whenh someone like me who actually likes 2 of their 3 games cna say such evil stuff about them. I like their games; but I don't mourn their passing... yet, I'd likely have bought their next game because even with its faults; BL was a worthy purchase for me. The funny thing is unlike other people, I have nothing but good epxerience with the Troika folks on line. They're always curteous or at worst begign even when repsonding to Mean Things I Say tm. Go figure.

"Coming from the guy that, in previous discussions would accuse people of lying just because they used hyperbole." "i think one should first ask of volo to determine what he means by financial success, only then can this be argued, if financial success in the volo dictionary means something that sold as well as the developers expected, then who knows, that might work out to be true" Well.. there are several ways to look at what 'finanical success' means. Let's look at the ways: 1. The game made a profit. (the most obvious way) 2. The game achieved the financial/sales goal of the publisher and/or dveloper. (ie. A game needs 500k to break even, 600k sales means it made a profit, a million sales is what the goal was so in this essence as far as the publisher is concerned a million copies is what would be acceptable). 3. A set copy sale - not caring about actual profit.. Most used for those not expecting a large profit margin ( ie. new developers, new game series, etc.). To me, hwoever, the only 'financial success' moniker that matters is whether or not the companies making it felt that monetarily wise; the game was worth making. Seems to me that both BIO, and MS seemed satisifed with the game's finanical success. I should also note, once again, that I predicted that JE would sell 500k - 1mil copies. I told the slobbering BIO fanboys (the one who thinks the BIO name = Instant Seller) that JE was gonna be no KOTOR or NWN or BG for OBVIOUS reasons. If you cna't figure out that reason, that's not my problem.. or BIO or MS's problem either. If your expectation for JE's financial success was 2mil+ copies sold like KOTOR did on multiple platforms; that's your own illogical fault. "gaider noted that even mediocre console sellers gots 1 mil units sold. we assume that he were being hyperbolic, but what he were talking 'bout weren't blockbusters but rather why developers feels the lure of doing console games. is unfair of Gromnir to use gaider words against him when it ain't so convenient to bio?" Yeah, he was talking console yet he mentioned DA by name yet not JE even though JE was the one closest to release at the time. "which is why we ask folks from ea and folks from obsidian and folks from elsewhwere" Neither EA or Obsidian has all the facts. They have more insider knowledge than we do; but nowhere near as much as BIO or MS does when it comes to JE. But, once again, if someone is gonna accuse BIO and MS of lying; I'd like some proof please. That's all. As for these mysterious 'elsewheres' meh. "THEY was in position that bioware is in now." No, they weren't. Not even close. BIS' and BIO's situations aren't even close to each other. To comapre the two is even silly on so many levels.

Besides, any country that has their leaders deny the existence of a factual, provable event, belives in the wiping out of an entire country (then 'backing down' and simply saying it should be moved lol) amongst other silly things; I count this name change as one of their most innocent affronts. LOL Just like the people whining about the existence of Freedom Fries in the States - isn't there more pressing matters to complain about that country? LOLLIPOP P.S. I still call 'em French Fries even if the French are scum. P.S.S. I'm 95% French so muahahah!!

I agree. But spinning is not lying. It's called using facts in such a way to make a certain point - you can use facts to spin things your way - positively or negatively. Neither is lying. FACT: JE sold 500k+ copies in about 6 months. POSITIVE SPIN: That's what BIO was expecting and hence it wa ssuccessful. NEGATIVE SPIN: Game that don't sell millions of copies are automatica failures. Neither is a lie; but are spins.

Never said that; but I'd rather have proof that said company is lying. Remember, there's a difference between positive spin and lying. Just like there's a difference between negative spin, and lying as well. Figur eout what these terms mean then return.

No.

This sucks... but, I've already moved on. Rideable horsies was one of the 3 new features that I was most looking forward to. Again, it sucks, but I'll survive.

BIO's word > Grom's word on this issue. Why? Because they have *all* the facts. They know how much the game sold, how much it cost to make, advertise, and publish. They know how many copies were sold at full value or those sold at a discount (for the record, JE is still be solid at $50 or so at my EB; a cut off of only $10 from its original price.), how much time eahc of their 200+ employees spent on the project (as a point of reference, Mr. Dave Gaider,a Senior Writer/Designer didn't work on the project at all henc ehis name wans't even in the credits). Until you (or anyone else) can share all this information; I'll take the word of those who *know* the facts - all of them - first. Espicially since you took Gaider's word out of context. When he spoke of million+ copies he was talking about blockbuster games... Guess what? No one claimed that JE was a blockbuster hit. You don't need a blockbuster hit for a title be successful. Be it a game, movie, or elsewhere. A good exmaple of this is movie theatres. A 'blockbuster' is usually set at $100 million+ however, most horror movies are considered SUCCESSFUL if they make $40-$60 million dollars. So. BIO wins unless you can prove they are lying. P.S. R00fles about France!!

"They have a good reason imo" No, they don't.

"I just want the sweet pastries. I have nothing to do with the name," homemaker Zohreh Masoumi told the sales clerk taking her order." Intelligence in the middle of a wave of stupidity. P.S. I wonder how a man as important as the prophet Muhammed would take this kind of juvenile 'act of difiance? Seems to me that its using his name in vain and besmirching the Big M.

Yeah.. Africans are the only ones ever forced to be slaves...

The Vietanemese should violently protest your bigotry!!!

"What about Christians bombing abortion clinics?" Yeah. You mena the ones who bomb abortion clinics, ar ehunted down, and then tried, and if there's enough evdience thrown in prison? Oh, THOSE Christians. As you can tell, there's no doubt that there's not any shortage of Christian extremists in NA... however, they're not accepted nor are they allowed to go violent without punishment. The Arab governements as well as many more peaceful Muslims seem to give the 'ol thumbs up to the violent guys. It's like: "I *know* suicide bombs are wrong; but..... not as wrong as publishing cartoons." LOL Falwell might be an extemists; but as long as his extremism sticks to words; he can go crazy all he wants... He's not hurting anyone.

Another fun baseball game is that one.

Eldar wins. "I appreciate freedom of speech, but if it will offend somebody else, then I won't say something just because it is my freedom." I simply don't beleive you. i bet you've said, posted, or supported something that offended another. Freedom is the right to offend, the right to be offended, and the right to do so without fear of being murdered. One of the big anti cartoon warnings was that these cartoons would increase a hatre dof Muslims. Guess what? That didn't happen. In fact, any new anti Muslim feelings are strictly due to Muslims over reacting in violent ways in a holier than though egotistical way. Yet the funny thing is I don't see any mass violence against Muslims since.. Go figure. Also.. Hypocriticlaly, Muslims say NOTHING when Jesus is blasphemed despite (IIRC) him also being an important figure (a prohet I think as well). Go figure.