Devoted/Streetfighter - worthwhile?

[MortyTheGobbo]

Now that the patch to un**** Eder's backstory is finally here, I can actually play. I just need to decide on my character's build. I'll be going for a fighter/rogue with a single sword... but the question is subclasses.

 

The Devoted's bonus to a single weapon is tempting. Probably enough to give up axes and pistols I'd otherwise sometimes use. But what about Streetfighter? I'm kind of tempted because of the critical damage bonus, which should play well with high accuracy. But to do that, I need to be bloodied and flanked. And I just don't know how often that'll happen. And without being bloodied or flanked I'll just strike more slowly.

[Witness41920]

If the character you're building is a tank, you can get bloodied and flanked pretty easily, especially if you don't use a shield. 

[MortyTheGobbo]

I'm not really building a tank, which is why I'm not sure if streetfighter is for me. But he would be in the thick of melee. It's just hard to judge this in the early areas.

Edited May 17, 2018 by MortyTheGobbo

[KaiG]

You really sacrifice a ton of damage by going single-weapon with a Fighter/Rogue. Cleave stance gives you a Full Attack when you kill something, so by using one weapon you're practically halving the effect, not to mention all the Full Attack abilities that rogues get.

[Myrtillo]

You really sacrifice a ton of damage by going single-weapon with a Fighter/Rogue. Cleave stance gives you a Full Attack when you kill something, so by using one weapon you're practically halving the effect, not to mention all the Full Attack abilities that rogues get.

 

This is mostly true (even if as you pointed the extra hits and crits from vastly superior acc will help offset that disadvantage), but then again, it's not like you absolutely need all the damage you can find. You will do well with that build in Veteran (not sure about PoTD).

Just use your guile on sap and pernicious cloud rather than spamming cheap full attacks, and take conqueror stance. Fighter's power strike is also a primary attack that would not benefit from dual wield  You will have more fun by playing what you really like.

 

To answer the initial question, I played a streetfighter and he was flanked and bloodied quite often, and sometimes both. And when he did not, well, it means that the fight was easy anyways.

 

What I always say is: Do you need to obliterate even more an ennemy that you would defeat easily, or do you need that extra kick of power when you face real danger ?

Edited May 18, 2018 by Myrtillo

[MortyTheGobbo]

I am not using dual wield. That is non-negotiable. I won't compromise my character idea because the styles are imbalanced.

 

That said, it's true that if I'm not bloodied or flanked, the fight is probably easy anyway. So maybe it's worth a try.

[Witness41920]

If you're determined to go single-weapon and want Fighter/Rogue then I recommend changing your build to Devoted/Assassin if you're going to use Stealth, Devoted/Trickster if you don't mind some magic.

 

The reason for this is when you're not bloodied and flanked then Streetfighter is going to hurt you more than help you and unless you're tanking then it's unreliable.

[MortyTheGobbo]

I can see that, yes. But if I don't go Streetfighter I'll just go straight rogue. I have a good idea what I want to play, it's just a matter of whether Streetfighter will help or hurt it.

Edited May 18, 2018 by MortyTheGobbo

[Witness41920]

I can see that, yes. But if I don't go Streetfighter I'll just go straight rogue. I have a good idea what I want to play, it's just a matter of whether Streetfighter will help or hurt it.

In that case I recommend straight Rogue. Happy hunting!

[Raven Darkholme]

The rogue has so m any full attack abilities it's kind of a waste not going dual wield on even a single class rogue.

I know I mostly repeat what other people already stated here, but going fighter/rogue makes dw even more powerful.

This isn't even related to which subclasses you use, it's just about the guile/discipline abilites being mostly full attacks (except nerfed to hell knockdown), giving you a free offhand attack and fighters cleave/mob-stance doing full attacks when you kill a target.

[Clerith]

If you play as the main tank or only melee character, it's worth it, I'd say. Devoted is just great, Streetfighter works with some playing around it, combined it results in a very effective tank with also great offense.

[MortyTheGobbo]

I'm not playing a tank, so I think I'm settled on straight rogue. Streetfighter might or might not work, so I'll play it safe.

 

And yes, I know dual-wielding is better for rogues and fighters. I don't like that and I won't use it.

[Myrtillo]

I can see that, yes. But if I don't go Streetfighter I'll just go straight rogue. I have a good idea what I want to play, it's just a matter of whether Streetfighter will help or hurt it.

 

I do not understand why some people are answering outside of your question.

With the build you seem to have in mind, I strongly recommend devoted/streetfighter over devoted/rogue.

The passive will help a ton in most cases, and only slightly hurt (20% is not much) in easy battles where it's ok to be slightly less efficient.

 

I hesitated a long time about playing a build very similar to yours, because I enjoy single sword/no-offhand.

I am convinced that it will work well in Veteran (can't tell about PotD since i didn't play it yet). Ultimately the only reason that took me away from it was that I did not want to multiclass so I played a pure streetfighter with rapier and dagger.

As long as you get decent con/res (about 14) and pick some defensive abilities from the fighter, you will be fine in the melee. Get persistent distraction, this is really good on any melee rogue and will give you more relative tankiness and more crits.

As I said before, because people are freaking out about you not dual wielding: You can focus on abilities that do not apply full attacks.

Use conqueror stance. This has a good synergy with streetfighter as you become more durable when bloodied.

Use Sap . Sap is a primary attack so you are not loosing anything by not dual wielding. But honestly the others would still work fine if they appeal to you.

I'm going a bit off topic but I'd be happy to discuss your build idea

[Boeroer]

The stacked crit damage of Devoted + Streetfighter (when "On the Edge") is pretty decent. Also the +50% recovery speed when flanked make single weapon usage worthwhile. The speed difference between dual wielding + Looking for a Fight and single weapon + Looking for a Fight  is not as drastical as one might think.

[MortyTheGobbo]

Interesting. Guess my decision isn't as final as I thought. But I wasn't really planning to focus on constitution that much. I'd like good dexterity and perception for RP reasons. My planned spread was 13/10/16/14/10/14. Or thereabouts, I might be off by a point or two. I could compensate with items and food, perhaps.

[Myrtillo]

Interesting. Guess my decision isn't as final as I thought. But I wasn't really planning to focus on constitution that much. I'd like good dexterity and perception for RP reasons. My planned spread was 13/10/16/14/10/14. Or thereabouts, I might be off by a point or two. I could compensate with items and food, perhaps.

 

I feel you about the RP dex and per, and these stats benefit the build anyways

 

I think this stat distribution would work in Veteran if you focus on defensive food and items early game, and maybe have Xoti casting a CON inspiration. Mid to late game when you start getting good gear and more importantly great defensive abilities from fighter tree, you will not worry about it anymore.

 

If you feel unsure, grab two points out of might to put into CON. Might +dmg% is additive, so you won't loose much damage.

+2 CON is a flat +10% survivability, which is good. Especially for streetfighter, as it gives a better "bloodied health pool". It gives more breathing room when you are bloodied before you start being in serious danger, as you don't want to heal instantly when bloodied. I don't know if I make sense ?

[Boeroer]

There are also items with +maxHealth and that passive "Tough" which will gives you +2 health per level. 

[Myrtillo]

There are also items with +maxHealth and that passive "Tough" which will gives you +2 health per level. 

 

The +max health items are flat health (I saw some at +15 and +25), so their effectiveness gradually drops. But they sure do help a ton until about lvl 6/7.

[Nefarious7]

I tried street fighter and found it to, well, suck in a full party.

 

Like completely suck.

 

The times when my street fighter passives kicked in were like <10% of fighting time.

 

The negatives of street fighter were present >90% of the time.

 

Street fighter might be great in a solo run, or with only one melee character, but in my party which used 3 melee characters, it didn't pay off at all.

 

Instead, I'm doing Devoted / Berzerker and it's really, really good.  Crits and AOE damage galore.

 

The soul bound sword, Modwyr negates the confusion effect you get when in frenzy.  So, if you want a 1h long sword focus, this is a great combo.

[Myrtillo]

I tried street fighter and found it to, well, suck in a full party.

 

Like completely suck.

 

The times when my street fighter passives kicked in were like <10% of fighting time.

 

The negatives of street fighter were present >90% of the time.

 

Street fighter might be great in a solo run, or with only one melee character, but in my party which used 3 melee characters, it didn't pay off at all.

 

Instead, I'm doing Devoted / Berzerker and it's really, really good.  Crits and AOE damage galore.

 

The soul bound sword, Modwyr negates the confusion effect you get when in frenzy.  So, if you want a 1h long sword focus, this is a great combo.

 

On what difficulty ? On what role ?

I played my pure streetfighter in a party of 5, usually with two melee (him and either pallegina or Eder.) When I wanted to bring more melee chars I was switching him to ranged blunderbuss with modal (giving him the first tier of the passive 100% of the time).

Note: he was not using any form of stealth or flanking.

 

On veteran, for the first half of the game, he was bloodied VERY often, and flanked quite often. Second half he was only bloodied and/or flanked on difficult battles, because everything was dying too quickly under his attacks. But it still definitely helped a lot in those difficult battles.

 

If your goal is to use your character as a stealthy flanker, then I agree streetfighter is inefficient. If your goal is to stand in the middle of the melee, then it is the best rogue subclass.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Myrtillo

[MortyTheGobbo]

Hmm. Alright, I think I'm convinced to give Streetfighter a shot. The arguments for it seem to be stronger than those against. We'll see how it goes.

[Crucis]

 

I tried street fighter and found it to, well, suck in a full party.

 

Like completely suck.

 

The times when my street fighter passives kicked in were like <10% of fighting time.

 

The negatives of street fighter were present >90% of the time.

 

Street fighter might be great in a solo run, or with only one melee character, but in my party which used 3 melee characters, it didn't pay off at all.

 

Instead, I'm doing Devoted / Berzerker and it's really, really good.  Crits and AOE damage galore.

 

The soul bound sword, Modwyr negates the confusion effect you get when in frenzy.  So, if you want a 1h long sword focus, this is a great combo.

 

On what difficulty ? On what role ?

I played my pure streetfighter in a party of 5, usually with two melee (him and either pallegina or Eder.) When I wanted to bring more melee chars I was switching him to ranged blunderbuss with modal (giving him the first tier of the passive 100% of the time).

Note: he was not using any form of stealth or flanking.

 

On veteran, for the first half of the game, he was bloodied VERY often, and flanked quite often. Second half he was only bloodied and/or flanked on difficult battles, because everything was dying too quickly under his attacks. But it still definitely helped a lot in those difficult battles.

 

If your goal is to use your character as a stealthy flanker, then I agree streetfighter is inefficient. If your goal is to stand in the middle of the melee, then it is the best rogue subclass.

 

 

Yeah, this seems like a very sound observation.

 

The streetfighter pretty much needs to be in melee to get himself either flanked or bloodied to trigger his subclass abilities.  I'm not that sure that a streetfighter/Fighter(any type) is such a great combo, though if you're wearing light enough armor to not be too well protected, I suppose it could work.  A streetfighter/monk combo might be better, since monks (other than shattered pillar) want to take damage for their wounds, so it seems like there'd be some good synergy there.

 

Assassins seem like they'd be better for the stealthy flankers, while Streetfighters are more the in-your-face melee brawler type.  (Not exactly sure what to make of Tricksters.)

[MortyTheGobbo]

So far it seems to be working well. If my character is neither bloodied or flanked, he's on the slow side, but if he's one or both of those, he starts gibbing enemies. I wonder if I should wear something lighter than chainmail, though.

Edited May 19, 2018 by MortyTheGobbo

[Nefarious7]

POTD as a front line fighter