Character Rollaholic - Mea Culpa

[Gromnir]

d&d makes rock-paper-scissors analogy far closer than you suggest. is 3 basic save types in d&d 3.0 and beyond: 1) fort 2) reflex 3) will. analogy is not so much that rakshassa is vulnerable to blessed piercing weapons. rather, is typical far more simple. big burly warrior types is gonna have good or bad fort saves? take a guess.  not take a genius to figure out, eh? combat at high levels in d&d is all 'bout trying to exploit foes' bad saves, and minimizing your own poor saves. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Lephys]

So it's being used to represent the lack of complexity? 'Cause, I mean... you can have Rock-Paper-Scissors-Tornado-Lava-Pigeon-LawnChair-TonboGiri, and you're STILL going to go down the list and have a particular thing either be good or bad against another thing. Either specific thing are good against fire, or NOTHING is good against fire. You can't have both. And, like I said, the only alternative is that any given thing is RANDOMLY effective against any other given thing.

 

It just seemed to me like people are suggesting that the idea of identifying something as strong against A and weak against B, then selecting B in lieu of A in order to take advantage of its weakness, is somehow flawed. But, as long as you have plenty of factors at play (like... how available is B versus A? How easy is it to deliver B instead of A? How many combatants are on the field that ARE weaker to A than they are to B, and is it worth the cost/time of swapping/preparing B just for that one target's weakness? etc.), everything's fine.

 

So, yeah... I just wanted to emphasize the fact that identifiable weaknesses and strengths aren't the bad guy or anything. Of course, there should be a LOT more involved with decision-making than just damage-type effectiveness.

[Tamerlane]

So it's being used to represent the lack of complexity? 'Cause, I mean... you can have Rock-Paper-Scissors-Tornado-Lava-Pigeon-LawnChair-TonboGiri, and you're STILL going to go down the list and have a particular thing either be good or bad against another thing. Either specific thing are good against fire, or NOTHING is good against fire. You can't have both. And, like I said, the only alternative is that any given thing is RANDOMLY effective against any other given thing.

I've always liked it when you had things that were simultaneously good and bad against a thing. Like, say, an ice elemental does double damage to a fire elemental, but also takes double damage. Or you hit the robot with a lightning spell and it hits way harder than normal, but it also doubles its speed or charges the enemy with electrical attacks or whatever. I think that was an enemy in Breath of Fire 3. I dunno.

 

Though I suspect Gromnir is talking about how rock-paper-scissors implies "hard counters" over "soft counters". If you're a Starcraft fan, consider the differences between a marauder VS stalker fight in SC2 (a total walkover for the marauders; the only thing the stalkers can possibly hope to do is maybe retreat) and a goliath VS carrier fight in Brood War (you make goliaths to fight carriers, yet large goliath numbers don't guarantee safety from aerial attacks). I don't think that's a particular thing we have to worry too much about in PE, as Sawyer seemed pretty opposed to binary success/failure mechanics.

[Gromnir]

So it's being used to represent the lack of complexity? 

 

didn't say that, so all else that follows is mostly... noise. also, am pretty sure we said that the rock-paper-scissors bit were rational and a perceived strength o' the d&d system.

 

we did note that the we don't have enough info to identify what exactly josh is doing with PE.  classes is a common aspect o' rock-paper-scissors, but josh is minimizing the peaks and valleys o' attributes and class benefits (at least from what little we has seen) and that is kinda antagonistic to rock-paper-scissors. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Fearabbit]

Lephys, I believe Gromnir wants to say that the Rock-Paper-Scissors system is popular. Not a bad thing. I agree with you that the comparison is often a bit wonky since you know what you're facing beforehand. (That's different in Pokemon, for example, where you don't know which type the next Pokemon you fight will be. The Rock-Paper-Scissors comparison works well here - and yes, it's one of the reasons why the series is so popular, too.)

 

Tamerlane's example of a robot that is weak to lightning but is also charged up by it is awesome, by the way. I honestly hadn't thought of this option. Would be very cool if some monsters in the game had a weakness like that.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Fearabbit

[Lephys]

I appreciate the responses. I wasn't trying to be difficult or purely criticize or anything. I just wasn't super clear on exactly what was being referred to with the phrase "rock-paper-scissors." I think it tends to come up sometimes when people just think that one element being strong against another element (for example) is lame or cliche or too simplistic or something, and that may have led to my confusion.

 

But, yes, I'm not saying that's what Gromnir meant by it, and I understand what's being said in not those few times when it sort of gets used to little effect, and it makes a great deal of sense now.

 

And yes, I think Josh commented on that very thing quite recently. He said something along the lines of "If you've got 10 different damage types, it's a lot better for us to remove 3 or 4 of them as viable options against a particular defense than to say 'only this ONE out of ten will work against this defense!'". Which, as you guys have said, is very good news in this regard.

 

It's fine to have certain things be good against certain other things, and certain things be bad against certain other things. But, you definitely want to keep the system rich enough to allow for lots of interesting possibilities and combinations, rather than having so few factors to begin with that knocking a couple down results in a Highlander-like damage system of "THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!". Obviously, if it were actually Highlander, it would be Lightning...

 

@Tamerlane: I LOVE the paired positive/negative effect notion! Along those same lines, I also like splitting the effects of an attack, in general. The example I've made before is a fireball; it both burns with fire/heat AND explodes with force. Some things might be resistant/immune to heat, but the force of the explosion could still produce a positive benefit, while others might be resistant/immune to the kinetic force but highly susceptible to fire.

 

Between those two notions, alone, that makes for EXTREMELY interesting situations. You've got multiple potential effects from a given attack or ability, which can be individually blocked, weakened, not-blocked, or strengthened. THEN, you've got potential additional concocted effects, on both the positive and negative sides. Negative being like your lightning-vs-robot example. Even if lighting does extra damage against a human wearing lots of metal, it only produces the turbo-charging effect on the robot, so it's a distinct negative (for the player character) result. Or, with something like a fireball, you could hit an ice golem for raw enhanced damage, OR a wood golem/treant-type enemy for not only increased raw damage, but also an additional Ignite effect that causes fire damage over time.

 

So many possibilities...

[Messier-31]

I didn't want o start a new thread so I'll ask away here.

 

In a few words, what do we know about character creation? Stats, perks, all the things you can pick, modify, customize, et cetera? Will there be some backgrounds to choose from for your PC, some history of *you* before the game starts?

[coffeetable]

I didn't want o start a new thread so I'll ask away here.

 

In a few words, what do we know about character creation? Stats, perks, all the things you can pick, modify, customize, et cetera? Will there be some backgrounds to choose from for your PC, some history of *you* before the game starts?

Talents and skills are definitely in, and combat skills (like weapon proficiencies) are separate from non-combat skills (like lockpicking).

 

Ability scores of some kind are in I believe, but there hasn't been a peep on exactly what they are, so expect something divergent from STR/CON/DEX/WIS/INT/CHA. The only thing that's been said about them is that every class is viable with every setting of ability scores (though some may certainly be suboptimal), so there are no dump stats or must-haves.

 

Similarly, every race and every culture is compatible with every class.

 

There's a strong indication that the PC is a blank slate, as it's been explicitly said there's nothing special about the PC except being in the right place at the right time. It's also been indicated that you're new to the region, and you can't play a Dyrwood native. My guess is you're fresh off a boat from the old world.

Edited November 21, 2013 by coffeetable

[Messier-31]

There's a strong indication that the PC is a blank slate, as it's been explicitly said there's nothing special about the PC except being in the right place at the right time. It's also been indicated that you're new to the region, and you can't play a Dyrwood native. My guess is you're fresh off a boat from the old world.

 

Do we know for how long (years, centuries) the area has been being colonized before the PC shows up?

 

Also, is my Present Perfect Continuous any good?

[coffeetable]

It's been colonized for at least two hundred years (coz that's when all the Godhammer stuff happened), but I don't think the exact length of time has been given.

[Lephys]

Ability scores of some kind are in I believe, but there hasn't been a peep on exactly what they are, so expect something divergent from STR/CON/DEX/WIS/INT/CHA. The only thing that's been said about them is that every class is viable with every setting of ability scores (though some may certainly be suboptimal), so there are no dump stats or must-haves.

To clarify, I'm pretty sure "every setting" just means "if you beef up STAT A instead of STAT B, you'll still get a benefit that will be helpful toward some useful capability for that character" and not "20 STR or 3 STR... your Warrior will be just as good at everything he does."

 

I just wanted to throw that out before the inevitable "OMG, so it doesn't matter how we assign out stat points in P:E?" cropped up.

[nikolokolus]

3d6s, arrange as you like, random professions and no min-maxing in Swords & Wizardry or go home.

[Tamerlane]

Arrange as you like?

 

Pfft. Rollplayer.

[Mor]

Overall, weapon/damage type switching should be occasional, not frequent.  We currently have seven damage/resist types.  In the vast majority of cases, on any given creature or type of armor, most damage types have the same DT as the base DT.  One, two, or possibly three damage types will have a higher or lower DT.  Those differences will also be consistent, so if you see someone in mail -- whether it's run-of-the-mill or some awesome magical variant -- their relative DT is always going to be worse for Crush than the base.  If you see someone in plate, their relative DT for Shock is always going to be worse than the base.  If there are two size variants of a monster, its relative damage type strengths/weaknesses will typically be maintained between the variants.

Can weapons have more than one damage type? We have seven damage types(4 physical, 3 elemental), I assume that every melee weapon must have one of the physical damage types, so slashing + fire = burning sword, right? Will that apply to magical implements and abilities as well?

 

Also what kind of weapon or attack will be measured against my Fortitude defense?( it will have Acid damage, I suppose)

Edited January 5, 2014 by Mor

[Messier-31]

Question about char-rolling: what are your ways of coming up with a character name?

 

1. Standard name generator

There's no point in making things up by yourself, let the software/webside do it for you.

 

CAILVAN

THISEDOR

 

2. "Here kitty, kitty" name generator

Smash the keys on the keyboard in a random manner, or let the cat do it for you.

 

DUIRFHG

LIDYF

 

3. Self-made man

Your own ideas are well thought and prepared beforehand.

 

(these examples were taken from MMO's)

OBAMACARE

SWORDWIELDINGGUY

 

4. Thief

Just take an already existing name from a novel, movie, some other game, etc.

 

MADMARTIGAN, a human warrior

LEGOLAS, an elven ranger

 

5. Other?

 

Sometimes I find it troublesome and spend too much time thinking the right name for a char, because I want it unique.

What about you?

[Death Machine Miyagi]

Question about char-rolling: what are your ways of coming up with a character name?

A lot of times I steal names from lesser characters in fiction. For example, I had a female character named Dunia after Raskolnikov's sister in Crime and Punishment. 

 

In other cases, I do a wiki search for some cool historical names to steal or use google translate to find a foreign word for some trait my character is supposed to possess that sounds like it could work as a name. 

 

And then there are the times when I'm just completely lazy and throw random syllables together willy-nilly until I find something that sounds vaguely name-like and not too stupid.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Death Machine Miyagi

[PrimeJunta]

Question about char-rolling: what are your ways of coming up with a character name?

 

Whim.

 

Sometimes I use bad puns. Sometimes I use rude Finnish phrases. Sometimes I make a themed party and think of names that fit the theme. 

 

One of my parties was named Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Bukharin, Dzerzhinsky, and Rosa Luxemburg.

[IndiraLightfoot]

You guys are clearly more innovative and humorous than me!

 

While I love rolling up characters and tinkering with the prospect of them for hours, my naming convention is almost atrocious. I simply reuse the same PnP RPG characters that I loved the most way back when, and they get to inhabit almost all CRPGs. Sometimes I twist their spelling and such, but in essence, they are almost like Jungian archetypes (not that I believe in such stuff). But Rosa Luxemburg is a great one. I'm really tempted having her in my next RPG, perhaps along with Calamity Jane, and then they'll take it from there.

[PrimeJunta]

Don't forget Anna Akhmatova and Alexandra Kollontai.

[Gromnir]

rare does we utilize fictional character names from literature or movies. instead we go with moderate obscure historical and/or religious names. Agnodike might be name of a female cleric if the cleric is the primary healer. male healers might get named after famous saints linked to healing/hospitals: Cosmas, Damian, Basil. conversely, Roland would probable be too obvious for a paladin.

 

*shrug*

 

alternatively, we rely heavily on our old pnp characters. Vindrogan Frostbeard were one o' our first dwarf characters... back when dwarf was a class in D&D... and yeah, we know it is a silly name, but we were a kid when we came up with it, so sue us.

 

am suspecting that naming habits is somehow significant, but am not certain how. had a friend that Always named his main Chesty McVargas. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Silent Winter]

Sometimes I steal from a favourite book:

Aldric (fighter-mage)

Sometimes I use a word that has resonance with the character as a kind of nickname:
Scythe (Assassin)

Fang (Werewolf)

And sometimes I'll just try to make one up:

Carn (Sorceror)

(then again, Carn is also an English form of Cairn)

Arron (Druid)

Kilya (Sorceress) (She was evil and it sounded like 'Kill ya' )

 

For BG I usually didn't bother with full names (as it would get annoying for everyone to always use your full name in dialogue, but in e.g. NWN2, where you could designate First and Last names, I'd start from a random generator and then modify to a name I like (for last name, first name always done from scratch).

Edited May 26, 2014 by Silent Winter

[Osvir]

Question about char-rolling: what are your ways of coming up with a character name?

I have a few character concepts I re-purpose. Other than that I just randomly come up with something that sounds fantasy-ish.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I roll on a random table.

 

By the way, having a name generator that offers you culturally appropriate names based on what race and background you chose would be splendid.

[Jarmo]

Question about char-rolling: what are your ways of coming up with a character name?

 

 

 

 

Look around. Think. Spot objects.

 

Mmm... my elf archer will be....ummm.... Twinings.

The dwarven axeman... hmmm.... Stabilo Boss.

And the human thief... Staedtler.

[Osvir]

I roll on a random table.

 

By the way, having a name generator that offers you culturally appropriate names based on what race and background you chose would be splendid.

Or having a small descriptive box when you get to the naming phase of the chargen that says "Common Aumauan names XXXX" for whatever race you picked.