Your Tiers List [Classes/Subclasses] v.2

[divjak]

 

snip

 

  

 

 

well, its not hard to find items with resistance to intellect afflictions, so confusion issue becomes irrelevant, or multiclassing with fighter, there is a passive for that 

 

Have you tested this?  I think this confusion is hardcoded.  

 

I gave my Berserker both immunity and resistance to intellect afflictions via various sources and noticed that he was still carnaging my allies...

 

i think it should work, havent  tested it, but thats how game mechanics works, also i was trying wizard barb, and infuse with vital essence that gave smart, negated confusion, so that worked.

Resistance to afflictions scale down one level of  that affliction, and confuse is level 1 affliction, so it should put it to 0, that should cancel it

Edited May 16, 2018 by divjak

[divjak]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

what do you mean by level scaling has it alone?

 

Doesn't level scaling means that mobs scale to your current level

 

You add accuracy to your roll and reduce the score by enemy deflection, so  that means you just need to roll higher, but i think if just boosting stats to make game harder, is a lapproachoach

 

 

Currently level scaling is broken. It does not work whether you click it on or not. On the beta it does work.

 

Think most min maxers will probably run level scaling (otherwise the guy gets boring easy like it does now).

 

So just by that alone the game will be harder once this patch comes out this week.

 

The patch after that is when they will scale up the difficulty of PotD.

 

Just from playing on the beta patch I can feel the extra stats on scaled up mobs.

 

It feels like there will be a significant boost in enemies defences.

 

I dont think level scaling makes game harder, actually if put to scale all, it arguably makes game easier, its basically  like in vanilla skyrim, everyone is at your level, you could go into area that is hard in vanilla, and monsters there would be scaled down.

 

If for instance you would do quests and battles without level scaling in such way that you do them at right time  and  sequence that match your current level, it would be the same as  if you had level  scaling on 

 

Level scaling is for people who wont to  have constant difficulty that matches their level while going in places they whish to go, more sandboxy, and only scale up is for people  who missed some  fights at low level, and to not make them trivial later on  

 

 

But it will be harder then now because if you do a lot of side content you will 100% outlevel content and there is no way to scale it up.

 

How many people know the 'correct' event order now? Hardly anyone I would say.

 

well, isnt it the point to make game harder?

If you leave out level scaling from  your game, then you get skulls on sword, and thats how you know if something is  at yours or level(s) lower, so lets say you  watch when the skull pops after level up, then you know that now thats scaled on your level, without level scaling  

Edited May 16, 2018 by divjak

[M4xw0lf]

I have fully upgraded Modwyr on slot 2 to counter my Berserker's confusion. Simply switch to Modwyr at any point during frenzy and confusion is gone and stays that way when I switch back to Whispers of the endless paths (its aoe cone always has a friendly fire zone though, mind!).

[Maxzero]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

what do you mean by level scaling has it alone?

 

Doesn't level scaling means that mobs scale to your current level

 

You add accuracy to your roll and reduce the score by enemy deflection, so  that means you just need to roll higher, but i think if just boosting stats to make game harder, is a lapproachoach

 

 

Currently level scaling is broken. It does not work whether you click it on or not. On the beta it does work.

 

Think most min maxers will probably run level scaling (otherwise the guy gets boring easy like it does now).

 

So just by that alone the game will be harder once this patch comes out this week.

 

The patch after that is when they will scale up the difficulty of PotD.

 

Just from playing on the beta patch I can feel the extra stats on scaled up mobs.

 

It feels like there will be a significant boost in enemies defences.

 

I dont think level scaling makes game harder, actually if put to scale all, it arguably makes game easier, its basically  like in vanilla skyrim, everyone is at your level, you could go into area that is hard in vanilla, and monsters there would be scaled down.

 

If for instance you would do quests and battles without level scaling in such way that you do them at right time  and  sequence that match your current level, it would be the same as  if you had level  scaling on 

 

Level scaling is for people who wont to  have constant difficulty that matches their level while going in places they whish to go, more sandboxy, and only scale up is for people  who missed some  fights at low level, and to not make them trivial later on  

 

 

But it will be harder then now because if you do a lot of side content you will 100% outlevel content and there is no way to scale it up.

 

How many people know the 'correct' event order now? Hardly anyone I would say.

 

well, isnt it the point to make game harder?

If you leave out level scaling from  your game, then you get skulls on sword, and thats how you know if something is  at yours or level(s) lower, so lets say you  watch when the skull pops after level up, then you know that now thats scaled on your level, without level scaling  

 

 

Well yes so won't builds have to change to deal with the higher difficulty? Or do you plan on playing the same builds forever?

[Voltron]

A) FUN. What Classes/Subclasses are fun to play ? Not fun at all ? Chanter is super fun to play, same as Chipher and Druid. Sadly only Chanter is strong, while Cipher and Druid needs some tweaks.

 

B) EFFECTIVENESS. What classes/subclasses are enough Powerful, too much powerful, not enough powerful ? Enough Powerful- Paladin, but needs little more buffs and Immolation fix, Rogue, Chanter, Barbarian (though Mage Slayer needs something more), Priest (one skill is OP only). Too much powerful- Pure Monk, Fighter, Wizard. Not Enough powerful- Cipher, Cipher, Cipher, Druid, Ranger.

 

C) SUBCLASSES BALANCING. What penalties discourage you to take the class / are too strong compared to bonus ? Beaconer needs some penalty, Helwalker needs his penalty reduced, B-something subclass for Cipher needs something more, Mage Slayer needs something more. Too strong- I don't think some subclasses are too strong, rather Level VII-IX abilities being unbalanced (not all) and scalling in game being broken in end-game.

 

D) CREATIVE BACKGROUND. What are concepts that you like / Dislike ? (Not to mention the raw power of the class) - All Ideas are kind of ok, I just don't like so far two- Nalpezca from Monk, as you are limited to half/end game where you can craft enough drugs to use that subclass to full and Soul Blade which basicelly makes you take Cipher only to spam ONE ability all the time, pretty much making you not enjoy Cipher as a whole at all, as SA eats whole focus and it's a main thing for this sub.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Voltron

[divjak]

well no, if your build is good that you breeze trough POTD right now, it should be good with harder game, and if your build suck right now, then good luck :D

 

Its only a problem if they unbalance the game to the scale, in such way that you are for example mandatory to have a priest and devotions buff all the time.

 

 

I think that only boosting defences is a lazy approach that  will make you characters feel more neutered, rather than that, i would like to see better enemy AI, so rather than all your crap missing, your enemies  spend resources to counter your abilities, like interupts that you waste your cast, more of suspend afflictions, arcane dampeners, concussive tranqs, and such, trading resource for resource to counter your combos.

Then some broken stuff for  you  stops  working, lets say if wizard places arcane dampener on my Nalpazca monk then I am screwed if I stay in a fight, and need to work around it

[Camonge]

A) FUN. 

Chanters, specially troubadours, are very fun to play.  Wizards are always cool.

Ranger is the most boring class. Nothing to do here.

 

 

B) EFFECTIVENESS.

I think every class is strong enough. Martial classes are stronger overall but thats an encounter design issue to be fixed (too few mobs). Some classes are weaker initially but do get stronger later (cipher and druid have a plethora of weakling low level spells), while rangers have no use for high levels. I agree monks and chanters are asking for a nerf hammer. Paladin's defense boost is also too strong atm.

 

C) SUBCLASSES BALANCING. 

Corspe eater. Such a cool concept, such a bad trade-off. Beguilers and illusionists are lacking. While troubadours can pretty much turn their weakness into a boon.

 

D) CREATIVE BACKGROUND

Swashbuckler is such a great interrupter, and thats what he should be. Goldpact/Berath templar is as awesome as it was discussed before in these forums: defender, striker, support and crowd control in a single char. Battlemage is great at improving wizards accuracy.

[theBalthazar]

Atm I need to test more all classes to give my full tiers list, but I can start by this :

 

WISH LIST

 

Barbarian

Wild sprint, 6s TO 8s

Lion sprint, "next attack trigger only" TO all attacks during the time of ability.

Spirit frenzy, supress malus deflection and rage cost 1

Spirit tornado, Ice damage to activation TO ice damage every 6s (The minimum for 2 rage cost and an active ability...)

Blood frenzy, damage overtime on crit TO on HIT.

All shouts, recovery time of 3s against 4s actually.

Crushing blow, to avoid same effect with blood thirst AND Blood lust (!)  : change effect to +25 % of crush damage.

 

Chanter

Set to their purpose, 30s TO 20s, every3s TO every6s for the brilliant inspiration.

Mercy and kindness, 100% to 75 %

 

Druid

Supress THIS delay after spiritshift. (attack immediatly after transformation)

Relentless storm, Stunned duration 2s TO 3s (always every 6s of trigger)

Nature's Balm, 0.5s TO 3s casting time.

 

Fighter

Disciplined strike, 25 hit to crit TO 30 hit to crit.

Weapon mastery, 5 % TO 10 %

 

Monk

Blade turning, 3s TO 2s

Swift flurry, 33 % TO 40 % (triggering).

 

Paladin

Exalted focus, 5 % TO 10 %

Exalted charge, 10 % TO 15 %

Sacred immolation, self43 to self23.

Abjuration, cost 4 TO cost 2

Deep faith, base10 to base8.

 

Priest

All single target inspiration TO AoE inspiration

Spark the souls, line 8 TO line 7

Devotion of the faithful, accuracy 20 TO 15.

Barring death door's, 10s TO 8s.

 

Ranger

Concussive shot, add a 15 % of crush damage.

Slightly more damage of the pet.

Break "link" between protective and stalker link.

 

Rogue

Withering strike, 3 guile TO 2 guile

Shadowing beyond, 3 guile TO 2 guile

Flurry of blades, 6s paralysed TO 9s paralysed.

Blinding strike, 2 guile TO 1 guile

Strike the bell, 2 guile TO 1 guile

Defensive roll, 2s TO 3s

Dirty fighting, 10% TO 15%

Sap, 2 guile TO 1 guile

 

Wizard

Essential and substential phantom, 6s TO 5s casting time.

Gaze of the adragan, 4.5s to 3s casting time.

Deleterious alacrity, add a -10 % of recovery time.

Edited May 17, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Maxzero]

Atm I need to test more all classes to give my full tiers list, but I can start by this :

 

WISH LIST

 

Barbarian

Wild sprint, 6s TO 8s

Lion sprint, "next attack trigger only" TO all attacks during the time of ability.

Spirit frenzy, supress malus deflection and rage cost 1

Spirit tornado, Ice damage to activation TO ice damage every 6s (The minimum for 2 rage cost and an active ability...)

Blood frenzy, damage overtime on crit TO on HIT.

All shouts, recovery time of 3s against 4s actually.

Crushing blow, to avoid same effect with blood thirst AND Blood lust (!)  : change effect to +25 % of crush damage.

 

Chanter

Set to their purpose, 30s TO 20s, 3s TO 6s for the brilliant inspiration.

Mercy and kindness, 100% to 75 %

 

Druid

Supress THIS delay after spiritshift. (attack immediatly after transformation)

Relentless storm, Stunned duration 2s TO 3s (always every 6s of trigger)

Nature's Balm, 0.5s TO 3s casting time.

 

Fighter

Disciplined strike, 25 hit to crit TO 30 hit to crit.

Weapon mastery, 5 % TO 10 %

 

Monk

Blade turning, 3s TO 2s

Swift flurry, 33 % TO 40 % (triggering).

 

Paladin

Exalted focus, 5 % TO 10 %

Exalted charge, 10 % TO 15 %

Sacred immolation, self43 to self23.

Abjuration, cost 4 TO cost 2

Deep faith, base10 to base8.

 

Priest

All single target inspiration TO AoE inspiration

Spark the souls, line 8 TO line 7

Devotion of the faithful, accuracy 20 TO 15.

Barring death door's, 10s TO 8s.

 

Ranger

Concussive shot, add a 15 % of crush damage.

Slightly more damage of the pet.

Break "link" between protective and stalker link.

 

Rogue

Withering strike, 3 guile TO 2 guile

Shadowing beyond, 3 guile TO 2 guile

Flurry of blades, 6s paralysed TO 9s paralysed.

Blinding strike, 2 guile TO 1 guile

Strike the bell, 2 guile TO 1 guile

Defensive roll, 2s TO 3s

Dirty fighting, 10% TO 15%

Sap, 2 guile TO 1 guile

 

Wizard

Essential and substential phantom, 6s TO 5s casting time.

Gaze of the adragan, 4.5s to 3s casting time.

Deleterious alacrity, add a -10 % of recovery time.

 

Most fairly minor but a buff to Swift Flurry is so not happening.

 

The Chanter nerfs seem more about multi classing then anything else.

 

The Wizard changes seem random.

 

Before messing with the spells I would rather Priest, Paladin, Ranger and Wizard subclasses get looked at. Clean up the framework first then see how spells fit in there.

[aweigh0101]

Is Evoker the de-facto best damage-dealing/enemy defeating Wizard sub-class?

There's a mod on Nexus that makes Soul Annihilation use half focus instead of all of it: does that break the class? (Make it too OP)

Does it seem like all 3 of the Barbarian sub-classes are either not worth it, or require too much micro to be worth it, and thus the class is better "plain"?

Since you can multi-class companions to whatever classes you want using the UnityConsole mod from the Nexus (works 100%), I've been trying to decide on which class-combos I'll make each companion while still SORT OF fitting within their personality:

- Gonna make Eder a Fighter/Barb (Either Devoted Fighter or Unbroken Fighter + plain Barb) and have him Sword and Board.
- Gonna make Xoti either a Priest/Chanter or a Monk/Cipher.
- Gonna make Aloth Evoker Wizard.

Haven't thought about the others yet. 

What class combos would you make the companions?

Edited May 17, 2018 by aweigh0101

[M4xw0lf]

Does it seem like all 3 of the Barbarian sub-classes are either not worth it, or require too much micro to be worth it, and thus the class is better "plain"?

Nah, Berserker is absolutely worth it. Confusion is not a big deal (and can be supressed entirely from ~mid game on), but the bonus penetration and armor rating are excellent.

Edited May 17, 2018 by M4xw0lf

[Maxzero]

My idea of cleaning up the subclasses:

 

Priest:

 

They basically need a more spell variety. Let them have one free cast of the subclass spells. As they level they get more free casts of the subclass spells (at PL 3, 6 and 9). Might make which subclass you pick actually matter.

 

If that is too much here is a simpler one: any bonus spells a Priest casts is automatically empowered.

 

Ranger:

 

Ghost Heart - take away bond cost of summoning pet. It's already using up actions and has a limited duration. Use him as a free DoT that you have to control.

Sharpshooter - recovery penalty gone.

Stalker - defence buff happens when you are within 7m. So there is only 1 distance to worry about.

 

Chanter:

Beckoner - lose the duration penalty on summons gain a damage penalty. You can still summon the horde of goons you could before (even easier to keep them out) but they are actually weaker in a way that matters. Quantity over quality.

 

Monk:

Swift Flurry - 40-50% proc chance on crit. Swift Flurry procs can't proc more Swift Flurrys (max of 1 proc per attack).

 

Wizards:

Only lose 1 school when subclassing.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Maxzero

[theBalthazar]

Most fairly minor but a buff to Swift Flurry is so not happening.

 

 

It is more to avoid comparison effect.

 

There is a -proof- that Lightning strike is better in all situation. So, I Up slightly swift for that. If it is a non-choice, Obsidian must supress swift strike. It is a better idea...

 

 

The Chanter nerfs seem more about multi classing then anything else.

 

 

Multiclass is a part of this game. +75 % of healing for a single class stay extremely interresting.

 

And for brilliance, even with a single, it is too much broken. Every 6s seems more reasonnable, even for single class.

 

The Wizard changes seem random.

 

 

Nothing is random with me. Gaze of adragan suffer of the comparison with Chanter. Essential/Substential phantom is a damage overtime. 6s is too much. I prefer so much do a minoletta line IV... Far more effective, instant and a good DPS.  Deleterious suffer of the comparison with his little brother, line I, Perhaps it is a problem of dexterity inspiration III (not enough powerful ?) In waiting of a boost, alacrity gain -10 % of recovery. In POE1, it was at 50 %. Here 15 % of inspiration + 10 of recovery = 25 %. Credible and not particularly broken when we know there is a malus. If not I take the spell level 1, far more interresting and I don't lose my health !...

 

 

Wizards:

Only lose 1 school when subclassing.

 

 

+ 1

Edited May 17, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Maxzero]

 

Most fairly minor but a buff to Swift Flurry is so not happening.

 

 

It is more to avoid comparison effect.

 

There is a -proof- that Lightning strike is better in all situation. So, I Up slightly swift for that. If it is a non-choice, Obsidian must supress swift strike. It is a better idea...

 

 

The Chanter nerfs seem more about multi classing then anything else.

 

 

Multiclass is a part of this game. +75 % of healing for a single class stay extremely interresting.

 

And for brilliance, even with a single, it is too much broken. Every 6s seems more reasonnable, even for single class.

 

The Wizard changes seem random.

 

 

Nothing is random with me. Gaze of adragan suffer of the comparison with Chanter. Essential/Substential phantom is a damage overtime. 6s is too much. I prefer so much do a minoletta line IV... Far more effective, instant and a good DPS.  Deleterious suffer of the comparison with his little brother, line I, Perhaps it is a problem of dexterity inspiration III (not enough powerful ?) In waiting of a boost, alacrity gain -10 % of recovery. In POE1, it was at 50 %. Here 15 % of inspiration + 10 of recovery = 25 %. Credible and not particularly broken when we know there is a malus. If not I take the spell level 1, far more interresting and I don't lose my health !...

 

 

Wizards:

Only lose 1 school when subclassing.

 

 

+ 1

 

 

I say it feels random because is reducing the casting time of Phantom and giving Alacrity a recharge debuff suddenly going to make Wizards feel balanced? How many players would even notice? 

 

To me that sort of fine tuning you do last. I like doing the big structual changes first (ie subclasses).

[Ganrich]

I'd leave set to their purpose at 30s, but if we are keeping the resource boon to Brilliant than I would adjust 3s to 8 or 10s. That's IF I wouldnt change Brilliants boon all together.

 

If Brilliant is staying then the Level 9 Invocation His Heart do Fill needs another function because it gives +1 class resource, and a level 7 upgrade does it better. Either change Brilliant to do somethong else, or His Heart should give those party members who receive it an Empower point back. I cant think of much else for His Heart to do, but I'm admittedly tired and need to get some sleep. The few ideas I do have are either just as OP or step on other abilities toes.

[dunehunter]

Well Swift Flurry being OP doesn’t mean lightning strike is not so... I’d rank SF as gamebreaking lvl and LS as OP lvl.

[theBalthazar]

I like doing the big structual changes first (ie subclasses).

 

 

Obviously. But my Wish list was for all Classes. All could be concerned. That was not for subclasses specifically. But I can do that for subclasses now :

_______________

 

Berserker : OK

 

Corpse eater : So much a way to do that with ALL deads (I kill a guy : HOP ! Even with a reduced AMOUNT of ressources). Could be far more interresting in this case (and more powerful) Now, it is too restrictive... And the penalty in an other hand is too impressive.

 

Mage slayer : Penalty is so violent... I think reduce it to "Cannot use SCROLL" is enough. Potions can be used. I can use drugs but not potions ? So not very logicial... Ingested = ok. Magic spells with scrolls = not OK. If not, nobody will never take that. It is a good effect, but globally not decisive all the time.

 

_______________

 

Beckoner : OK

Skald : OK

Troubadour : OK

 

_______________

 

Ascendant : OK

 

Beguiler : Problem in fact, I think more bonus is needed with deception cipher spells. Like +5 accuracy with them. If not it is... light.

 

Soul blade : OK

 

_______________

 

Fury : Slightly boost of the spirit form would be cool. Seems pretty weak in comparison of others spiritshift. Even if it is not totally equal with a melee form (that is normal), a minor boost would be cool. After all, I can cast relentless storm with an animist ? What is the difference ? +1 penetration ? A slighty more range ? (not fundamentally useful) We can also go in other way : A boost of DAMAGE with elemental attacks. (+10 % of FIRE / ELEC damage etc.)

 

Lifegiver : OK

 

Shifter : OK (I always waitting few passives/active for him, passives more "specifics")

 

_______________

 

Black jacket : On the paper, switch guns is awsome to avoid recovery. In fact, not "crazy". It is only one slot. I propose : Divided by 2, the malus of proficiencies. Master of multiple weapons ? Go for this.

 

Devoted : OK

 

Unbroken : Shield mastery : +1 armor and +5 deflection and fortitude.

 

_______________

 

Helwalker : Penalty 4 % of damage taken (40 % max) 5 % by wound is really really violent...

 

Napalzca : OK

Shattered pillars : OK

 

_______________

 

Bleak Walkers : OK

Goldpact knights : OK

Kind wayfarer : OK

Shieldbearers of st elcga : OK

 

Darcozzi paladini : Perhaps the less useful... Perhaps add a fire shield of proximity that deal damages overtime (like Sparks the souls of priest, but fire version, when the target is healing by Lay on hands)

 

_______________

 

Berath : OK

Skaen : OK

Eothas : Lack of "external" spells, This pick up traditionnal spells of priest, it is all... (External, like Finishing blow (Skaen, via Rogue) or rusted armor (Berath, via Druid))

Magran : Lack of "external" spells.

Wael : Lack of "external" spells.

 

_______________

 

Ghost heart : A pet really STRONGER would be cool. You must use ressource for that... It is a shame if there is not a little boost.

 

Sharpshooter : Talk to a real sniper. He is quicker or slower than others ? He is a Master of his art. So this penalty of recovery have no sense. Deflection why not. And for me the distinction between far or near is useless. The bonus must be general. Like +10 hit to crit AND +1 penetration. After that, we can add an ADDITIONNAL +1 of penetration, when the target is UNDER 4m. Final result in this case : +10 hit to crit +2 penetration.

 

Stalker : When you are with your wing, it is not only your defense that is increased. All the team is in trust. So I think under 4 meters, BASIC actions must be More easy. 40 % grazes to hit and +25 of disengaging (your bro help you to avoid more easily if you want move). We can also boost the actual bonuses. Which are not crazy...

 

_______________

 

Assassin : OK

Streetfighter : OK even if... I am not a big fan of his method of use.

 

Trickster : In fact, pick a wizard/assassin is far better than pick a trickster. First, down THE COST of all spells to 1 guile. (lol 3 guile for adragan when wizard = 1) Secondly, he can gain a boost of 7 in all defenses (stack with all bonuses) UNDER 30 seconds . After that, the "illusion" disapear (7 = reference to 777 of casino). Approved by Balthazar. Because actually, this is the worst choice of subclass.

 

_______________

 

Wizard : OK

 

Specialist : 1) Only ONE school become inaccessible. 2) For the main school selected, +5 accuracy -10% casting time. Eh yes, if you have a BIG penalties (one school in less, malus of recovery for all others schools...), it is normal to have a compensation.

Edited May 17, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Maxzero]

My issue is that every single change is a buff. Helwalker, Darcozzi, Unbroken, Beguiler and Fury are fine. There are not weak they are just not broken good.

[theBalthazar]

33 % to 40 % is not broken. It is nothing. 7 % of 50% of critical. Nothing. For a real boost, I should have up far highter in fact. (50 % for example, for a true difference)

 

Lightning strike is not the problem of monk.

 

It is 35 % of speed (FAR less than the full potential of a berserker, my friends...). and what ? 30 % of elec damage. Nothing of totally "broken".

 

Problem of monk is more general. It is a full DPS with a double way to have ressources. And when you optimize you say he is insanely good. Your opinion. To me, give options to a priest and ranger for example, is far more important actually.

 

Nerf a monk is useless. Because if you nerf all single damage, Assassin+evoker become broken etc etc.

 

So, no, there are not only buff, read my first wish list. There is a ton of NERF...^^ If you want more nerfs, propose yourself. It is allowed : p But balancing is also between TWO options side by side. If 100 % of people take lightning strike, it is not very interresting. Obsidian can nerf lightning strike yes, but objectively, himself this ability is not totally broken. (and already nerf before 50 % to 30 %) And in my first wish list you can view monk : 0 true buff. 33 to 40 % is a joke. Do minor difference in a battle, before against after.

Edited May 17, 2018 by theBalthazar

[papacracker]

I am a real hardcore fan of rpgs, pretty much of any kind but mostly towards old and classic ones. I played several times poe 1 and the classics like BG 1 and BG 2. I always try to play many classes to see how they function and what play style could be awesome and I have to admit that in poe 2 the possibility to mix all classes and nearly all sub classes, paladin and priest have a preset combination, is amazing and broken at the same time. 

 

In my opinion the most fun classes are the same like my favorite ones in poe 1: Paladin and Chanter. They were already awesome in poe 1 because of their flexibility as support. They could do damage, heal, buff and debuff, while the Paladin is a good semi tank and the chanter has summons.  Now in poe 2 they becamse even more awesome. Especially the Paladin, because Chanter needed mainly two things, starting with maxing spirit and having higher chants not needed to sing longer. 2 simple changes that made this class completely different from play style. By the way I played mostly in poe 1 the Chanter class with a mod that allowed me to start combat with maxing spirit. 

 

And the Paladin,... holy moly. Either way you can make him now to a dps character (not really possible in poe 1) with his intense FoD and his strong resource on kill recovery or you can give close allies an insane damage boost with the shared flames which can hold pretty much for ever and it increases all damage they do not only weapon damage by 20%.  Now when you combine this with the fire damage buff from the Chanter and it is pretty much done.

 

But things come even better. Not only are in my opinion those classes because of the flexibility and some broken stuff ( the resource regeneration buff from the Chanter is just broken, remove it pls! ) pretty high in the top tier, they have also shared with the Cipher the best sub classes.

 

All Chanter sub classes have an insane play style benefit:

 

Beckoner -> can be played with everything, literally, and is super strong. I played first with a dual pistol wielding herold  (bleak/beckoner) killing everthiyn with over 100 damage FoD hits at lvl 8,.. and summoning phantoms ( they are alive all the time ) while buffing me, myself, my minions and my group at the same time.

 

Skald -> just go any crit ( monk/ fighter/ rouge ) even paladin because FoD + Sworn Enemy + exalted focus and some gear lets you crit anyway enough 

 

Troubadour -> a better base chanter, because he can either be better at buffing with his chants or be better at invokation casting speed, double spirit gaining. When you dont want to build a crit Chanter or specialist into summoning then chose this one. He is especially awesome with any caster, because the Troubadour allows you to always have minimum 1 chant all the time up while gaining twice as fast spirit to keep up invoking and holding up the secound class spells for more situations.

 

a look onto the Paladin:

 

all four except Darcozzi, are pretty neat. I just didn't borther with them because minor flame shield was complete **** in poe 1. But as a Paladin the sub classes do just give a little push into a specific build. But I would say the Shieldbearers are the best for any melee Paladin that wants to take damage.

 

The Retribution talent is also a good way to increase a front line Paladins damage. This talent alone allowes me to go for a better mixture between might, dex and per because I dont need any more to be a slow but extreme hard hitting giant like in poe 1, now I can put some points away from might. Even more after you realize that it is additive and not multiplicative. That means that 1 Retribution stack gives you basicly 1 and 2/3 might.

 

Well and so the Herold is by far my top tier class of all. He is a Jack of all trades, Master of all. Who has probably the most build possibilies of all and he needs only intellect. Just go 18 intellect and you are fine. You dont need any min, max just 18 intellect. Well not even 18, 15 is enough for PotD and with the preset npcs.

 

And besides that a Nature Godlike Berserker / Goldpact is probably the strongest character I made.

 

 

[dunehunter]

Time will tell, if this game stays so easy after patches, players will just go on to another game. Even with so many builds, if the game itself is not challenging enough, it is not very fun to replay 2nd or 3rd times.

[theBalthazar]

Time will tell, if this game stays so easy after patches, players will just go on to another game. Even with so many builds, if the game itself is not challenging enough, it is not very fun to replay 2nd or 3rd times. 

 

 

Totally agree. Challenge = minimal resistance.

 

So, i think, the problem is really the "world". I wait the adjustement of POTD with impatience.

 

Because perhaps this feeling come to this. Perhaps the problem is not totally the different trees, but more the balancing of foes stats.

 

There is a balancing between classes, but for me, all abilities must also be viable.

 

So Multiclass (Monk-Devoted) VS single class (Monk)

Monk tree's choices (Lightning strike) VS monk tree's choices (Swift strike)

Monk VS other classes.

Subclasses (Napalzca) VS Subclasses (Helwalker)

 

Not easy to balance...

 

When I say "Beguiler" +5 accuracy for deception spells. It is because IF NOT, I can't say I will pick that more than an excellent soul blade. So it is more a balancing subclasses VS subclasses. Because in fact, the quintescence of ciper is already here, in the two cases. But dunehunter, honestly, you want choose a beguiler if you WANT a cipher for example ? (for me : never because not enough attractive actually...)

 

Waiting, it is better to not balance too much until we can see the POTD real mode...

Edited May 17, 2018 by theBalthazar

[papacracker]

Time will tell, if this game stays so easy after patches, players will just go on to another game. Even with so many builds, if the game itself is not challenging enough, it is not very fun to replay 2nd or 3rd times.

Yeh, the game is to easy but to have this flexibility in class building and having some many faction pretty much is the basics in a game that allows me to play it later when it is patched and balanced or more mods are out. 

[dunehunter]

 

Time will tell, if this game stays so easy after patches, players will just go on to another game. Even with so many builds, if the game itself is not challenging enough, it is not very fun to replay 2nd or 3rd times.

Yeh, the game is to easy but to have this flexibility in class building and having some many faction pretty much is the basics in a game that allows me to play it later when it is patched and balanced or more mods are out. 

 

 

I played baldur's gate 2 a lot times, just because the mods it has.

 

Btw why Deadfire has no Steam Workshop?

[Odd Hermit]

Some general comments -

 

• Cast times in general need adjustments, many spells should be shorter casts
• Priest and (caster)Druid suck, partly a cast time issue but also not enough potency to be found in their spell selections overall.
• That all Wizard subclasses suck other than Evoker is disappointing - losing two schools is too much for what you get in most cases. Wizard is still in decent shape though.
• Casters seem relatively light on strong talent options compared to melee
• Almost opposite the Wizard, a Chanter subclass is seemingly always better than default class. Chanter does need toning down as well.
• Paladin defenses and healing seem overtuned a bit, I think single class Paladin isn't overtuned but what the class brings to multiclasses might be.
• Fighter is in a good place overall but probably warrants some nerfs to a few particular things.
• Cipher seems on the weaker side if not multiclassed.
• Pets do not survive well enough, again, and ranger generally lackluster albeit still potent enough at ranged damage to work.
• Barbarian seems to rely entirely on choice multiclass combinations to be worth consideration at all.

This is based on low - mid level play so far. I have tinkered with the companions a fair amount in different combinations, and also an Arcane Knight and Sorcerer(lifegiver). I actually found the Sorcerer a decent Priest substitute at least - Nature Godlike + Infuse with Vital Essence + Lifegiver shift bonus = extremely long duration/potent HoTs you can toss up ASAP at the beginning of the battle. On that note, Nature Godlike are overpowered ... l mean I understand the point of the racial is going over their power... anyway, it's great their racial isn't garbage anymore but it seems many other overly circumstantial, weak, etc. racials got left untouched.