Volourn

"I stand corrected. Though personally I would rather add to the OC than try to create something from scratch - it seems less daunting? I guess the modders are braver souls than I." Well, I guess it's a matter of perspective actually (despite my 'rant' above). "Currently running through the OC (chapter 2) and adding on would be a big mistake. Streamlining/editing/removing content is more like it." I could see me doing both. For starters, I'd remove the teleport stone, respawning, and go with the actual NWN default death rules and not the OC rules. I'd add the ability to have 3 npcs in the group as well.

"Credit where credit is due. I am the first one to bitch and complain about the combat system in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic series, but I have to congratulate Obsidian for dramatically improving the options/challenges in the sequel" Both KOTOR game shad crappy combat. They both were dumbed down wannabe NWN combat. Even the addittion of 'jedi styles' in KOTOR2 ended up being flatlined. "i definitely preferred it to the boring buttonmash that was the combat in jade empire" JE > KOTOR in every way espicially and including combat. As for 'button smashing'... buttons mashing in JE gets you killed quick...but, hey, I'd rather 'button smash' then watch the computer fight for me, and win easy fights. Like I said, dumbed down NWN combat.

"In NWN, the toolset enabled them to create their own adventures from scratch, but I gather it was difficult to modify the OC (there was nothing like WeiDU to allow lots of mods to work together)" Um... actually, it was easy to mod the OC. It was as easy to mod/edit as any NWN module. And, mods were added to it included the improved AI, making combat more challenging, extended henchmen help, and what not. It just seems like a waste of tiem to mod the OC when inspiring modders can just flat out create their own stuff. But, it had nothing to do with engine/toolset limitations - just modder choice. Why would you as SteveThaiBinh the Inspiring Modder bother to mod someone else's work when you can actually work on SteveThaiBinh's Mod?!?! Like i said above, however, the OC was modded.

"again it is almost exactly like the module" Except the module itself explicitly tells DMs to tailer said module to their audience/players. I remmeber this because I bugged Troika quite a bit about stuff like this pre release. L0L And, I was laughed off with 'Don't worry, we added soem cool stuff!" "Now you could argue they should have patched/fixed it anyway." Nah. I don't blame Troika for that. Atari was the publisher so that's their call. From Atari's point of view the benefits of a patch just wasn't worth it cost wise. What's sad is that as Grom pointed out, Atari was EXCITED about TOEE's potential - so much so they were pumped up for sequels/expansions. Troika let Atari down. "Tell me Volo...in what other industry could even one out of 100 products failing for people it was promised to work be acceptable? That's a fiasco. And you're willing to concede that 1 out of 20 might have failed? That's a disaster. Thanks for making my point. So next time you want to flame people with personal insults, you might want to do a little simple math before you post. Or do you like undercutting everything you say?" Wrong. i was asking about your numbers. You say 'many' but that means nothing. Again, define 'many'. And, don't emabrass yourself, again. Thanks. Nor did I 'persoanlly flame' you.

Fun. P.S. The voice acting for Aribeth was plaina nd simply awesome. Undisputable.

"Yes Volo, but MEPC already has "fiasco" written on it to many gamers." Define 'many'? Less than 1%? 2%? 5%? ME is a hit, and many gamers played it and enjoyed just fine. R00fles! You, and a handful of malcontents don't constitute all that 'many'. L0L Just like I cna be honest and say even though I loathed MW, most gamers who played it enjoyed it just fine. My opinion means crap on it.

"But yes, Bio was better as an independent developer, I fear." Youf ear this; but I doubt we know this yet since they haven't really made a game with EA outside of finishing up ME if I remember the timeline correctly... "Troika delivered what they said they would a true representation of a classic pnp game." Nah, not really. The only 'promise' they really delievered on with TOEE was being the closest to pnp DnD rules. Outside of that, not so much. They forgot the cardinal rule of all pnp pre amde campaigns like TOEE - ot's up to the DM aka Troika to 'fill in the blanks' and make the campaign worthwhile. NOBODY likes TOEE as written. People's fond memories of the pnp module are largely linked to how the campaign was ran by the DM, and what was added or ignored. "Atari not extending the release date when the game was still a buggy mess" They did give Troika an extension. They would ahve had to extend it indefinitely waiting for a 'perfect' version which likely would have been to expensive, and give no hope of getting a return of their investment. "ToEE suffered an extremely steep learning curve. Where the heck were you supposed to go at level 1? I gotta blame the developers on that one. " Nah. Talk to a couple of people in town (fi you can get past the subpar dialogue) woudl elt you where you ened to go. It's not like TOEE had lots of places you *could* go. "Combat was better in TOEE" Nope. Combat systemw as. Combat wa snot. "Oh look, another bugbear trying to trip my mage and suffers 3 AOOs!" R00fles! "Dont know if you caught this battle, but probably my favoite combat encounter of any game I have played" That battle was actually fun!

"i guess you could either welcome it or act like some little corporate weenie's lapdog." Actually, I have another option - don't buy products from companies I don't like and don't buy products I have no interest in. It tends to work for the most part. But, yeah, I do fail at some of the gamer obligiation. That's because I am a gamer, and by definition all gamers are selfish, greedy, all about me me me, act like immature brats, and are the most evil human beings on the planet.

1. Gamers have the obligation to pay $200 if they actually expect the rights listed above. 2. Gamers have the obligation to act like mature adults (possible exceptions apply for thsoe whoa rne't actually adults). 3. Gamers have the obligation to move on from games they dislike and don't harp on x game's 'failures' for years on end. 4. Gamers have the obligation to criticize in a civil manner, and stop acting like cavemen. 5. Gamers have the obligation to understand that if you attack a developer or publisher that they should ahev the right to attack you right back. 6. Gamers have the obligation to check their greed, selfishness, and 'me me me ness' to an actual reasonable level. ie. Don't pay $50 for a game, and expect to get the same level of service that you'd get buying that $25,000 vehicle. 7. Gamers have the obligation not to steal games whether the like the game or not. 8. Gamers have the obligation not to blame the publisher, and develoepr for fellow gamers' need to steal soemthing they don't need. 9. Gamers have the obligation to realize that games are not neccessities, and therefore not everybody is required to have them. 10. Gamers have the obligation to STFU.

"From a pure combat perspective, there's really no comparison, and anyone claiming that the responsiveness or actual aiming mechanics are better in Jade Empire or Oblivion or Mass Effect or Bloodlines than Virtua Fighter or Ninja Gaiden or Half-Life or whatever pretty much has some sort of agenda or has extremely limited experience in gaming outside RPGs when in comes to said combat" All this, and the rest of your spam tells me nothing other than your opinion. Perhaps people don't look for the same things you do in their combat. To me, JE and ME were a good mix of action and rpg hence why it's an Action RPG. The combat in both work for me just fine as theyw ere fun, reasonably challengeing, and cool. I have played my share of full fledge action games. They are fun; but they don't really require any thinking. I didn't play NG (the new modern one); but it looks like any bland action game. The old NG was fun when it was out. Again, the cool thing was that JE (and ME) weren't competing with NG. NG is an Action game. JE is an Action RPG. HUGE difference.

"Since when does the alignement wheel affect your intimidate/charm skills? I didn't see that mentioned anywhere..." Since the was created. Read the manual. Check out your skill screen. Pay attention!

"Also, the dialogue choices were not changed by your alignement wheel, they were changed by your Intimidate or Charm skill." Thanks for allowing me to win this 'debate' easily. You just confirmed what i said. The 'alignment wheel' greatly effected your ability to increase your intimidate or charm skills which means the alignment wheel does have an effect on gameplay. You lose.

"Well, the "thousands of casualties and tens of thousands of refugees" are from a paper from the US Library of Congress, not my invention (I think I posted the link previously in this thread, or was that at WW? Thats possible). Blame them if they are fiddling with the numbers. Mind you, this was in 1991 when the Georgians wanted to wipe out any sense of "Ossetian" cultural integrity." I was referring to the most recent fighting. Not since the whole dispute started. "There is only 1 difference some countries accepted the independence of Kosovo (46) but now dont accept the independence of South Ossetia and Abjazia" That's because those countries know there are differences between the two different situations. And, it's far from the only difference between the two.

I'm not going into that as this is about the Russia/Georgia situation while the Kosovo situation is old news (well, like most things political, it's not 100% settled); but the point is every situation is different. Trying to lump such dynamic things into the same thing does a huge disservice to the people, groups, and countries involved. Georgia, and Kosovo are two different situations with their own history, background, people, etc. That alone is enough to not group them togetehr even if they makes it easier to make snap judgements. ie. Iraq = Vietnam. I shoudl also say that I don't think Georgia is innocent but people keep claiming they aattacked Russia and they did no such thing. And, the accusations if ethnic cleansing is ridiculous considering the flat out lies Russia has told - supposed 5k dead when it ended up being 100s (not saying 100s dead is a good thing); but that's not ethnic cleansing. Not by a long shot.

"There may be differences" So, you agree with me? They aren't the same situation. That's all I needed. So, the question remains if the two situations are different why are some - espicially the people who likely dissaproved of the West's handling Kosovo - expect the two situiations to be handled in the exact same way even if they do have similarities. They have differences hence they should be treated differently.

"well as biowarian design philosophy predicated on making mostest people happy." Their philososphy has worked well for them thus far. "Also, if you're going to have an alignment wheel, FFS please make it have at least some sort of use. Mass Effect's Paragon and Renegade alignment wheel was utterly useless and never brought ANYTHING to the game other than a small achivement on the 360." Nah. ME's 'alignemnt wheel' was to show the player where theyw ere. They also gave gameplay/dialogue/story differences too consdering it effected your character's dialogue choices which is a HUGE part of the game. So, in essence, you played a different ME than me if your version they brought NOTHING to the game otehr than small achievements. R00fles!

They don't 'have' to do anything. Games get postponed all the time. L0L On top of this, Bethesda has already shown a demo, and have allowed people to play it.

HAHA! Even Russia's Asian Allies snumb their war crimes of murdering innocent Georgians, and conquering another country and keeping their soldiers there. "The english always were very funny

"BG2 is their best and most successful ever." You cna argue about which is the 'best'; but the 'most successful' is not really a matter of opinion. Sorry, but I didn't make up the 'NWN is their most successful game' mantra. That was BIO that did. I'd think they know what game of theirs is most successful.

Wrong. It's their best gam,e. And, their most successful to date. R00fles!

"Yes, they haven't been repeating, after KOTOR they've been getting progressively worse. Sorry, couldn't resist." Getting better. KOTOR is their worst game that I played. "The amnesia thing is also something" No amnesia in ME, or JE. Or any NWN games. Only BIO game to have any form of amnesia was KOTOR.

It means absolutely nothing.

"you've played lots of action games then I presume" Yes. Some good ones. Some bad ones. *shrug* Thankfully, JE isn't an action game. It's an Action RPG. "Out of NWN1, ToEE and PS:T only latter one had passable radial menus, basically because there was only one of them" NWN's radial menu was aweosme. As was PST's for the most part. TOEE's was subpar but that's mainly because if you click too many times it could eventually lead to the radial menu section youa r eopening to go right off the screen. "lol" L0L

Doesn't everybody?

"only thing JE had over e.g KotOR's combat was the inclusion of dodging. It's still the least involved of all combat systems in Aurora-based rpgs." JE combat > KOTOR combat. No contest. I found JE's combat fun, challenging (not hard), cool, and all around sueprior to KOTOR 9that's not ahrd to do, lol). It's also better than most action games. Then bagain, JE was no 'simple' action game. It's an Action RPG.