Chanter: Beckoner or Troubadour for end game?

[Smelyansky]

Hey all. I'm playing a Beckoner/Shieldbearer Pali right now and it's pretty fun but a slow playsyle. I was wondering, for end game which would be more powerful if I am to multiclass with a pali, Beckoner or Troubadour? Troubadour looks really good on paper. Wondering what's actually better. My goal is to be very tanky and solo potd with this. Thank you.

[Braven]

End game, the most powerful ability is the one with brilliance inspiration (available at level 19 for multiclass). It provides power source regeneration every 3 seconds and lasts a really long time, and other buffs too, amounting to increased power level and three stat boosts.

 

Probably will get nerfed eventually since it makes your character invincible. For example, you could just cast lay on hands every 10 seconds or so for complete immunity from death with the shield subclass; maybe use sacred immolation at the same time to passively kill everything around you since you can’t die and still have resource points to spare.

 

Before level 19, you will be relying mostly on summoning and healing yourself. Both of those subclasses should do well. I haven’t tried Beckoner, but it seems like it would be a little better overall for pure summoning. Troubdour is more flexible; you can either do two phrases, faster resummons, or non-summons like that paralyze invocation. At level 19, Troubdour is tecnically better, but who cares... you are already impossible to kill and constantly bursting out massive AOE damage; do you really need summons then? Either can handle the OP invocation.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Braven

[Voltron]

For frontliner - Troubadour is much better. For backline caster- Beaconer if you like summons.

Endgame Troubadour for multi is better as you destroy things much faster than your summons so you may as well support that with some self buffs and offensive invocations. 

Summons are good but they fall short at end-game. At least for multi class since you can go only to lvl VII.

 

Though empowered Drake is still great.

[SamOftheUels]

What Pairs best with Troubadour?

[Ganrich]

Troubadour can work with whatever you like.

 

Is there another class that interests you?

 

Edit: Paladin is a great pairing btw.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Ganrich

[Dongom]

You can't go wrong with either, Both end up stupidly OP for multiple reasons.

 

Stick with the one you find more fun.

[Azalore]

How about MCing druid or priest with Troubadour? Would it work as a main party healer?

[Ganrich]

How about MCing druid or priest with Troubadour? Would it work as a main party healer?

Yes, absolutely.

 

Lifegiver/Troubadour would be pretty insane. When shifted, and with the +100% healing chant... Sounds pretty insane to me.

 

Priest would be a buff/heal machine too.

 

Troubadour is a Subclass that I think works really well to MC with the other caster classes. Particularly wizards, priests, and druids.

 

I could see some Cipher subs not meshing well, but I think you could get something functional. They just may bloom a little later than the others. I dunno. I havent tried Cipher much.

[Killyox]

Tbh I am playing POTD without brilliance (OP skill) and it still got to a point where i can do an auto pilot for a fight

[Gary1986]

For the Troubadour subclass what is the need for Brisk Recitation? Why would you want to remove the linger?

 

Cheers

Edited May 21, 2018 by Gary1986

[Ganrich]

For the Troubadour subclass what is the need for Brisk Recitation? Why would you want to remove the linger?

 

Cheers

Chant time goes from 6 seconds plus linger to 3 seconds no linger with BR on. So, it helps generate phrases faster to cast more Invocations. The trade off is no linger. Troubadour can more consistently cast high level inspirations with BR on than any other Chanter. It isnt rng dependent like skald, and doesn't have an increase to cost for non-Offensive Inspirations or summons like Skald either.

[Gary1986]

 

For the Troubadour subclass what is the need for Brisk Recitation? Why would you want to remove the linger?

 

Cheers

Chant time goes from 6 seconds plus linger to 3 seconds no linger with BR on. So, it helps generate phrases faster to cast more Invocations. The trade off is no linger. Troubadour can more consistently cast high level inspirations with BR on than any other Chanter. It isnt rng dependent like skald, and doesn't have an increase to cost for non-Offensive Inspirations or summons like Skald either.

Cheers.

 

A little off topic, but Chanters can pick/get a passive that says "casts spells 10% faster" or something, I was wondering if that applies to invocations?

 

Also is phantom and it's upgrade a decent summon to have handy?

Edited May 21, 2018 by Gary1986

[Ganrich]

I haven't picked it up on my playthroughs yet, but it does work with Invocations.

 

Phantom is ok. Most people prefer skeletons, but afaik neither scales too well at high level. However, skeletons summons 3 on Troubadour and 6 on Beckoner. More fodder between you and the enemy. So, it might be somewbat useful later.

 

Nothing at first level scales particularly well tbh. Save maybe the buffs. This is the case on PotD difficulty anyway. At any lower difficulty they will be fine at higher level.

[Gary1986]

I haven't picked it up on my playthroughs yet, but it does work with Invocations.

 

Phantom is ok. Most people prefer skeletons, but afaik neither scales too well at high level. However, skeletons summons 3 on Troubadour and 6 on Beckoner. More fodder between you and the enemy. So, it might be somewbat useful later.

 

Nothing at first level scales particularly well tbh. Save maybe the buffs. This is the case on PotD difficulty anyway. At any lower difficulty they will be fine at higher level.

Cheers for the responses.

 

At the moment I'm playing a Skald and I rely on my offensive invocations. I'm enjoying it a lot at the moment. I am however looking to invest in a lower summon,so are 3 skeletons and its upgrade just generally more of a better choice than phantom and it's upgrade?

[baldurs_gate_2]

 

 

For the Troubadour subclass what is the need for Brisk Recitation? Why would you want to remove the linger?

 

Cheers

Chant time goes from 6 seconds plus linger to 3 seconds no linger with BR on. So, it helps generate phrases faster to cast more Invocations. The trade off is no linger. Troubadour can more consistently cast high level inspirations with BR on than any other Chanter. It isnt rng dependent like skald, and doesn't have an increase to cost for non-Offensive Inspirations or summons like Skald either.

Cheers.

 

A little off topic, but Chanters can pick/get a passive that says "casts spells 10% faster" or something, I was wondering if that applies to invocations?

 

Also is phantom and it's upgrade a decent summon to have handy?

 

There should be a passive ability, what let's you summon 15% faster. But thats only the cast time what you need for summons.

[Ganrich]

Only because they are better meat shields regardless of your level. If you aren't playing on Path of the Damned then I wouldnt worry. Any summon will work well enough.

[Gary1986]

Quick question for anybody.

 

When you upgrade the summon wurms, are you suppose to still be able to summon the wurms without the upgrade as well as the upgraded wurms as a separate invocation? Or is this a bug?

 

Cheers

[Ganrich]

Yes. The upgrade just makes them more powerful. You still summon them.

[Tommy1984]

Yes. The upgrade just makes them more powerful. You still summon them.

 

And the upgrade makes them also more expensive. After the upgrade the wurms need 1 more phrase. This is the only summon upgrade that makes the summon more expensive, for all other summon uprades (skeletons, shadow, ogres, drake, wisps, plant, weapons) the cost remains the same.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Tommy1984

[baldurs_gate_2]

Well, for solo play i recommend troubador. I don't think you can keep the summons up all the time as beckoner.

[ppscurry]

I wonder where people in this forum keep getting the false idea that beckoners can't keep up their summons. Are you guys running 3 INT or something? Even without the resource generating invocation, you can easily keep up your summons unless you pick something fragile. With that resource generating invocation, you have too much phrases instead. Without it, you can't cast anything else but honestly chanter invocations aren't that great compared to their summons. With just one cast of ancient weapons on a beckoner, I can force a phase change on the final boss in potd solo while afking in a corner. If I wanted to, I can just stand far away and watch my summons solo the game.

 

Troubadour sounds a lot more fun though so I would recommend that as well. Beckoner is just too strong and honestly braindead.

Edited May 22, 2018 by ppscurry

[baldurs_gate_2]

I wonder where people in this forum keep getting the false idea that beckoners can't keep up their summons. Are you guys running 3 INT or something? Even without the resource generating invocation, you can easily keep up your summons unless you pick something fragile. With that resource generating invocation, you have too much phrases instead. Without it, you can't cast anything else but honestly chanter invocations aren't that great compared to their summons. With just one cast of ancient weapons on a beckoner, I can force a phase change on the final boss in potd solo while afking in a corner. If I wanted to, I can just stand far away and watch my summons solo the game.

 

Troubadour sounds a lot more fun though so I would recommend that as well. Beckoner is just too strong and honestly braindead.

How long lasts the Level 9 Dragon? With my Troubador and 2x Int it lasts ~40 seconds. But the beckoner gets -33% duration, so 27 seconds. He needs one phrase less for summons, but needs 6 seconds for each phrase. So even with 6 phrases, he needs 36 seconds +4 - 6 seconds casting time to summon a new one.

[Tommy1984]

 

I wonder where people in this forum keep getting the false idea that beckoners can't keep up their summons. Are you guys running 3 INT or something? Even without the resource generating invocation, you can easily keep up your summons unless you pick something fragile. With that resource generating invocation, you have too much phrases instead. Without it, you can't cast anything else but honestly chanter invocations aren't that great compared to their summons. With just one cast of ancient weapons on a beckoner, I can force a phase change on the final boss in potd solo while afking in a corner. If I wanted to, I can just stand far away and watch my summons solo the game.

 

Troubadour sounds a lot more fun though so I would recommend that as well. Beckoner is just too strong and honestly braindead.

How long lasts the Level 9 Dragon? With my Troubador and 2x Int it lasts ~40 seconds. But the beckoner gets -33% duration, so 27 seconds. He needs one phrase less for summons, but needs 6 seconds for each phrase. So even with 6 phrases, he needs 36 seconds +4 - 6 seconds casting time to summon a new one.

 

 

I haven't tested the dragon, but most summons have the same base duration. My Beckoner with 2x INT currently has around 33-35 seconds duration on the higher summons. So I'm not sure if the Beckoner duration penality is additive or multiplicative with the INT bonus and the power level bonuses. But for the dragon I need to substract the power level bonuses anyway. I think the Beckoner can only use the dragon fully if the enchantment on Sasha's Singing Scimitar is fixed - on empowering you should get your empower point and 3 phrases back. So with this item you can infinitly get +50% duration from empowering and some sort of cost discount of 3 phrases. But the weapon is currently bugged as the bonus works only once.

[L4wlight]

Chant time goes from 6 seconds plus linger to 3 seconds no linger with BR on. So, it helps generate phrases faster to cast more Invocations. The trade off is no linger. Troubadour can more consistently cast high level inspirations with BR on than any other Chanter. It isnt rng dependent like skald, and doesn't have an increase to cost for non-Offensive Inspirations or summons like Skald either.

Please don't forget that the Troubadour has an increased cost for ALL invocations though and needs two more phrases to cast offensive invocations compared to the Skald. For non-offensive invocations and summons the resource cost is actually the same.

[JerekKruger]

Please don't forget that the Troubadour has an increased cost for ALL invocations though and needs two more phrases to cast offensive invocations compared to the Skald. For non-offensive invocations and summons the resource cost is actually the same.

With Brisk Recitation I think the Troubadour can cast invocations faster than the Skald unless they cost 2 phrases. In this case they cost 1 for the Skald, so they can cast them every six seconds, whereas they cost 3 for the Troubadour, so they can cast them every nine seconds. Once you hit a base cost of 3 phrases the two are equal (2*6 = 4*3) and beyond that the Troubadour can outcast the Skald.

 

For non-offensive invocations a Troubadour using Brisk Recitation is faster across the board I believe (I don't think there are any invocations that cost 1 Phrase).