Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Dragon Age 2


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
512 replies to this topic

#401
Zoraptor

Zoraptor

    (10) Necromancer

  • Members
  • 1530 posts

I wouldn't be surprised if the cost/return ratio for DA2 was significantly higher even with considerably lower numbers of product sold, just due to the fact that DAO had been in production for, what 5-8 years


That would be true for Bioware the Independant Company, not so much for Bioware the Wholly Owned Subsidiary. Previous development time and time to shipping for DA(O) would have been factored into the purchase price. The cost to EA would only be the ~ 2 years from buy out to shipping.

while DA2 had a full crew on it for ~a year, year and a half depending on what they did while the console ports were underway.

18 months seems a fair estimate. They brought in a 3rd party to do the console ports so presumably the Bioware DA team did not sit around twiddling their thumbs for six months from April 09; otoh (presumably) some Bioware people were helping them out and Awakenings took time and man hours too.

I'm still of the opinion that they had enough time for a expandalone type game and that the problems with DA2 largely result from factors other than shortness of 'raw' time. Time would fix some of the more egregious issues (copypasta dungeons) but a number of its problems stem from production issues that suggest it was just poorly managed in some respects.

Overall it seems likely that Bioware simply could not cope well with being told that they had to get the game out the door in March to make financial Q4.

#402
Orogun01

Orogun01

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2683 posts
  • Location:somewhere over the rainbow

^ Possibly. Add to that the fact that consoles have peaked performance-wise for the next three or four years. PC gamers benefit from that and a good CRPG manifestly doesn't need to be a systems hawg to look and feel good.

I've posted here before that the future for good, new-old-skool CRPGs might well mirror the thriving and profitable (albeit smaller-scale) computer war games market (check out Matrix Games if you don't believe me). The first generation of elite modders are now in the position to get involved if they choose not to go mainstream.

Plus, as I said to Boo earlier, bigger dev houses (and indeed I include Obsidian in this) are still making interesting, different and rewarding CRPGs (I would put both AP and FO:NV in this category).

I know the war games market as being an offshoot of the PC strategy games, which is sort of related to CRPGs since both peaked at the same time. I would love to see old school RPGs follow the same model of only catering to their; albeit minor, target audience. It also seems that old school it's making it's break onto the mainstream with games like Hunted, DS3 and Kingdoms of Amalur, all these i'm cautiously optimistic.

I'm not so sure that the "mainstreamization" of RPGs is a good thing, they were always sort of the outcasts games. Text heavy, drew intensely from PnP games (so it had that added nerd factor) and the mechanics confused a lot of people. By their nature they used to be exclusive, making them appealing to the mainstream has taken away a lot of what these kinds of games were.

Edit: I forgot Diablo III.

Edited by Orogun01, 10 April 2011 - 03:48 PM.


#403
greylord

greylord

    (8) Warlock

  • Members
  • 1053 posts
Bah, Humbug...

RPG's have been mainstream since...well FF first was created. Maybe not specifically Western PC RPG's...but RPG video games have been a large chunk in many ways. In fact many credit FFVII as being THE GAME that drove the original Playstation over the brink into popularity, breaking the ice wall it had previously been pushing against but unable to break out of.

Action RPG's got their breakout as massively popular when Diablo came out...further exemplified by Diablo II and the slew of games that followed it's lead. I'd say Action RPG's are still highly popular.

Turn based RPG's still are being put out in large by JRPG makers...with Atlus being the major player there.

I'd also say RPG's are bigger then ever on the PC...but NOT the tradition RPGs...

Many FPS as well as other games have Roleplaying elements in them. Ways that I can increase my damage with shots, gain the ability to have certain weapons in game, and other items which basically increase my player's abilities and capacity as I progress in the game.

This isn't a new thing either. Take a look at the Jedi Knight series where it incorporated this Roleplaying type experience into a third person shooter (hmmm, now that I think about it, I loved the JK series...and ME has some similarities with JK).

I think the definition of RPG being used here is a little too narrow. I think RPGs have been mainstream, but gain and fade in how much mainstream they are. I'd actually say they are at a high point of popularity right now as opposed as downhill. Square Enix, Blizzard, BioWare, Bethesda, Atlus, Raven (well...not as much now, but they were) are all pretty big in the RPG scene...even Sega has a few that have come out in the past few years.

They just aren't all turnbased...

#404
Volourn

Volourn

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 15514 posts
  • Location:North Bay, Ontario, Kanada
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
The fact is that it's ahrd to get an agreed upon defintion of what a 'rpg' actually is. Try to, it's not easy to get people to agree to ana ctual defintion. This is why rpgs are often classified in different genres. I've seen a agme like DA listed as 'adventure', I saw FO:NV listed as action adventure-shooter... It's all irrelevant.

#405
pmp10

pmp10

    (7) Enchanter

  • Members
  • 841 posts

The fact is that it's ahrd to get an agreed upon defintion of what a 'rpg' actually is. Try to, it's not easy to get people to agree to ana ctual defintion. This is why rpgs are often classified in different genres. I've seen a agme like DA listed as 'adventure', I saw FO:NV listed as action adventure-shooter... It's all irrelevant.

No it's not.
That modern games have abused the term to pretend action games have more depth doesn't mean that the essence of what is an RPG experience can be discounted completely.
RPGs were never about levels and XP points but about the way metric were used to describe world and character that shaped your experience.
If your reflexes and manual dexterity played as big a role as those metrics the game was called action-rpgs if they were far more important it was simply an action game.
Analogically tactical-rpgs and strategy games were determined by the weight of your tactical and strategic decisions.
Whatever will RPG mean when devs finally rebrand it is more difficult to ascertain but considering the current trend "there are numbers in it" will likely suffice.

#406
John Lemon

John Lemon

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 66 posts
  • Location:ROU Gunboat Diplomat
  • Backer

You complain I'm dimissing vghchaertz out of hand but so far in this thread you've dismissed multiple people out of hand for daring to laugh at vgchartz. Please don't be a hypocrite. vgchartz is make believe. They don't have hard data. None of us know exactly how much DA2 sold but the difference between us and chartz is we're not seriously making up magical numbers and trying to pretend they're accurate.

I'd love to know where I dismissed people for laughing at VGChartz. As far as I know, I've only dismissed you for posting nonsense.

I'd also like to refer you to

Not that many people take VGChartz seriously, but it's a decent enough general indicator in lieu of NPD figures.

where I already said it's an estimate which I'd compared with Bioware's sales figures and found to be relatively accurate.

#407
Volourn

Volourn

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 15514 posts
  • Location:North Bay, Ontario, Kanada
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
But, BIO's given no sales figure. They posted a very nondescript '1mil+ sales in less than 2 weeks'. That could eman anything from 1,000,001 to 1,000,000,000 (of course that's unlikely just a point) so it means nothing in regards to vghchart's (lack of) accuracy.

Edited by Volourn, 10 April 2011 - 07:42 PM.


#408
John Lemon

John Lemon

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 66 posts
  • Location:ROU Gunboat Diplomat
  • Backer

But, BIO's given no sales figure. They posted a very nondescript '1mil+ sales in less than 2 weeks'. That could eman anything from 1,000,001 to 1,000,000,000 (of course that's unlikely just a point) so it means nothing in regards to vghchart's (lack of) accuracy.

Use your common sense, Bioware would've said "Sold more than 2 million copies" if DA2 had sold more than 2 million copies. Assuming they'd use standard rounding methods, the greatest margin of error you'd get from that announcement is 0.5 million copies. If we take 1.5million (largest deviation) for two week sales, then VGChartz has an accuracy of ~30%.

#409
Orogun01

Orogun01

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2683 posts
  • Location:somewhere over the rainbow

Bah, Humbug...

RPG's have been mainstream since...well FF first was created. Maybe not specifically Western PC RPG's...but RPG video games have been a large chunk in many ways. In fact many credit FFVII as being THE GAME that drove the original Playstation over the brink into popularity, breaking the ice wall it had previously been pushing against but unable to break out of.

Before FFVII there were a ton of JRPGs, that while massively popular on Japan they always came short on the West (story of every JRPG) the RPG market was in fact dominated by JRPGs from 94 to 98.

Action RPG's got their breakout as massively popular when Diablo came out...further exemplified by Diablo II and the slew of games that followed it's lead. I'd say Action RPG's are still highly popular.

Continuing with the timeline of RPGs; the focus switched back to WRPGs because of the advent of 2 major MMOs during 98 (Everquest, Ultima Online) which is what we heraled as the golden age of PC wrpgs.

I think the definition of RPG being used here is a little too narrow. I think RPGs have been mainstream, but gain and fade in how much mainstream they are. I'd actually say they are at a high point of popularity right now as opposed as downhill. Square Enix, Blizzard, BioWare, Bethesda, Atlus, Raven (well...not as much now, but they were) are all pretty big in the RPG scene...even Sega has a few that have come out in the past few years.

They just aren't all turnbased...

We are taking the whole definition of the genre into account here, and the point is whether that popularity it's hurting them or not. Since now it caters to a wider crowd as opposed to previous gens which were confined to lovers of the genre.
Also the companies that you mention were at it's peak 5 years ago when both markets were at their highest. I point out that I am talking about the quality of their products not their popularity.

#410
Oner

Oner

    Loner of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 6922 posts
  • Backer

Use your common sense

Ahahahahahahahaha

#411
Volourn

Volourn

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 15514 posts
  • Location:North Bay, Ontario, Kanada
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
"has an accuracy of ~30%."

Very accurate, indeed! :)

#412
Gromnir

Gromnir

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3908 posts
  • Location:Sleeping in my office.
  • Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
am understanding that the 1.02 patch for da2 were released. however, there appears to be more than a little dissatisfaction with the patch as it did not address any o' the awakenings/dlc import issues.

as usual, be aware that any mods you gots may bork the patch.

http://social.biowar...age/da2-patches

http://social.biowar...index/7048410/1

http://social.biowar...index/7048387/1

maybe we hold off for 1.03 before playing... sometime in may perhaps?

HA! Good Fun!

#413
MrBrown

MrBrown

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 442 posts
  • Location:Finland
It lists some other important bugs fixed, mainly Merril's quest and Isabela's Thumbs Up! Should be enough for people having problems with those.

#414
Nepenthe

Nepenthe

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 4361 posts
  • Location:Office of Special Tactics and Reconnaissance
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
Apparently they had flagged the Awakening/DLC import bugs as non-issues, and only upgraded them in the priority list yesterday. Well, at least there's that fan fix for most of them. ;)

Looks like I'll be waiting a bit longer for my next playthrough...

#415
aries101

aries101

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 258 posts
  • Location:Denmark
It seems to me that this game, DA2, should not have been released 1 months ago, but maybe 1 months from today. Then, we might have had a working game that worked as intended. As for the issues with importing it has been suggested on the bioware forums that Bioware indeed should buy the fan mode mods from the creators, adding them to the credits list. However, I'm not sure this is technically and legally a good idea?

#416
Volourn

Volourn

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 15514 posts
  • Location:North Bay, Ontario, Kanada
  • Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
It's a dumb idea. It was a dumb idea for the Bg series, NWN series, KOTOR series, ME series, and now the DA series. Just dumb, dumb, dumb.

#417
Gfted1

Gfted1

    Moderators

  • Moderators
  • 3381 posts
  • Location:Chicago, IL
  • Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
Its a dumb idea to give mods credit or to use them in the patches? I seem to remember several mods being rolled into patches the last couple of games.

#418
Jaesun

Jaesun

    Fabulous Paladin of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 1905 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA
  • Xbox Gamertag:Kaiija
Laidlaw DR II Interview

Many of the caves and building interiors are repeated, even though the locations are supposed to be different. What kind of limitations necessitated this decision?

In the balance of production, we realized that we had capacity to create and maintain more stories, content, and encounters than we could necessarily create unique levels for, so we made the call to re-use some of the caves and other levels in the interest of providing more sidequests and encounters.


:*

#419
Drudanae

Drudanae

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 6475 posts
  • Location:Absurdistan
Maybe they should just churn out DA 3 as a text-adventure.

#420
Orogun01

Orogun01

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2683 posts
  • Location:somewhere over the rainbow

Laidlaw DR II Interview

Many of the caves and building interiors are repeated, even though the locations are supposed to be different. What kind of limitations necessitated this decision?

In the balance of production, we realized that we had capacity to create and maintain more stories, content, and encounters than we could necessarily create unique levels for, so we made the call to re-use some of the caves and other levels in the interest of providing more sidequests and encounters.


:ermm:

I really don't like that guy.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users