Reent

come on, cut them some slack, its only been 3 month for this thread - at least we have the "its in the database" post - thats more than i can say for one of my other threads (3 month too)... and 3 month is nothing, try 14 month and still nothing more than "looking into it" (okay, i had to bump that one - after 11 month...) i wanted to play solo monk, however my build would be high int monk spamming torments reach, as long as this bug isnt "oh, it was a bug but now we consider it a feature" (WTF) i wont play monk... (and the bug with the soulbound armor needs a fix before i play too) i managed to finish 1 playthrough since wm1/2 release, the bugs take the fun out of the game... looks like i will wait a few years after every obsidian release before buying (if at all, the hype is high for a release, not for a final patch), this is simply ridiculous.

You are wrong - and i posted enough screenshots that show that you are wrong. You say: the damage the spell does is determined the moment the spell hits (since thats when the math is done) - i posted screenshots where i changed the DR while the DoT was active, the damage changed=wrong assumption that the damage is determined at the start. You are saying: a hit will do 74.4 damage over 9.3 secs and a graze does 46.2 damage over 4.6 secs... and this total amount is reduced by DR and after that each tick is determined... that would mean a graze would deal less damage per tick (4.5 DR is about 10% damage reduction for 46.2 damage and about 6% of 74.4 damage)... however i posted a screen where a crit and a graze dealt the same damage against a target with DR... So, every single point you made is wrong (okay, rounding is a part of the game - thats a true part) - gimme an example where your statement is proven right, i posted some screens that proved you are wrong... just writing "but i am right" does't do anything. Let me just math the example for a crit, 102.5 damage... 16 DR... 5.633333 damage ticks... 102,5-16=86,5 total damage, 86,5/5,6333=15,3 damage each tick with 9,7 damage last tick... with DR/4 each tick... its 102,5/5,6333-4=18,195-4=14.195 damage each tick... with 7,5 damage last tick... sounds familiar? Round a bit and the numbers are the ones given in the example. i wont reply anymore (at least until one post shows (with examples) that i am wrong, i know that i can be wrong... but every test i did proved the things i read here... wrong): Since i was called a "less than nice gamer" i will go the extra mile. Gimme examples examples examples, dont just write write write - i posted screens that proved you wrong, i just showed you math that proved it again, so... examples or: Leg Dich niemals mit einem Idioten an. Zuerst holt er Dich auf Sein Niveau runter und dann schlägt er Dich mit Seiner jahrelangen Erfahrung.(that one is attributed to the fact that you dont even try to understand what i post - you say: (no, those are no direct quotes) "the damage is determined at the start" - my answer? "the math is done every 3 secs" your answer? "i thought it was clear that the damage is dealt every 3 secs"... PLEASE read a bit more before you post)

So you understand what i wanted: no, the total amount is not reduced by DR, the individual ticks are.

wrong. The total amount of Damage is split into ticks, after that the tick is applied every 3 secs and the math (at least the DR reduction - i think the might buffs would change the damage too, but i really dont care...) is done every 3 secs this time for a "total amount of damage" spell... this time with a monk and iron wheel...

You have typicall Dot effect ( not periodical, IIRC dragon thrashed dragon wailed is periodical) which does pierce/fire etc damage. You deal i.e 43,3 pierce over dmg 10 sec like Your desc. says. Remember it's a STANDARD DoT-base ticks 3 sec. Enemey has a 12 pierce DR. calc: numbers of ticks: 10 sec+3 sec/3 (rounded down)=You will have 4 ticks 43.3/4=10,825->10 than You will have only ONE DR substracted 10-12*0,25=7 every tick will have the same value 7 dmg 4 ticks *7 dmg= 28 overall dmg It's like one overall attack for DoT effects and than DR, so yes every tick have the same value. For DoT such as Ectopsychic Echo that are reduced by DR every time they hit, they have severals seperate attacks( multiplie attacks,acc,DR)- and values should be diffrent. and that's the diffrence check debug calc old thread https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78410-proper-debugger-breakpoints-dot-hot-tests/?do=findComment&comment=1693196 hmmm dragon thrashed was changed - the description is only damage per 3 secs, not the "over X secs" anymore. Okay, i forgot to create a screen with the "13 13" before casting the +4 DR - however it was "13 13", same dot, but with 4 DR more - "12 12"... so no, its not applied "once", each and every damage tick is done individually... and the difference between my "every tick" and your "once (but for every tick)" is nothing - as long as DR and multipliers dont change... so really, what do you want? Sure, you dont have to roll acc again... but a dot doesnt need to roll acc more than once. Dragon Thrashed is a DoT... you apply it once and it deals damage until the time is over... thats the purest form of a dot.

You're wrong, don't mislead between normall DoT and DoT-Periodical dmg such as Ectopsychic Echo. Normally DoT are reduced only once, Ectopsychic Echo is reduced every time, depends on what kind of skill is used. You are saying: normal dots (lets say dragon thrashed dragon wailed) are reduced only once... so some questions: what do you mean? Only the first damage tick uses DR? The full damage the DoT would deal is reduced by the DR? Since its not clear for me what you mean i will simply use math to show that you are wrong in either case: If only one damage tick would use the DR one damage tick would deal a different amount of damage, thats not the case (ok, the last tick can differ - depending on the duration it can be a lowered damage tick) If the DR would count against the full damage the DoT would deal the amount each tick deals would differ if you crit or graze (higher amount of total damage, so the DR would be less relevant) Hey, thats not the case too! That one shows that the DoT deals damage depending on the targets DR... i could show more ticks to show that its not just one tick where the DR matters. One crit one graze - both same damage per tick. So the duration has nothing to do with the damage each tick deals - and that means the DR isnt substracted from the total amount. So what do you want? Saying "you are wrong" come on, a bit more input please. Those 2 screenshots show that the DR reduces each and every tick - not the total amount and not just one tick.

hmmm... i dont see why you wouldnt be able to do bounties O_o sure, the dweller one is... hard... but sly? if you use a stag helmet they have no CC that should stop you for long, so if you engage them from south-east direction you can use the terrain and tank only one enemy, you can use one figurine so the monk doesnt push you out of the bottleneck... after that shoot the casters dead while tanking - use one figurine when you are low and run away - they dont follow you if you do it right. the drake bounty isnt that hard, just kill them in parts - first the drakes... it should be easy if you engage them and run away right after (ranged weapon for better engage range), the drakes are faster so they follow further than the xaurips dweller and ogres - sorry, i dont play paladins solo so i dont know how to do these...

Weapon enchantments stack with everything - that is not a bug but a feature.

hmmm, i dont know the threshholds, however i tested it right now with a chanter (you get many many hit effects in... so easy to see if it proggs) and the enemy had to be "almost dead" for it to trigger... so doesnt look like a simple changed % bug that triggered your 75% bloody slaughter

I am not that calculative for my runs... i dont need numbers to be accurate... however... its not that i dont want everything fixed, its that i don't trust the devs sad but true... the thing that made my first solo run hell was a problem about the engagement rules with charm/domination, i reported the problem... it was ignored despite beeing a major problem - the whole engagement system is responsible for more time lost (either because i die in my ToI or have to let the enemy heal) than all bugs combined i encountered So... because the thread got ignored i was disappointed... why go through the trouble of reporting if they simply ignore it? I dont want my chanter to get stuck because i use a rogue ability with an item (tested once, item never used again... who knows if it would bug again? IDC) - i dont want items to not loose a charge, but... thats all so minor compared to the engagement system destroying my runs - why the **** do i have to tank enemies to summon stuff? The enemy is chasing me, i get 3 stacks, start the summon, the enemy sadly choose to stop chasing me right as i started chanting... the phantom is summoned... but not fast enough, the phantom is right next to the enemy but is desummoned instantly because the engagement system rules "fight ends"... you know? Not funny... and thats just one example, i have quite some more examples where it fails spectacular... after i revived the unanswered 11 month old thread, made it not only about engagement ends if... together with charm but engagement rules as a problem itself... the answer i got made me think "that is not even close to the problem, did he even read my post at all?"... i wrote some more and got the very satisfying answer As much as i like pillars... i have encountered more bugs in PoE than i have encountered in all other games i played - combined - maybe you can understand that the "we are looking into the issue" with 2 month of nothing else that at best it gets fixed and "works"... at worst it gets... even worse... i'd love to get a bit more... that answer is perfect if its something like "fire damage multiplier isnt applied to fire damage chant"... but with such a major problem? that answer simply makes me weep... at the moment the rules are: if you are no target of enemy aggro, you dont target or affect enemies (dots dealing damage doesnt count) the fight stops... what if the "solution" is only something like "as long as enemies are within X the fight doesnt stop" and X is almost melee range? Because... if the rule would be "after a fight starts, the fight doesnt stop until no enemy is within range for any weapon" it would mean that the fight range would be above the aggro range, that would be wrong too - so no good solution I want to be able to run circles around the enemy with my chanter while he is singing them to death - thats possible against very slow enemies at the moment, with everyone else you are very likely to leave the aggro range and the dots dont do **** for the aggro and engagement system, so you can run after them and they can stay in range for new dots to apply... but the fight stops despite that... I LOVE THE SYSTEM! I report the things that would make my ToI runs more fun - if they fix that... i start reporting everything else too, but 1 year of ignoring the biggest problem for me... why go through the trouble of reporting something i dont really care about if they dont even fix something major?

I had it bug sometimes too, didnt happen everytime, not even that often... i cant even say in what form exactly (its been a while since i played with withdraw) (i think for me it was: no effect at all... could act, could cast, could get damage... but withdraw duration was shown...) There are simply too many bugs for me to report everything... thats why i only report the things that annoy me enough (if the things that annoy me enough are fixed (hey, one of them... i reported a year ago :D) maybe thats when i report things like: if you use an item and you get interrupted at the right moment, the item is used without loosing a charge) Thumbs up for everyone that reports bugs!

a save can help recreating the bug (if its a combination of items it should trigger again) - however there is something else, too:

He will be the "leader"... he will be the leader of the single target damage done ranking!

Just a screen isn't enough... http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/72439-must-read-how-to-report-an-issue/

hmmm, 6.5 damage was rounded to 6. 7.5 was rounded to 7, 6.6 to 7... and 1.5 DoT damage was rounded to 2, as was 2.5 DoT damage - so, i trust the rounding system... very much. its been a while since i even looked at damage numbers on the screen while playing, i can't say for sure that i remember it correctly since i played with "the informations i get are... wrong" but i think i remember that i missed some damage numbers on the screen (not for something as easy as posted here)

the DoT crits are worthless compared to other crits - the "lower damage most of the time" is about the damage the spell should do with a crit and the damage the spell does with a crit... not that a crit does less damage than a hit only rounding the total damage is what i would do too, however the game doesnt feel like it only rounds the total damage... and DoTs... wow... really! WoW! its amazing! Chanter's Come Come Soft Wind - with 2 might: -1,5 endurance every 3 secs... with 18 might: -2,5 endurance every 3 secs... you know what? Every tick deals exactly 2 damage, no difference between 2 and 18 might... rounding is not PoE strongest point... The strongest point is: no matter what is written, test it... it could say A and do B...

thats really easy! Create a 2 Might character and let him graze calisha - 0.X damage dealt is shown, 1 damage is dealt. And if its only the display... a chanter can retrigger his dots... per display only one dot is active - however thats only the display, every chanter dot is active and damages the enemy... Sure, thats not the damage display... but if one thing is wrong, why shouldnt there more wrong things?

crits are better than hits and hits are better than grazes for DoTs - the damage per tick isnt changed, the amount of ticks is changed - so you get a higher amount of damage out of a crit, however since the game works with intervalls of "3 secs" it doesnt give you that much more damage... most of the time it looked like: no difference between 3 and 5 secs, no difference between 6 and 8 secs - so if you have 9 secs duration and add 4.5 secs... you gain one damage tick, so with 9 secs you have 4 damage ticks, with 13.5 secs you have 5 damage ticks - thats a ridiculous bad design, however thats what it looked like to me... but i always only tested the chanter, so i could be wrong (i have an endless amount of DoTs, i never tested this specific case) and for your case... you are saying 4*13+19=71... but what about 4*13+4*(19/4) what if you round in that case? how about 4*13+4*5... thats 72, now lets say its 13,49 - makes 74 - how about rounding 74,4 down to 74, rounding 19/4 up to 5, rounding 13.9 down to 13 is possible too - who knows??? Really, the last damage points... a question of rounding...

It should count as a DoT and apply 1/4 DR - everything else: the "log" the "display" and the "reality" are 3 different things - SADLY!!!!!! - its really... disappointing...

DR against DoTs: DR is applied everytime you deal damage, so against the first, the 2nd the 3rd and so on tick, however its DR*0,25 for each tick - so 16 DR means 4 less damage each tick, so 6 ticks with 16 DR means 24 less damage, 77+24=101 damage DoTs are kinda... "the worst" for me... i played chanter over and over again and used DoTs the whole time... what i saw: (and you only get a little part of the "worst", for chanter DoTs the system is much worse) DoTs get rounded damagewise, so the "38.3 Corrode damage over 3.3 secs" would most likely be 2 damage ticks (one when you apply it, one after 3 secs, since DoTs apply every 3 secs), the damage is rounded to full damage numbers in 3 sec intervalls - DoT crits only last longer, the damage per tick isnt affected - however that leads to lower damage most of the time... (in your example: you deal 4 damage ticks witch 17 damage each, thats 68 damage, +4,5/4*4=72.5 means 1.9 damage is missing... however you still have 0.3 sec duration remaining... if you deal 1.9 damage... its 0.4 damage because of DR and minimum damage, however does minimum damage even apply for DoTs? I dont know - and does the game "show" it? Or is it rounded to zero?)

Hmmmm, it depends, there are ways to overpower enemies with either aoe damage and/or tankiness, making straight fights a real possibility (i prefer chanter with high damage AOE, if the talents would work for chants it would be a real possibility in almost all fights - maybe even without taking summons at all... and without kiting). For me its nice, but i am not above abusing my summons (before playing naked chanter i tried to make do without using summons as much as possible, however now i learned that abusing my summons with different tricks can speed up the run... like needing no rests to clear some maps instead of one rest every 1-3 fights while killing every group only 5-10 secs slower (some maps i even clear groups faster with the summon abuse then in a straight fight where i use all figurines to tank) but without risks) It can be a nice challenge (wizard) or it can be pretty abusive (if i play ranger you can be sure that no fight was fought without kiting them to hell and back - as long as the enemy has no CC and isnt faster... why would i allow them to attack even once? (ranged enemies are a different story, they get focused early)) or it can be plain boring (priest - the slowest clearspeed despite mass AOE abilities... maybe later on its fine...) - i want to play solo barb too, if my build works i can straight up fight everything but bossfights... however a character that cant kill some bosses... thats no good, but i dont know how to kill dragons etc with barbs (and i dont use scrolls... if i want to kill everything with spells i play a caster). You have to try for yourself, solo play isnt for everyone, when i started solo runs... it was a learning experience, i died and died and died... sure, part of it was because it was the first time i played that class (and i started solo quite early), but with a group you can do quests in random order and not care about it, however in solo play... thats not the case, there are quests you can and should do instantly while some quests should wait... it can be quite punishing if you dont know which quests you can manage.

Yes, I as well only play solo potd ironman, but with my hands tied behind my back and just randomly pressing a button on my keyboard with my nose - everything else would be far too easy, you know! And by the way, your remarks make perfect advice for a new player, as was requested... the advice i gave wasnt the remarks about my "i only play" it was about doors, withdraw and other thinks. and you know what? I have played 389h Pillars, (thats what steam says, its more - there is a bug, if i dont open it with steam it doesnt log and doesnt unlock achievements) and i finished the game a grand total of... 5 times? (group once, 2 times vanilla ironman chanter, 1 time ranger ironman vanilla, one time non ironman naked chanter with both expansion main storyline) I could go on and on and on and tell you why the game is easy, but i will make it short: if i dont play ironman i dont learn anything about how good my build is, because i die because of "its faster to risk dying then to make sure not to die" all the time, now if i am serious about a chanter run and its content i already mastered... i dont die. With all the tricks i learned in my runs i could finish the game in a serious ironman (chanter) attempt faster than in casual non ironman run - and man that feels good!

But why would you want to? Even if a new player would eventually want to try out PotD at all (which isn't a given), why is it better if (s)he gets there more quickly? Especially when, as you say, it requires game knowledge a new player inherently does not yet possess. I would have loved to start the game with POTD - if act 1 had a similiar difficulty as act 2 i would have finished the game with a party directly (restart POTD in act 1 instead of act 2) - however since the game was too easy for "hard" i restarted and played POTD at the end of act 2, only to stop the run at about the same point again and restart with a solo character - i prefer challenges! Thats why i havent finished everything yet, i know if i played a party i would get bored and die because of it (ironman always - naked chanter and until the first run to thaos were the exceptions) since i simply cant be bothered with the game if its too easy - while there are some bugs that make the builds i wanna play quite a bit weaker and i am waiting because i hope they are gone next patch (monk with triggered immunity bug... monk with torments reach bug... maybe chanter can buff his dragon thrashed next patch... that would be awesome) my solo run didnt finish thaos because of bad spells, bad items and bugged talent (itemslots), started a group run (ironman potd) after that and finished the game with 150+ death - the game was too easy to make me bother about anything, if my MC hadnt been a 3 con mage i wouldnt have needed pauses outside of bossfights (4 tanks, 1 healer, 1 3con mage... no i didnt need the mage for the fights, he simply made the game much harder) And i am not the only one who found hard too easy, i watched some streams when the game was released and one of them even went as far as changing it to POTD later on (as you know, not possible without tools or something) blind POTD... it wasnt that hard after act 1... quite some ppl played POTD blind on release on twitch. Now... i only play solo potd ironman, everything else is too easy - maybe i will try a no pause full clear party run... but that would be too hard instead :D

the less reliant on squishy damage dealer you are, the faster you can scale up to POTD (caster are quite fragile, if you are slightly careless they can die... making the fight much much much harder - not so much with monks or rangers) - thats my experience with PoE, i played <POTD maybe 3 times (runs that lasted >1h), my first run ended in gilded vale after i lost my grimoire to a bug, my 2nd run ended to redric castle bug, my 3rd run ended in act 2 because the fighting was too easy (the AI was more "oh lets focus the tank" then) the by far worst run i had was with a mage MC (okay, 3 con mage... wasnt the best decision i ever made)... i was raging like mad at the end of the run - sometimes i had to kill him myself so he wouldnt regen the last 3 endurance (else he would have really died)... i didnt even include him in every fight (more like... i used withdraw after 1-2 spells cast, if i could have benched him i would have done that)! (in one fight in the endless path i had him 2 screens away before engaging the fight, the enemies still aggroed him... if the priest hadnt gotten to him fast enough with withdraw that would habe been the end (ironman run)) starting POTD is ridiculous since the game tends to throw random encounters at you (act 1) that are harder than bossfights (at that time)... go ahead, play with 3/4 characters and try to clear the area south of gilded vale. Go ahead, the dungeon in gilded vale is harder than anything else you can face in act 1 - even most of act 2 isnt as hard. POTD isnt as much about game mechanics as its about items and encounter knowledge. As long as you leave yourself a way out in all fights or play a defensive party, you can start POTD quite early If you are good at BG like games... start hard... (or POTD and reload in act 1 like mad -.-) Things that make the game much easier: Use a priest (not as MC, but have one in party), he can counter most CC abilities (sadly, you need quite some levels to do it) Use withdraw - its the best spell to safe someone. If you play monk - make him your DD, use quite some int (at least 15 - i prefer 18-20) and learn your positioning for torments reach (you can use less dex - the game isnt about min maxing if you just start), if you position well he will deal enough damage to get through all non bossfights easily. Get a character with enough mechanic and go get the shade figurine and beetle figurine (you can get both early in act 2), they can change a lost fight. Abuse doors! Every door with enemies behind it is a free win - really, its as easy as it sounds - even a 6 melee party can use a door. Abuse walls and "end of maps", the game loves sending endless amounts of enemies, dont fight them in an open area, if there is a wall, perfect - only 3 sides left, so you cant get surrounded. Look who's your MVP character in every fight, make sure he is in a good position in fights and get him the support he needs (sometimes the MVP is the tank - if he keeps aggro because of good positioning than nothing is worse than the tank leaving the position - so make sure he doesnt) - a monk with torments reach can hit 1, 2, 3 or every enemy with every use (if there are many enemies its the bug that makes it strong, however 4m reach ability isn't bad, and thats what you can get) so if your monk is your MVP... position him well! The pathing is bad, you can abuse the enemy pathing (sometimes the pathing sucks enough that 1 enemy blocks 4 others... despite them having a way to your character) however make sure your characters dont stuck because of the pathing - its annoying and can cost you.

if its only TCS every class can do it, easily (ok, priests are a real pain early levels^^... they were so much better when figurines had no timelimit)... the real challenge is ultimate... with chanter i could do it atm (if i didnt hope that they fix the bugs around the fire chant i would have done it already), with other classes... not so much - would need to prepare much much more for them, honestly, i dont think i would manage it in a month xD (maybe monk or wizard... but i dislike wizard for ironman). (i dont like paladin/fighter so i dont play them... sure, i understand how they can do stuff but i dont want to play them) low resistance builds work quite well, you need to know the enemies so you dont get perma CCd but thats about it... the game is... honestly... too easy if you use all tricks