Edér: What happened?

[Skazz]

Whenever he talks, he felt like good old Eder. He just... lacks context in Deadfire. Could have been a random hired crew member. Very little catching up, even less continuation/evolution of his arc. I suppose there is some reflection of who, he become in a way he interact with the boy, but I found it all unconvincing. I feel like Obsidian overdid it with the editing this time.

 

Eder is a bit like Han Solo in Return of the Jedi : he's mainly there there for popularity reasons, but at that point, his character arc is over, and thus he feels somewhat out of the place in the story.

 

In the end, I can agree that the decision to bring him back diminished his character in Deadfire a little bit. For example, compare the subtlety of his PoE Night Market ending slide realization to the Deadfire's binary "is is worth it to follow Eothas anymore" conundrum. That said, even despite these flaws, it's clear to me that they did their best to make Eder feel like Eder, and there's really no other character I'd rather have at my side for a sequel.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Skazz

[Wormerine]

Eder is a bit like Han Solo in Return of the Jedi : he's mainly there there for popularity reasons, but at that point, his character arc is over, and thus he feels somewhat out of the place in the story.

 

Can’t wait for his solo Saint’s War prequel.

[Skazz]

 

Eder is a bit like Han Solo in Return of the Jedi : he's mainly there there for popularity reasons, but at that point, his character arc is over, and thus he feels somewhat out of the place in the story.

Can’t wait for his solo Saint’s War prequel.

 

 

The funny thing is, in a manner of speaking, this has already happened. The Eder-Elafa short story, anyone?

[Wormerine]

The funny thing is, in a manner of speaking, this has already happened. The Eder-Elafa short story, anyone?

Oh... I didn’t read any of the short stories. Maybe after I am done with Guidebooks, I might read those,

[zsuszi]

Agree with every word When I realized Edér isnt a romance I was very surprised.. He follow me to end of the world and the bottom of the hell not just now...  in the first game too . And at least I havent the option to romance him? This isn't logic for me... maybe I'm just an other fangirl I admit that .. *sigh* just  If he can axplain after  some flirt  I dont know he love other  woman or dont like my hair.. :D but this isnt tha case he just not deal with it.. :/ 
Your old friends are not want you  exept Aloth... they made all character bisex and avaible exept the most wanted ones.. :D  
Hope Obsidian will consider to change that ..

[Normandy]

I don't think he changed much, he just dosn't have much dialogues with the Watcher. In the instances he actually talks to him, he seems the same, he still your friend and values your opinion. Although, I have to agree, his whole quest is just... weird. There was so many options for interesting character quest than ex-lover from 20 years ago.

[wRAR]

For me Edér was fine, his jokes and references to our past were fine and a proper amount of them. And I think he actually mentioned his brother.

I've used the Hylea preset in 1.0.

 

 

the subtlety of his PoE Night Market ending slide realization

 

Hmm? I think it's too subtle for me.

[Astrolabe]

Maybe it's just a logistics thing. Like all the romanceable compaions are bi and that creates parity for people who prefer to play one gender or another. But if you have Eder be straight and romanceable, does that mean they have to have an additional female character who's straight? Does it mean they have to have another male character who's gay? Most reasonable people would say no, and that these are just characters and their writers obviously know them well enough to decide their sexuality.

 

But very vocal people will get upset about how it isn't fair. And honestly, after seeing a lot of people get up in arms about romances in other games, I'm totally understanding if developers just want to avoid that whole mess.

 

Romancing Eder would've been fun. He's a charming character and I like Matt Mercer's voice-acting. But also, what ya gonna do?

[Ascaloth]

There's just one thing about Eder that I felt was glaring in its omission. I mean, I took him to Ashen Maw so he could face Eothas face to face... and neither the Watcher nor he ever thinks to take the chance and demand answers about his brother, Woden?

 

I mean, Eothas appears to know who Eder and Xoti are even though he has never met them personally; that suggests a degree of godly omniscience, yes? He even deduces Pallegina's underlying motivations for her appreciation of what he's planning, even though as he far as he should know she's just some random bird-woman who seems to hang around the Watcher. And even if you complete Eder's personal quest back in PoE1, he never does get a definitive answer as to what Waidwen said to Woden that convinced the latter to switch sides to Readceras.

 

So Eder finally gets to chance to face Eothas personally, and Eothas from all indications knows the answer to an awful lot of questions. Why doesn't he ever try his luck one more time?

[Aridea]

Yeah he never got a proper resolution with Woden, I am surprised there was nothing you could do about it in Deadfire, especially not asking Eothas.

Hey, maybe next game we will go to Readceras and find clues about him there.

Or maybe by this time it simply doesn't matter, because we actually know what Eothas was trying to do and what secret Woden discovered. Still, it would have been nice to discuss it with Eder at least.

 

Other than that, I think Eder was fine. He was definitely a bit more depressed, but I kinda thought it was due to the ominous things happening and the end to status quo. Everyone would be depressed.

I did miss the little conversations when companions asked you how you felt at rest, that you had nightmares, couldn't wake up etc, both Eder and Aloth. But I suppose having piece of your soul stuck in Eothas for a while didn't have as much impact as you going crazy in the first game? Idk...

Edited May 30, 2018 by Aridea

[Skazz]

the subtlety of his PoE Night Market ending slide realization

 

Hmm? I think it's too subtle for me.

 

People tend to simplify Eder's PoE 1 endings as a choice between "guy gets religious" and "guy becomes atheist", but that's doing the writing a disservice, and I think it's never been intended to be quite so clear-cut as that.

 

Eder's so-called "religious" ending in PoE 1 isn't as much him reinforcing his faith in a god as him realizing than it ultimately doesn't really matter. The question whether Eothas is a constructed entity  - or alive, or even real - becomes  irrelevant because it's not about getting a tangible miracle from some arcane power but rather the ideas that this supposed "power" stands for. In many ways, it's a refreshingly real depiction of the maturation of one's beliefs in a game that sometimes likes to be way too blunt about such issues. Like many companions in PoE, Eder sets out to discover an objective answer to his reality, and while he never finds the be-all and end-all divine authority to absolve himself, that's still okay because he comes to understand that "Eothas" is an idea that can be used to inspire others to greater heights: to kindness, to charity, to forgiveness. To, as Eder would say, do good by folks.

 

The fact that one of the first things Eder asks you in Deadfire is something along the lines of "should I still believe in Eothas or not" feels like a horrible oversimplification of this personal journey. If there's one character from PoE that should know better, it's Eder.

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Skazz

[Aridea]

 

The fact that one of the first things Eder asks you in Deadfire is something along the lines of "should I still believe in Eothas or not" feels like a horrible oversimplification of this personal journey. If there's one character from PoE that should know better, it's Eder.

 

I think its normal. We always oversimplify things when we ask our friends for advice, while the actual question is far more complex in our heads. The friends are asked for the sense of general direction, everything else we usually figure out on our own. Maybe thats the case with Eder as well. He probably still has a giant mess in his head.

[Mari]

I did miss the little conversations when companions asked you how you felt at rest, that you had nightmares, couldn't wake up etc, both Eder and Aloth. But I suppose having piece of your soul stuck in Eothas for a while didn't have as much impact as you going crazy in the first game? Idk...

Yeah, I miss this as well. I kept hoping they would pop up but I guess there just isn't any.

 

There just doesn't seem to be as much dialogue between the Watcher and the companions as there was in PoE1 (unless its bugged and I'm just not getting them). Even little interactions like those at rest made the characters more fleshed out and did a better job building a relationship b/w them and the Watcher then this new system. It feels like the companions talk more to each other then they do to the MC.   

 

Plus, all my convos with Eder seemed to fire really early in the game and its been dead silent since. LOL! He basically rejected my Watcher and its been like 3 years of awkward silence between them XD    

[Wormerine]

As far as Woden... what is there more to ask? PoE1 Eder dilemma was what happened to Woden - we learn he joined armies of Readceras. This for Eder meant: did I fight on the wrong side? Was Waidwen really Eothas’ incarnation?

 

We know he was. If Waidwen was Eothas, it is not a surprise he could recruit Woden. Woden died in battle.

 

While the quest itself ended up uncomplete it reaches resolution with the final revelation of the game.

 

In Deadfire Eder choice is how to react to Eothas’ 2nd crusade? Join with him like Woden did? Or not?

[Aridea]

I agree, but I also think whats getting everyone is the lack of closure.

We know what happened and what Woden fought and died for, but we never get to discuss it with Eder especially since it was such a huge issue for him. At least some sort of aknowledgment would have been good. But I guess you can’t have everything because budget and resource linitations.

[Celan]

I mean, assuming the watcher is male, and you played as a male watcher, we could deduce that maybe he's heterosexual? It might have already been thrown around ITT but I wouldn't discount the possibility.

 

That would assume that there's a "canon" male Watcher.

 

I echo the OP's confusion and somewhat disappointment. Eder was his usual cheerful-yet-fatalistic self, but his story arc is disappointing in that he seems pointlessly stuck on a one night stand. On the one hand it shows that he really does care about those he's involved with, on the other hand it leaves him seeming rather immature and neurotic.

 

The companions just ditching the Watcher felt incongruent in PoE1, too. I don't expect all companions to drop their own agendas and be devoted to the PC, but in making sure they stay independent, it ends up feeling unnaturally cold. Like, does the Watcher have bad breath or something?

 

I did consider that it might have been an issue of egalitarianism in the romances, i.e. Eder is straight so he's out of the picture, and they had to come up with some reason why that would be the case, unlike with Pallegina who's much less cuddly.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Celan

[Normandy]

Yeah, the thing that really bugs me - it's been 5 years and none of your old companions thought to write/visit the Watcher. I thought we were friends, guys

[Galagraphia]

Yeah, the thing that really bugs me - it's been 5 years and none of your old companions thought to write/visit the Watcher. I thought we were friends, guys

This. Edér was a mayor of a pretty big town, situated on one of the main roads, just a day away from Caed Nua, and the Watcher apparently spent all 5 years sitting in Caed Nua, sleeping like some cursed princess the whole time, never going for a ride, never visiting the neighbours and old friends (in my ending GM, Edér, Durance and Hiravias were somewhere around). That's just so weird that the Watcher had no contacts with any of the old friends.

[PsychoBlonde]

Interesting. I always play male characters and Eder felt the same to me as in 1. Aloth however, feels completely different. He was one of my favourite characters in 1 (2nd after Zahua), and my Watchers were always really kind to him, which he arguably doesn't deserve at all, yet in Deadfire, he's an aloof, judgemental git. My approval with him is still at 0, and was even at -1 at one point until I reloaded and kicked him out of the party for that particular scene xD (everyone else I cart around has been at  +2 for ages). He's also at -2 with Serafen and Tekehu, while they are at 0 with him). Eder OTOH is still a fuzzy teddy bear. Enjoys jokes, likes helping, isn't judgy. I think he was depressed in 1 too. I wonder if this feeling re. characters depends upon how invested we were in them in 1. I mean, I always liked Eder, but it wasn't anything I was really passionate about, and I also won't be trying to romance him any time soon, as I'm assuming he's always straight. I agree that if you are a female, it would seem odd the thought never crossed his mind before.

 

My take on it is that Eder has something of a low self-esteem or humility problem, and he regards the Watcher as existing on a whole different level from himself.  If she condescends to be friendly with him and care about his problems and help him out, well, that just proves how awesome she is, but for him to think about her in that way, well, that just ain't right.  The very thought makes him uncomfortable, like having relations with a dragon.

 

To most people (particularly Americans, who generally internalize the idea that they're at least as good as anybody else, probably better), this would seem bizarre, but it's consistent with his characterization from Pillars 1.

[Baltic]

Yeah, the thing that really bugs me - it's been 5 years and none of your old companions thought to write/visit the Watcher. I thought we were friends, guys

I get why this happens but this sort of thing is always annoying in rpgs. It’s like how in some rpgs if you don’t do certain quests before the ending, the epilogue has to assume you’ll never do it. This example is slightly worse though, as stuff like how much the Watcher contacted the companions could be set by dialogue options.

[Slotharingia]

My take on it is that Eder has something of a low self-esteem or humility problem, and he regards the Watcher as existing on a whole different level from himself.  If she condescends to be friendly with him and care about his problems and help him out, well, that just proves how awesome she is, but for him to think about her in that way, well, that just ain't right.  The very thought makes him uncomfortable, like having relations with a dragon.

 

To most people (particularly Americans, who generally internalize the idea that they're at least as good as anybody else, probably better), this would seem bizarre, but it's consistent with his characterization from Pillars 1.

That makes sense. I was wondering actually, how everyone in Deadfire knows that Eder is a farmer, and brings it up. Edited May 31, 2018 by Slotharingia

[marimo]

Maybe it's the accent, or a stereotype since he's clearly Meadowfolk. He's also got kind of a weathered look going on. 

[Aridea]

Well he does have a type.

Regardless of how you play your watcher maybe the watcher is just not his type. I mean come on, is everyone here physically attracted to their best friends irl?

 

As for the gaps between games, im actually quite happy its left to player’s imagination. You have room to come up with anything you want.

[PsychoBlonde]

 

That makes sense. I was wondering actually, how everyone in Deadfire knows that Eder is a farmer, and brings it up.

 

Excuse me for trying to fix the broken quote there, sorry.  I hope it worked.

 

He has a redneck accent, probably.  And he acts like a "redneck" to an extent (apparently on purpose--he's smarter than he acts, but not a genius by any means).

 

It's more apparent in Pillars 1 that he's a low-key kind of guy, he reminds me of a lot of factory workers and laborers that I've been around over the years, and most of them would rather cover themselves in honey and belly-flop on a termite mound than deal with a "high-class", highly-educated woman no matter HOW hot or nice she is.  And it's not because they don't like her, they like her plenty, they just don't want to be in a relationship where they're a sideline or an afterthought.

 

It's far from universal, but you see it here and there.

 

If you notice, if you miserably fail his personal quest, he doesn't really get mad at you.  He ASKS you to PLEASE do his personal quest, even at the stage where it's LITERALLY LIFE OR DEATH for someone who concerns him.  If he thought of himself as your equal, he'd TELL you that you're going NOW and be BITTERLY angry if you just wandered off and did your own thing.  But he doesn't.  It's not that he doesn't care, but he does NOT expect YOU to care--even though he was probably the one personally responsible for pulling your unconscious body out of the ruins of Caed Nua, hauling you cross country after Eothas to keep you alive, helping put a ship together, personally watching over you while you're unconscious, etc.  I mean, he did ALL THAT STUFF, but he doesn't in any way figure you OWE him this one little thing that literally costs you NOTHING apart from being a little timely for once?

 

Yeah.

Edited May 31, 2018 by PsychoBlonde

[Tarlonniel]

... most of them would rather cover themselves in honey and belly-flop on a termite mound than deal with a "high-class", highly-educated woman no matter HOW hot or nice she is.

Why are you assuming that the Watcher is a high-class, highly-educated woman (or man)? In many of the backgrounds that's not true. At all.

 

I get no sense that Edér considers the Watcher in any way his superior. He's just a laid-back, easy-going, sort of brainless guy. Yes, he does have a type - we've seen two examples of it - but it's entirely possible to play a woman of exactly that type. And we know he's not suddenly decided on celibacy - he's quite ready to mack on Iselmyr.

 

Saying that he's not interested in a serious relationship? Completely understandable; he's never really been interested in that, apparently. Saying he's not attracted to any type of Watcher at all? Don't buy it.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Tarlonniel