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6 Chanters wins the game - but everytime someone gets charmed he dies xD I'd rather use 1 hatchet (because of the ACC bonus +12 ACC is nice for dragon thrashed) instead of 2 - or 1 hatchet+shield... the weapon isnt the part with damage (at least not with hatchets) damn, my monk died stupidly yesterday (ToI), now i am thinking about playing chanter a bit more (it simply suXX that the soulbound armor is bugged for monk... so my build isnt done for the lategame... and i never used a cast chanter, always a dragon thrashed+summons one)

I can't see my Chanter in a Party - he is the hatchet murderer! Almost all the time he runs around with a hatchet (very important, the hatchet isn't enchanted) in a hand and singing... the whole world is burning everywhere he goes!

chanter is my favorite class, its the class i put in over 70% of my gametime (solo PotD ToI)... but everytime i use a party i either use the chanter to kill everything or he is a "lower the enemy endurance by 30-60" character - while my barb finishes everyone in range within a few moments... or *insert interesting activities*

For me its more like: before lvl 9 you dont really have anything worth using at the time you can use it - most fights are over before your DoT deals more than "insignificant" damage, the CC spells are too late to change anything... after lvl 9, the first dragon thrashed hits most likely - one or none because of the high distance at fight start (ok, you can put one lvl 1 chant first, thats better, however if i remember correctly, after stun etc you start at the beginning, so thats a problem) - and thats what makes him mediocre for me in non PotD, the fight is over before his damage is relevant in most fights add the playstyle and you have one character who isn't that fun

lvl 1=0%, 4=10%, 7=20%, 10=30%, 13=40%, 16=50% chant speed reduction - so every 3 levels. In a tanky group chanters can do a bit more even early on, however if you have a party that deals a bit damage, you need at least lvl 10 to build your stacks fast enough to really do something, sure, lvl 13/16 with lvl 1 chants he is quite active - but thats pretty late into a playthrough. I played a kinda tanky group with 1 MC chanter PotD, despite not enchanting items and not searching for the right weapon, the chanter didnt do anything but chant dragon thrashed a few times before the fight was over - that was the case in about every non kite non bossfight (so, if my badly equipped group could deal with the enemies without tricks, my chanter didnt use any invocations at all) - not really exciting, for me thats okay since i really like to see the world burn (but i tend to do nothing with everyone else (and i never ever let the AI use abilities) just to see the enemies burn a bit longer)

I have to say: in a non PotD party... a Chanter is mediocre, fine if you don't know what to do with your other 5 characters, but if you do - i'd say every other class is better, you shouldnt be able to use more than one invocation per fight... ok, there are a few fights where he can do more... but i dont see that you'd use a full slot for that... ok, dragon thrashed is good enough so you can use a melee chanter... put him in the most durable armor, give him the biggest shield - make him a mobile fortress and let the world burn (or give him the fire lash - thats fine too) But seriously, a Chanter needs long fights or dragon thrashed/fire lash... and thats not really exiting, rather a different character with many abilities you could use every fight... if you build an MC where all you do in about 95% of the fights is "attack the next enemy"

hmmm, i played chanter all the time and didn't care about the weapon... when i tried barb (low dex one) i felt a single Bittercut was good (1h no shield), but not as good as Tidefall - Firebrand was about as good (exceptional Bittercut) - 2 Sabres felt simply much worse (i dunno why, but i tried and failed to get good results) However its a barb only thing, since he ignores recovery pretty hard (and 2 weapon style is all about lowering recovery), the nerf should be good - in the beginning sabres still reign supreme, in the end you have Bittercut!

why so hard? chanter+priest... chanters chant while withdrawn too - have fun.

If you want to make pillars hard: make yourself play like the AI, no dodging, dumb spell usage, bad positioning - hell jeah! Less XP, less classes... thats not even close to bridge the gap - POTD... if you only try the base game, you can win with a 3 in everything solo character - and no, i dont wanna say "only with class X" because i dont think so, i think every class can solo the base game with 3 in everything (i know, i know - someone had to use a bug to win with a fully equipped fully skilled barb - sorry man, you didnt use all tricks available) i still remember my first solo ToI (almost) finish run... it was simple... base game act 3 with a chanter, sure - adragans can be annoying as hell, thats why i didnt fight them - everything else could only fall over and die, i started using bugs (okay, you could call it a feature, but it was a bug) i restarted dragon chant all the time so i did much more damage... sure, nice! But i forgot that some enemies can still outDPS that... so i got killed because i didnt use anything but dragon chant - i stood stupidly in front of mass enemies, normaly i could have killed them without using any ability beside the "normal" dragon chant and running in circles - heck, i could have equipped a potion and won that way. Na, i dont like restricting myself too much (okay, no figurines or something, or no caster - why not, but kiting is a normal strategy - even in RL you find good examples - faster+higher range is a legit strategy - what i really dislike is: kiting the enemy assassins to the guards... and they ignore each other) The enemies need better usage of the given abilities, thats whats needed, if they simply get better stats or something its simply frustrating, not hard (ok... it can get hard too if they have too too too high stats)

there is the chanter, in act 1 he has to skip raedric, the bear cave and the church (he can do all 3 if he has perfect positioning in bear cave - too much time for raedric - time to kill one enemy a time for the church) in act 2, once he has the 3/4 figurines... there isnt much that can stop him. I dont have to splitpull normally (maybe bounties) - but the class is a cheesy one. the expert mode... i havent played without expert in a long long long time, its too bad i dont see the defense (sorry, but the encyclopedia is useless), but i like playing without range indicator - i learn the range and its plain stupid if you can hit right on the perfect pixel... na, its still RPG, a mage in a fight with pinpoint acc? I dont like it. Ok, so in some cases i dont choose the perfect angle - but have you seen the enemies? They dont try to dodge and they use AOE spells that hit zero members that care about getting hit - so its kinda fair if i dont hit 100%. normally i dont like achievements, but i like defeating games (that can be finished in a reasonable time) on the highest settings possible, the achievements are a good indicator sometimes.

i simply shouldnt have used that word... as long as you play concentrated and dont overestimate your ability to win the encounter without using too many abilities/positioning/pausing whatever... in short, as long as you dont get "imagine a word that would get censored" i'd love a harder mode where you cant even see what spells the enemy is using, that one makes it too easy to dodge about 80% of the damage many mages do... alternative the AI spellcasters should cast as little of the easy to dodge spells as possible... party play is too easy for me, especially with self created characters - i finished the game once with a party (ToI...every character was knockout >15 times because i had 3 chanters and didnt care about anything, priest didnt have immunity spells at that time and every time one of my chanters got charmed at least one character died, sometimes even 2-3) and dont think it was any kind of challenge, it was too easy and thats why characters died left and right, it didnt matter so i didnt use potions or... anything. another run was very hillarious, 4 ranger, one chanter and one paladin... full ranged party with animal companions as tanks - the AI couldnt cope with it so i had to abandon it, sometimes the enemies tried to get past the bears despite having no way past them, not every enemy switched aggro to them... solo runs are not like that, thats why i like them.

PoE is ridiculous easy if: a) you know the genre well, b) you build a group that has good synergy c) you dont get ****y i think i could manage to defeat the game without using pauses if that was the only point i'd be ****y... the only things that can actually kill you... rushing to hard fights without lvling enough - doesnt happen if you do all quests. and not enough knowledge about CC encounters or a wrongly engaged bossfight. I played BG and BG2 without mods, BG was harder because you couldnt rest whenever you wanted to, BG2 was just easy, a few buffspells and nothing could touch you - and you could cast them before the fight... i played before using the internet all the time - i didnt pay for it, so no mods for me.

the chanters have so many ways to deal with enemies... its ridiculous. you could play with 3 in every stat and still manage to finish the game... if you dont want to use the items against stunlock you can use summons to kill them, no need to go into range - ever. If you want to clear one area in a fast time - just dont kill every enemy, let one enemy survive in each encounter (best a weak one) and use him to get stacks to summon stuff to aggro the next group, go in while they focus your summons=profit, you dont have to rest because the summons tank and you dont need to use figurines. Compare that with other classes... they either have to rest quite a bit or take very long...

na - i did it before 2.0 and after 3.0, after 3.0 i died because i didnt know the perma stun encounters (am waiting a few patches before playing my ultimate run, so i didnt try the boss fights with thas build yet), but its a fast way to kill stuff, if the figurine is placed right you kill the enemies fast enough to not care about anything else, if you dont mind a few tricks you can do it easily outside of bossfights - bossfights are forced fights so you can go ham as a chanter... i simply dont see any problems here. CC is the only problem i encountered - many fights i could simply go in and fight it out like a boss - and be the last one standing, nothing but engaging the fight needed, enemies dead before i could summon ogres or right after. i never max deflection because i dont have the attributes to get resolve and i dont use a shield - sure, i dont mind everything else... but thats just not "that much" i prefer the *0,73 damage item against crits, the boots and going ham... with as low deflection as i can have :D (and wound binding is a real good idea with that playstyle, some fights my healthpool is too low despite max con... because i dont rest after every fight)

deflection... how dull... stack ACC! single handed weapon no shield=+20 ACC (+12 1h no -8 shield) - hit them reliable so the fight is over fast - makes for much more fun. It simply suxx if you miss too much (ok, boss fights... arent that easy that way... but fun!)

The phantom gets butchered, sure... but it should get one attack out - thats enough. I think even enemies dont heal forever (trolls do...)

killing raedric with chanter should be quite easy (but not worth it at all), i did it all the time when summons were perma, but its not that much harder with 15 sec phantoms, the safe way is just too long to bother - i did it 1 time and it just suXX... just dont bother, its really easy once you have the main figurines, why the hard way in ToI?

lvl 6-9 is the hardest part... but for "hardest part" its quite easy... with stag helmet, time and ranged summons, and time, and more time and even more time - did i mention time? - 3 bounties are quite "easy" and white worms is simply ridiculous, spider cave, heritage hill... one wave tactic... storm them, do it!

Dragon Thrashed is so strong if you have high perception and might (and enough int to hit enough enemies) - maybe eldritch aim potion... if you play with such a chanter you dont need dex or low armor recovery... and you will still deal enough damage to kill most stuff in a reasonable time - doing nothing but keeping the chanter chanting... but you should forget him in your group and dont micro him - at all - if you start looking at his damage and simply microing him so he hits everyone and he doesnt get CC'd... its the most boring way to play... i think i will test a caster chanter again - i really wanna know how effective a high level chanter with white wurms is (buff his ACC and hit those pesky monks stack them sky high... wanna blow something up?) too bad i dont have time anytime soon - but it sounds like fun!

i tested a bit 1-2 patches ago - dex and armor both play a role how fast you can get consecutives spells out, however it doesnt matter for the first spell and you dont get the spell itself faster with more dex/lower armor. The spell always needs the same time no matter how much dex/armor you have. However: you get 2 pauses after using an invocation: 1) right after the spell is done, before your character starts moving/acting again. 2) after your character starts moving again and before your chants start again. 1) is dependend on dex, the more dex the faster you can move again - armor doesnt matter. 2) is dependend on armor recovery and i think dex too - too long ago. if you have either high dex or low armor recovery, you dont loose "that much time" (chant stop to chant start), however if dex is low and recovery is high... it looked multiplicative and you loose quite some time (a few secs - since you could cast lvl 1 invocations every 6 secs lategame if you had no recovery... a few secs is... too much) changing the chant, ending the fight, getting CC'd and casting invocations stops your chants, everything else doesnt (as far as i know) - so dex is in my opinion only needed if you play a solo chanter (the pause after casting before moving can kill you with low dex in solo play) - or if you want to cast much lategame and still want a high DR armor. dont have my numbers anymore (and didnt post them) so i cant tell you how much time it is exactly, it should be 4 dex vs 19 dex - 1 sec slower to move again. 4 dex no armor recovery and 19 dex 50% armor recovery create the same pause (chant stopping to chant starting again) attackspeed from 2 weapon fighting didnt affect it (didnt try the speed invocation or the potion)

The trick is... take Chanter, learn the pathing, take enough resolve... and you can kite them to death (did it a few times to test it with a naked chanter who had 3 resolve, so additional challenge because of the interrupt) you can do that lvl 1, no animat needed. or... you can do the FoF trick, because of the dmg aura there is about no chance to fail it (okay, if you have bad hits you can summon a phantom too) Jeah ok, its a monk, i can skip the ghosts - not like chanter, chanter have some problems with the spiders (my builds at least) and have to go back to get some camping supplies - not good if phantoms are waiting for you :D

did they change something? I mean... i did it with animat+fan of flames all the time - in ironman runs... without respeccing anything, this time i changed my build to max the stats needed to kill them fast and took talents to enhance the damage against spirits and the damage of FoF... i needed 5 tries i mean, it was a chanter normally with the dmg aura... but i had 3 dex normally... this build seems pretty OP for many situations in solo (high mobility so you get the enemies to line up for the bugged torments reach... sounds hella fun, the more adds a boss has the fast he dies)

If you play a paladin tank your ranger wouldnt be in range for the aura most of the time - so the acc isnt that beneficial, but the combination should work. If you build them right i dont think you'd run into that many problems since a paladin tank is really strong - but i never tried, in my games the enemies ignored my tanks and stormed my backline, i had to close ways to stop that or use the ranger animal (since the aggro script seems to love targeting him) so i dont know how much help the paladin will be in open areas. I love Chanters - Chanters kill everything. I love Priests - Priests make surviving very easy. I love Monks, Monks deal insane amounts of damage if you build them right - a Priest can keep him alive long enough for him to kill the enemy. Chanter+Priest - if you know what to do... i dont think there is any really hard encounter in the game... Chanter+Monk - the Monk starts the fight, the Chanter finishes the fight - it can be a real challenge (much harder than solo chanter) but for me its insanely fun combo (but most dont like Chanter gameplay) Monk+Priest - there isnt much that can trouble you later on... Monk DPS them down and Priest makes him CC immune and heals+buffs him... easy mode. One little thing: Act 1 is about the hardest Act PotD... some encounters get from "you cant fail even if you only attack as a caster, without weapon" to "only with some classes and good hits and much luck"... so dont despair

the "best case" is really really really strong - you can oneshot many enemies with torments reach if the enemies stand in a line - the smaller they are, the easier it is - the higher your int, the easier it is I really dont wanna test the extreme case... maybe 3 torments reach to kill a dragon? na, the adds would die too fast for that and getting them in the best position is too hard - well, maybe the fire dragon one, but the adds are done after one good torments reach, maybe if you lower his DR a bit one torments reach could be enough... the first time i really knew there was something wrong with it was after not saving after a fight and reloading because of something stupid - first fight i oneshot the whole encounter (the thugs in the quest for the brothel), the 2nd time i didnt - i had to use around 3-4 torments reach against the strongest thug... made me think and shelf my monk for a while... I dont want to play a pure position game - human enemies? get them to follow you in a line and hit them once - if the front was squishy the fight is over, else you have to hit 1-2 more. Iconic projection hits a few times (at least sometimes) but i never saw it when i used it, only if enemies used it... quite annoying to get one shot from a "20 damage spell"... with >100 endurance... i dont think its the same bug - torments reach activates the cone for every enemy hit, but iconic projection is one projectile and that hits, no generation of new events...

Thats not a lot of informations to work with - you could post a savegame, you could post why you didnt hit (as in, move your mouse over a miss so we can see the too high defense), there is a Thread about "how to report ab Issue"... but lets face it, as long as the answer to the following 2 question is: yes... then i can tell you the problem and how to solve it atm. question 1: are you playing Version 3,02? question 2: did you save/load in that particular area? if 2 positive answers, the bug is: enemies with shields get increased defense (reflex and deflection) every time you save/load, the bug is (at least patchnotes say so) fixed in 3.03, if you want to patch to 3.03... its only a beta patch at the moment. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/76849-patch-betas-on-steam/ If thats not the case... there is no way without more informations