Lord_Mord

I think part of the problem with Pillars mages is, that Obsidian is kind of unsure what the goal here is. Its no secret that Josh does not like the Vancian system, but on the other hand wants to provide one, just because a lot of people want it. In my opinion the outcome is already a bit half baked and while reading the stuff about enforcement I get the impression that it wont get better. They should finally decide wether they want it or not. A half assed vancian system is worth nothing. My personal solution would be the most hardcore one. Programmers would hate it. Every class would have it's own system and the goal is to make them as distinct as possible while keeping them balanced. That means: If mages are vancian, they are 100% vancian. No compromises. In my game mages for example would work like BG mages. Ciphers, monks and priests could stay the same. Druids could work something like current Pillars mages with per encounter spells and enforcement. Fighters would have cooldowns, while Paladins would have per encounter ablities and so on and so on. Classes would not share spells. If for example you have more than one class that could summon, summons would work totally different for those two classes. (The chanter makes combat-only chants that are more powerful but get destroyed after the fight, while that mage can create weak minions that actually come to life until they die, the druid calls creatures from the forest that stay as long as the druid upkeeps the spell...) That system would be complex as hell, the more complex, the more I would love it. One would have to find ways to balance that, like an underlying mana-like logic and conversion tables to keep track of the value and cost of all abilites.

It's hard to argue with what you said. OK, a mana system is interesting, too. Now I'm even interested in playing a game that uses such a system to it's full extend. In fact I agree with you in every point but the one I cited above. A core system does not necessarily have to be as simple as possible it has to be designed as simple as possible. It all depends on what you are achieving. If for example your goal is to create a Vancian system, well then that is the system of your choice. You don't choose it the same way you would choose your graphics engine, you choose it just because you want to. If you wanted to create a card game, you wouldn't say: I want it to be like poker, because poker is simple. You might say something like: I want to create the most complex card game in history and it should be something like bridge, just because I like bridge and my players like it too. Now if you've chosen your system you come to the hard part: How can I get this complex bitch of a system under control? Now your math comes in. You want to design your system in a way that is easily understandable for your players and easily balancable for your programmers. That is hard work but you shouldn't change your design goals to make it easier for you.

OK, originally I just wanted to troll a bit, but this has gone further than intended so I feel the need to give a serious answer. Personally I made the experience that using the KISS rule usually leads to dumb outcomes, that's why it is kind of a red rag to me. I dont know if that's how this rule is meant or if people just use it for a good excuse not to think. I'm a web developer, so I knoow what I'm talking about. The people that are too lazy / too dumb to write clean and simple code are usually the same ones that justify lazy decisions with what they call "simplicity". For me Diablo looks like a good example of how close simplicity and stupidity are too another (I played Diablo 1+2 very often, but never finished one of them). It's dead simple, easy to learn, has a very addictive gameplay, but sooner or later the point comes when you ask yourself: What the hell am I doing here? It's like the pumped up version of some internet game. Of course a mana system would simplify things. But the question is: Why do you want that? Just because KISS? Well, maybe you should consider switching back to Pong. You won't get more KISS ever again. I for one want above all things that the magic system feels like magic. Magic isn't just pumping energy into something and getting damage in return. This is no space shooter. Magic should have it's own mysterious rules and they should be complicated. That's why I like the Vancian System. That's why I like BG. Of course, it's not balanced. Who cares? At least I never get the feeling that all that magic does is converting energy into certain damage types. In my opinion Pillars is already leaning to much into that direction. It's OK for the cipher or monk, but the other casting classes should be more clearly set apart. I fear that the enforcement system will only make it worse. Excuse my terrible english, I'm in a hurry. I should be working already.

At least complexity is interesting. Just compare Baldurs Gate to Diablo.

Also they are far more stupid.

No, but it necessarily means that a cheap cliche is involved.

Notice that everytime I read a manga/anime term outside a manga/anime context, I rape a Pokemon. Seriously: Where do you people suddenly come from? What has PoE to do with Anime? There is enough Anime outthere these days. Please leave the oldschool-fantasy-retro-stuff to the oldschool-fantasy-retro-stuff people. I lived throught this once when I was a teenager. I saw a whole genre being buried under piles of fluffy monsters, over-the-top-high-fantasy-gear and horny gothic teenager girls in mini skirts. I don't think I can handle it a second time.

What Pizzashark said.

No good ending possible for the game. Whatever you do, you can just totally screw up things in different ways.

Are you crazy? I use that. Why do you want to remove stuff, that you dont need?

Recently this small indie game came up. Maybe it fits your needs?

I see no problem there. Stealth missions that would require that amount of stealthyness wouldn't be for the whole group. Sneaking pass the guards into a fortress, when your whole group is needed on the inside would be easy enough that it is still possible with some armour. Sneaking into a building to steal a diamond would just require your rogue, which of course had to wear light armour. Either you build him/her in a way that this is possible or you micromanage that single character, which is no great amount of work. If you're still not OK with that ... maybe you should play a barbarian group and just smash some heads to get your diamond.

The way you put it reminds me of game of thrones. Game of thrones characters are the perfect combination of fanboy-friendlyness and believable characters that can be real **** at times and deal with all kinds of real problems, instead of "my friends soul is captured inside a squirrel. Now my world stands upside down". Not that I wish them to blindly copy GoT. Just an association.

I want to see the enemy run into all directions, the momet they notice what's happening. That would be fun.

Purple cloaked magician, Aedyran woodelf (very annoying guy): enchanted sword, boots of complaint

I'm totally fine with the idea of a couple of idiots people from the younger, more self-confident and fun orientated generation donating just for ingame recognition, as long as it makes the BIB possible. Edit: Not that I didn't like Boeroers idea. On the contrary. I think it's very funny.

For example if he uses a foreign word or fold expression the wrong way. You might not notice if you're not familiar with what he said, but it is measurable wrong. Sometimes i get the impression that the translators themselves are not familiar with it. More examples (Pillars related ones, if I can find something good) later, I dont have time at the moment.

Cyclopedia, Item Descriptions, Magnifying glass descriptions. That kind of stuff. Everything that gives the game flavor. No wonder. I think fixing the whole thing is impossible for modders. That is why I started this thread. It should be done right in the first place. PoE2 is a new start. We should demand that this time translation is done by professionals.

True, but I noticed that people tend to ignore that a bad sentence is just plain bad. I'm not talking about feelings here. A sentence can for example: - Not be appropriate for the person who speaks it. If you have an educated guy like Aloth and he suddenly sounds not that educated anymore, there's something wrong. Even if not all people will notice. - Sound counterintuitive (Not the way you use language natively). Again, people may not notice. But that's just because they are not sensitive enough. - Have a wrong rythm. I dont know how to put it. I'm no professional so I dont know the correct words, especially in english. Do you know that when sentences have a certain rythm in their original language and loose that in translation. You can avoid that by finding a new rythm fitting to the language you are translating in. I hope I managed to make myself clear. - Sound translated in general. Every language has it's little particularities. You know some language uses a lot of nouns, another language doesn't. The way you separate sentences. If they are comma separated or split into several sentences. That can vary between languages. And so on and so on, as Zizek would say. These are measurable things and have nothing to do with the beholder, no matter how many eyes it has. I often argue with people that claim that a certain translation is OK in their eyes. They even defend it and claim that it is good and all comes down to taste. That's mostly not true.

My opinion: - Utility spells: Yes, tons of them! - Prebuffs: A few. What's the problem if the first thing my mage does after getting up in the morning is casting iron skin? Less surprises while shaving. - Summons: Why not? They are fun. Maybe they are a bit weaker then the combat only ones. Maybe they are incredibly weak. I still could use them for scouting, trap detection or to lure enemies away. I have nothing agains the chanter class. He can call ghosts and spirits from elsewhere. Im fine with that. But summoning skeletons is a wizard thing. And skeletons last for a long time.

You are right with almost everything but not regarding that point. It is the same with design: The question is not, if you like it. The question is: Does it fulfill it's purpose. If there are people that do not notice that it doesn't, that does not mean it does. It just means that those people are not able to judge it.

She played with the mod for a while now. She said that everything regarding stats, spells and game mechanics is very understandable now. She would compare the quality of the German mod with that of the Russian translation. But the dialogue and lore stuff is still better in Russian. As far as I know she switched completely to Russian now.

True. But if everybody would be satisfied with that solution, that would mean less high quality content in your language (wherever you are from). The reality these days is: Most of the content comes from America. If you are educated you can play games / watch TV in english and if you care for the game/film, you will do so. If you are not, you'll have to live with translations that become worse and worse, so your own use of language becomes worse and worse. You'll not even notice.

If I had thought about it, I would have realized. But during gameplay I tend to think a bit more abstract. Like: "I will torture this mother****er over a period of time by setting him on fire. That will teach him better than a simple explosion."

Where do I get Raiment of Wael's Eyes? Never saw it before. Yes, the texture is really ****ed up now.