Meshugger

As several have already said in this thread, but a really good villain is someone that no matter how evil and vile his or her acts are, you cannot help to sympathize with him/her. Or a kind of funny twist would be that no matter how righteous your character is, the end villain would be you. The same would apply if you were trying to be evil, you would save the very world that you wanted to burn. Oh the irony.

Thanks for the rest of the answers, everyone! It seems like there's only one common trend, and that is that no one is really cheerful for Obama, neither is anyone really pro-Romney either. Is the election destined to become a snooze-fest?

That guy from police academy should do all the voices, and the effects. Hell, he would probably do them all in one session.

I am thinking about the ending-scene now, great analogy *sniff*

Finland I still haven't met a single one in my town that has heard of Planescape: Torment. But on the other hand, due to my work, i tend to travel to Sweden a lot and no one seems to have heard about it there either. I heard about Fallout once in a pub while studying in Turku though.

The chosen one works if it is interesting. The Nameless one, The Exile and The mask of the betrayer (or whatever characters "name" was) all were chosen ones where they had to choose their own destinies. Having a game where the whole world is there for the player by design, making him/her the chosen one is rather boring though.

Well, story and settings-wise it is all PS:T for me. While other games provided better gameplay mechanics and combat, it was something special and personal with PS:T. It is one of the few games that shows that ignorance and evil prevail just because it is more simple and easier to do so, while actually being good was very difficult and placed a heavy burden on the player. You know, just like real life. The other part is that is due to the setting, where belief shapes reality, the player has to form their own philosophy during the playthrough which truly makes it a gem. In the end, you also *know* more about yourself than you did before. Similar role-playing can also be found in NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer. However, i often found the combat (when it unavoidable) tedious. This is where Tim and Josh come in, they know this and they like making fun and challenging gameplay. So while i voted for PS:T, i truly wish for a somesort mishmash of all of the above.

Thanks! Anyone else?

The thread should've been locked after anek posted his(hers?) brilliant reply, there was nothing left to discuss really....until Josh showed up with his derailment. By all means, you have my blessing to derail the thread further, that snip was quite interesting!

Hey US citizens! Compared to Bush, what has the Obama administration done differently in terms of policies? Namely - Foreign policy - Domestic policy - Economic policy - Security policy - Social policy And what changes would Romney in turn, if become elected, bring to these policies? I would like to get a better picture from actual americans instead of reading newsweek or the economist.

You're making even less sense now. Access to and acceptance of all cultures IS multiculturalism. That's just being nice, which is a pretty damn loose definition for a political movement. Read again what i said, I was talking about cultural identity. In Hurlshot's case, they were all proud Americans. A nation founded on an ideal. That's their cultural identity. The problem that i was talking about is that germans, japanese, persians, russians and whatnot have their cultural identity. They have their own code of conduct, customs, ethics and language and to a certain degree: ethnicity. They move to another country where they all keep being germans, japanese, persians and russians. What is the cultural identity of the nation if it is all consisted of germans, japanese, persians and russians? Either it will morph into a completely different one (various south american countries), separate ministates in a looser federation (Switzerland) or a dominant culture will be the defining one (Anglo-saxon in the US, Australia, etc...). That's why i find it pointless to have a nation of true multicultularism to begin with when there's no underlying fabric that binds people together as a society. Being nice to one another? Oh please, there has to be a more sound social foundation than that. What is right and wrong? What rights and obligations should an individual have? What is the role of the state in relation to the citizen and so on... That's why i am more for free trade as an expression of multiculture, since it is a voluntary act between two different actors that share a common interest: trading.

Eh, you do have a common national culture. Nationality based on an ideal of a life of liberty and pursuit of happiness. What you are talking about is minorities working within the same framework since the nation was formed. That is your national identity, which is unique. There's a reason why the US is called new world, you know.

I do find it odd that multiculturalists in high political positions aren't that open about being against the nation state. It is dishonest since i find multiculture the anti-thesis of nationalism. I mean, multiculture means no set of ethics, law or language (everyone participates in their respective societies according to which culture they feel that they belong). Also, why do you have to have multiculture as an agenda? It happens all the time through trade since humanity crawled out of the slime. It's an organic effect in terms of people meeting each other.

I forgot, these kinds of people like Ravel in PS:T becuase she was a woman, not because she was a interesting character in herself. Talk about having a superficial and banal attitude. Sho-shooo!

Again with the simplistic ideas just to fit an agenda. Shoo-shooo! The lot of you. Isn't it more interesting to have a gameworld with conflicting ideas and cultures, where each action is an organic reaction to previous ones?

I am starting to understand why 50 shades of grey is so popular now...

Always good to see Gromnir debating, what delivery, what prose! But to the point. The middle east really needs to take a look in the mirror (notice how the reactions in east asia is much calmer). There's something seriously wrong in their very culture of identity. Pakistan is even calling for Interpool enforcing blasphemy-laws in the name of "preserving a civil society". And for those who constantly claim "Well i am for freedom of speech, but.....", seriously go **** yourselves each and every one of you. If i said the previous statement in the US, or printed it in my own paper or sang it on a record, i would be protected by the first amendment to do so. But is it guaranteed in all member states in the EU? no. Is protected in the middle east? no. In glorious republic of Russia? no. What's the next excuse? You only outlaw "vulgarity"? You want to enforce "civil behaviour"? Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

*sigh* another example, since it seems like some people doesn't understand the banality of pandering: Gays didn't become accepted in the heavy metal scene because Judas Priest made a record on gay awareness, they became accepted because the singer in Judas Priest was gay.

Obsidian wouldn't be doing a kickstarter if they just wanted to make the most money by making mainstream games. They'd just make AAA action RPGs that are shallow and pander to all groups while selling 3+ million copies. Of course they might end up like Bioware where DA2 and ME3 weren't well received and TOR is about to go free to play because they tried too hard to pander to their market and made terrible games instead. I think my point went a bit over your head, i even added a quote by Carlin in the end to make sure that people got the joke I got the point of your post and the joke at the end. If you were being sarcastic with the market info then yeah I didn't get that because it sounded like you were trying to make a legitimate point. If you were making a legitimate point then you didn't get the points in my post. I was channeling Bill Hicks ideas' on marketers and their influence on product placement as a joke (google it, cannot link it due to the clip containing cuss words). But for the rest of you: Let Obsidian include whatever character they want according to what they feel like. Maybe it is even happens to be a gay one, but difference would be that it was because they feel it is important to them in their creation, not because people have banded together and requested it. The difference is that the former stems from artist's own vision, the other is just pandering, which is shameless at best and embarrassing at worst.

Obsidian wouldn't be doing a kickstarter if they just wanted to make the most money by making mainstream games. They'd just make AAA action RPGs that are shallow and pander to all groups while selling 3+ million copies. Of course they might end up like Bioware where DA2 and ME3 weren't well received and TOR is about to go free to play because they tried too hard to pander to their market and made terrible games instead. I think my point went a bit over your head, i even added a quote by Carlin in the end to make sure that people got the joke

Studies have shown from various sources, which includes careful selective group testing, that consolidating creative resources in order to accommodate most demographics will increase profitability by as much as 5-10%. The finished product will reflect the needs and interest of the current market with optimal accurancy. The marketing has shown it. It is a great dollar, wonderful dollar, it is a huge market, i can assure you. Or of course Obsidian can work according to how George Carlin said to a heckler: "I am here for me; you are all here for me; no one is here for you"

Ok guys lets rewind a year back. Who would've predicted that Josh, Tim and Chris would start a kickstarter-project for their dream-game and the Bioware founders quitting simultaniously? You would've been laughed at, that's for sure.

Pretty much what I meant to type upon reading this thread. Another example: A song of Ice and Fire-series. Magic exists to a certain degree, but it still so mysterious that very few have experienced it, and even less have any profeciancy in it.

Go on. This list is actually intruiging...

In order to satisfy everyone, i suggest that Obsidian outsources female design to an external company that specializes fashion trends among females through very selective focus group testings and committ