Politics' Official Eighteenth Thread

[Bartimaeus]

Apparently that was a screw up as the DPRK officer saluted, Trump went to shake hands and then they switched approaches.   Well either that or a DPRK scheme to dupe Trump

It's pretty silly that gaffes like this salute seem to always get an inane amount of coverage while clearly deliberately awful and/or dishonest actions and words are just another Monday. ...And in this administration, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday as well, .

[Malcador]

Sessions quoting Romans for any reason is pretty funny. This bible quote is pretty laughable to take seriously, anyway

 

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

[Elerond]

 

Your spam doesn't change the simple fact that the Korean war did not end in 1953 so why did you bother writing some spam to counter what I wrote when it doesn't dispute what I wrote.

Well if you'd like to be pedantic the commonly accepted "end" to the Great War was 11 November 1918, or the day the armistice went into effect. The actual peace treaty would be signed in June of 1919, and fully put into effect the following year.

Also people commonly say that WW2 ended in 1945, even though the Paris Peace Treaties weren't signed until February 10 1947.

 

Also one could argue because Finland and Germany never signed treaty to end war between them that WW2 is still ongoing

Edited June 14, 2018 by Elerond

[injurai]

 

 

Your spam doesn't change the simple fact that the Korean war did not end in 1953 so why did you bother writing some spam to counter what I wrote when it doesn't dispute what I wrote.

Well if you'd like to be pedantic the commonly accepted "end" to the Great War was 11 November 1918, or the day the armistice went into effect. The actual peace treaty would be signed in June of 1919, and fully put into effect the following year.

Also people commonly say that WW2 ended in 1945, even though the Paris Peace Treaties weren't signed until February 10 1947.

 

 

There are different types of victories in war, and different parts end at different times. I don't think a soldier sees a piece of paper as the end, if history tells us anything it's the start of the next war.

[smjjames]

Sessions quoting Romans for any reason is pretty funny. This bible quote is pretty laughable to take seriously, anyway

 

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

 

 

People using the bible to justify things is nothing new unfortunately, and it comes off as trying to make an excuse when they can't find a legal one. When I saw that this morning, I was like 'what the hell in the bible justifies separating children from parents?'

[Hurlshort]

Well we all know that the bible says politics are more important than religion.

[Zoraptor]

I've always wondered how Saul got to be so prominent in the Bible, it's almost always him who gets quoted when Jesus has said something inconvenient like 'do unto others', 'render unto Caesar', 'judge not lest ye be judged' etc.

 

And when it's not him it's almost always Revelations instead. Shame they didn't cut that book at Nicaea, since it was pretty close to going iirc. Would have cut out a lot of the current stupidity in the Middle East if it had.

[Bartimaeus]

Yep. Poor authenticity and rather insane, IIRC the Eastern church did end up rejecting it, and so Greek Orthodox bibles have never included it to begin with.

[BruceVC]

 

 

are you tired of winning yet??

 

Is this the same type of fake news as with fish feeding in Japan?

 

It all depends on how you define " fake news " 

 

If you consider this photo fake news that would mean you reject 100% real and proven events and developments .....in this case even the WH accepts this saluting as real. But you can  believe what you want, thats the beauty of freedom of thought 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2018/06/14/north-korea-state-media-airs-unseen-video-trump-salute-general.cnn

Edited June 15, 2018 by BruceVC

[Malcador]

I've always wondered how Saul got to be so prominent in the Bible, it's almost always him who gets quoted when Jesus has said something inconvenient like 'do unto others', 'render unto Caesar', 'judge not lest ye be judged' etc.

 

And when it's not him it's almost always Revelations instead. Shame they didn't cut that book at Nicaea, since it was pretty close to going iirc. Would have cut out a lot of the current stupidity in the Middle East if it had.

 

Catholics dig marketing, I guess.

[Hurlshort]

 

Is this the same type of fake news as with fish feeding in Japan?

 

 

Hah, I'm pretty sure you had a conniption when Obama bowed to people, but you call this fake news.  Beautiful. 

[Gfted1]

I wouldnt equate bowing with hand shaking / saluting but that would ruin a good zinger I guess.

[HoonDing]

Who wouldn't bow for Trump tbh; he's a tough guy

[smjjames]

I've always wondered how Saul got to be so prominent in the Bible, it's almost always him who gets quoted when Jesus has said something inconvenient like 'do unto others', 'render unto Caesar', 'judge not lest ye be judged' etc.

 

And when it's not him it's almost always Revelations instead. Shame they didn't cut that book at Nicaea, since it was pretty close to going iirc. Would have cut out a lot of the current stupidity in the Middle East if it had.

 

I don't see how it would have cut out a lot of the stupidity, it wouldn't have affected the schism early Islam had, for one.

[Gromnir]

I wouldnt equate bowing with hand shaking / saluting but that would ruin a good zinger I guess.

odd.  we wouldn't equate hand shaking with bowing/saluting.  to us, bow and salute is similar as is typical signs o' respect and/or difference.  fail to hand shake when proffered makes one a schmuck.  fail to salute or bow when is appropriate is possible insubordinate.  'course our interpretation ruins gifted's zinger, so...

 

HA! Good Fun!

[smjjames]

 

 

Is this the same type of fake news as with fish feeding in Japan?

Hah, I'm pretty sure you had a conniption when Obama bowed to people, but you call this fake news. Beautiful.

I didn't call it anything. I asked a question.

 

 

 

Considering that NK is the one who filmed it and released it in entirety (no US news outlet, not even Fox, filmed it), is it fake news?

Edited June 15, 2018 by smjjames

[Bartimaeus]

Trump's campaign manager Paul Manafort was sent to jail today for witness tampering-related charges - his other current charges are conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading FARA (Foreign Agents Registration Act) statements, false statements (separate occasion).

[Gfted1]

Poor, poor FBI, looks like they did have an agenda against Trump. You would think they would be able to destroy those files at least as efficiently as Clinton.

[Bartimaeus]

What're you talking about?

[Gfted1]

What're you talking about?

 

Top Agent Said F.B.I. Would Stop Trump From Becoming President.

[Gromnir]

Trump's campaign manager Paul Manafort was sent to jail today for witness tampering-related charges - his other current charges are conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading FARA (Foreign Agents Registration Act) statements, false statements (separate occasion).

 

once probable cause were found in support o' witness tampering, bail were gonna be revoked unless could be shown to a certainty Manafort posed no flight risk or danger to the public. woulda' been genuine shocked if bail were not revoked.  need also remind some folks jail is not same as prison.  Manafort's incarceration ain't due to finding o' guilt on any charge.  is pre-trial incarceration 'cause is probable cause to believe the defendant violated terms o' his house arrest.  

 

as to the weird reading o' the ig report by both democrats and republicans, am admitted not surprised, but nevertheless disappointed.  really nothing monumental comes from the report, though am admitted only 1/3 through. were already known/admitted comey went 'gainst chain o' command to release info regarding the investigation.  comey's reasoning for insubordination is debatable, but after the tarmac meeting 'tween Clinton and Lynch, comey concerns were understandable even if you thinks he acted inappropriate. also, is hardly surprising there were folks in the fbi who disliked candidate trump and hoped he would not be elected President.  *insert feigned surprise here* dumb o' such folks to include their obvious distaste for trump in an email while investigating Clinton, but hardly monumental news. more important, the report vindicated the fbi investigation o' Clinton, revealing the there were no politicization which affected the findings o' the investigation, and the report made clear charges would not have been level'd 'gainst Clinton by any ordinary prosecutor.   nevertheless, we talk to hardcore democrats and they see report as proof comey ruined the election for Clinton.  hear republicans and they see vindication o' deep state.  weird.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Hurlshort]

I didn't call it anything. I asked a question. I thought a teacher would know the difference. I think it's been a while but I have to say again that I feel sorry for your students.

My apologies if I misunderstood you.

[Bartimaeus]

 

What're you talking about?

 

Top Agent Said F.B.I. Would Stop Trump From Becoming President.

 

Yeah, that guy's a clown. Mueller kicked him off of his Russian investigation for exactly that reason. Also, while it's true that Strzok was a dummy with issues of impartiality, the actual FBI Director (Comey) nevertheless came out on the opposite end by making the Clinton investigation as public as possible while making the Trump investigation as secret as possible, so that doesn't really match up with the idea that the FBI was in it for Clinton.

 

as to the weird reading o' the ig report by both democrats and republicans, am admitted not surprised, but nevertheless disappointed. really nothing monumental comes from the report, though am admitted only 1/3 through. were already known/admitted comey went 'gainst chain o' command to release info regarding the investigation. comey's reasoning for insubordination is debatable, but after the tarmac meeting 'tween Clinton and Lynch, comey concerns were understandable even if you thinks he acted inappropriate. also, is hardly surprising there were folks in the fbi who disliked candidate trump and hoped he would not be elected President. *insert feigned surprise here* dumb o' such folks to include their obvious distaste for trump in an email while investigating Clinton, but hardly monumental news. more important, the report vindicated the fbi investigation o' Clinton, revealing the there were no politicization which affected the findings o' the investigation, and the report made clear charges would not have been level'd 'gainst Clinton by any ordinary prosecutor. nevertheless, we talk to hardcore democrats and they see report as proof comey ruined the election for Clinton. hear republicans and they see vindication o' deep state. weird.

 

HA! Good Fun!

I think he did the best he could in impossible circumstances. He had a duty to report his findings to the Congress intelligence committees, the Republican members of which (especially in the House) kept immediately running to the press and leaking favorable lines and tainting the investigation and causing an appearance of impropriety on the part of the FBI. So he tried to get ahead of it by going straight to the public (especially as a result of a compromised and non-recusing AG)...which may have had the effect of throwing the election in favor of Trump when he was forced to announce the investigation's re-opening days before the election, when all he was trying to do was maintain the integrity of the FBI. There wasn't a good solution, so he just took the one that was (I think) the most consistent and honest. Fair enough, I says.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[Gromnir]

 

I think he did the best he could in impossible circumstances. He had a duty to report his findings to the Congress intelligence committees, the Republican members of which (especially in the House) kept immediately running to the press and leaking favorable lines and tainting the investigation and causing an appearance of impropriety on the part of the FBI. So he tried to get ahead of it by going straight to the public (especially as a result of a compromised and non-recusing AG)...which may have had the effect of throwing the election in favor of Trump when he was forced to announce the investigation's re-opening days before the election, when all he was trying to do was maintain the integrity of the FBI. There wasn't a good solution, so he just took the one that was (I think) the most consistent and honest. Fair enough, I says.

 

 

comey overstepped his authority.  as such, am understanding the ig findings as am reading.  shouldn't have been comey making the decisions he were making.  didn't actual have authority to make such decisions. even so, on multiple levels, lynch appeared to be compromised.  woulda' been far easier for comey to do nothing and let the ag handle any public disclosures regarding the clinton investigation.  am doubting Gromnir woulda' done as did comey, but our reasoning woulda' been based on practical career concerns. comey made the choice more likely to put himself in crosshairs o' eventual political machinations.  is unlikely we would willingly make our self a target as did comey.  that said, when the weiner emails were discovered...

 

investigators had been looking for the proverbial smoking gun in the clinton investigation, and the obvious candidate for such evidence were the thousands o' deleted emails.  when the weiner computer emails were dumped into the fbi's lap short before the election, it looked as if investigators had their smoking gun.  unfortunate, were many thousands o' emails. certainty before election seemed impossible.  

 

disclose and possible swing election.

 

don't disclose and make seem as if the fbi were hiding smoking gun evidence to protect clinton.

 

am sympathizing with comey, but he did violate chain o' command.

 

*shrug*

 

regardless, the significant findings o' the ig report is being large ignored by folks at both extreme ends o' the political spectrum.  ig says comey conclusions as to the possibility o' charges being level'd 'gaisnt clinton were correct.  ig says regardless o' the assjackery o' a few fbi folks, the investigation o' clinton were not tainted or politicized.  the rest is providing for interesting reading for those wanting to expound their personal conspiracy theories, but the significant findings o' the report leave us exact where we were before the findings were released.

 

as an aside, can you imagine if the work emails o' every fed employee were searched for anti-trump and anti-clinton comments during the election year?  sure, most folks who opined how a clinton or trump Presidency need be stopped were not working on an investigation o' a Presidential candidate, so am not suggesting strzok comments were innocuous.  most folks speaking o' preventing clinton or trump from being elected were no doubt talking 'bout getting out and voting and encouraging fence-sitters to choose the "right" candidate.  investigating a candidate for President is different.  but again, while strzok comments is getting headlines, the ig findings show no actual politicization o' the investigation... and the strzok comments is actual an incredible small portion o' overall findings. 

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Zoraptor]

 

I've always wondered how Saul got to be so prominent in the Bible, it's almost always him who gets quoted when Jesus has said something inconvenient like 'do unto others', 'render unto Caesar', 'judge not lest ye be judged' etc.

 

And when it's not him it's almost always Revelations instead. Shame they didn't cut that book at Nicaea, since it was pretty close to going iirc. Would have cut out a lot of the current stupidity in the Middle East if it had.

 

I don't see how it would have cut out a lot of the stupidity, it wouldn't have affected the schism early Islam had, for one.

 

 

Much of the unrestrained US support for Israel comes from Evangelicals and Born Agains reading Revelations and deciding that Israel has to exist and be as douchey as possible so the Temple can be rebuilt, you can get a massive war where everyone else can die horribly and go to hell (including, of course, all the Jews/ Israelis they supposedly support) while they get swept up to heaven.

 

It wouldn't heal the rift in Islam, but if you start from the belief that you want to trigger Armageddon then you can also justify all sorts of things like supporting ludicrous takfiri Wahhabis trying to trigger genocidal religious wars against shia because, well, if the war you trigger is large enough you get to go to heaven at the end of it.

 

Which is about as un Christian in the Jesus sense as you can get, but then most of them seem to regard Jesus as a commie (rich men and eye of needle? sounds like Marx to me) to be ignored.