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Wish PoE wizards were like DnD wizards

deadfire pillars eternity spells magic wizard

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23 replies to this topic

#1
Bleak

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Because atm they are underwhelming and un-fun. Complained in 1 about that as well. Saying this after a complete playthrough. DnD spells (in any DnD game up to now) were impactful - they felt powerful. PoE spells (except the best spell in the game- chill fog), even with a large amount of perception and accuracy, are unreliable and not worth casting except for crowd control in some situations. See much better results with non-wizards in my party.

 

And the new grimoire/spell system is not intuitive at all. Every grimoire has assortments of spells that I don't like tbh and re-training seems a must for every wizard. With these spell/element resistances in the game, if wizards can not versatile, they end up being useless in half of the fights. Why not let us write our own grimoire and use that as a gold sink as well? 


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#2
evilcat

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I like the idea of handcrafting grimoires.

There could be a special vendor. Which allows to buy empty books. And write spells 1by1. But not delate. You need to buy new empty grimoire, that is what we call business model. And you can name your tome of course.

the cost is like 100*PL per spell.

 

If you take wizard + druid/priest you could have a lot of spells if that is a priority.

No complain for overall caster system.


Edited by evilcat, 11 May 2018 - 11:01 AM.

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#3
artyom

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I loved BG1 and BG2 wizards too. They were sick and fun. 1 wizard against a whole army (2-3 webs and then fireballs and stuff), or a series of magic missiles that actually killed stuff or a lightning bolt or the best: powerful summons

 

its was a good trade off that wizards started off crappy but eventually became game-changers


Edited by artyom, 11 May 2018 - 12:20 PM.


#4
rjshae

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Yeah, but that's kind of the problem with D&D wizards, isn't it? After a certain level they become THE dominant class. Everybody else is just there to deal with the obstacles.


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#5
Bleak

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Not to mention the talents... had a hard time finding talents worth getting. For example, I like the empower mechanic, but what purpose does the "Great Soul" talent serve? - use empower an additional time before resting? Why would we care about that? Shouldn't it be "empower can be used an additional time per fight"? Doesn't seem like they gave them much thought. 


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#6
Fiaryn

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The D&D Wizards you're thinking of are grossly overpowered. They felt good because they were grossly overpowered.

 

The reason PoE Wizard does not feel as good to you is because it is not God King Of All Creation, it's simply a very effective class at it's particular niche, which is mostly crowd control.


Edited by Fiaryn, 11 May 2018 - 02:21 PM.

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#7
angryusaman

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The thing I like about wizards/druids/priests in this game is that every one of their spells can be used in every fight without ever resting once.  The only need to rest comes from using empower.  It feels like every formerly Vancian caster has 2 spell mastery spells of each level now.  In the first game I would never use the per rest spells or abilities unless I was fighting one of the hardest boss fights in the game or something equally challenging that would require me to burn resources.  I would use the absolute crap out of the per encounter spells and abilities though, and that goes for caster and non-caster.  I like how almost everything is per encounter now. 


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#8
Bleak

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Even if they were grossly overpowered they worked. BG, NWN, PST, ToEE etc... all these games did fine. Per encounter is mostly a convenience thing - do nothing instead of pushing a button. Actually with random sleep encounters, I would prefer that you had to rest and risk getting attacked. 


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#9
tinysalamander

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Even if they were grossly overpowered they worked. BG, NWN, PST, ToEE etc... all these games did fine. Per encounter is mostly a convenience thing - do nothing instead of pushing a button. Actually with random sleep encounters, I would prefer that you had to rest and risk getting attacked. 

 

More trash fights. Great :biggrin:



#10
RoiCohen

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I understand why you feel that way, but the thing is, Pillars of Eternity's system is more suited for video games then D&D. More encounters and more enemies means you should have more access to your abilities and powers, which means they should be nerfed, in order for Wizards not be actual gods.

 

I don't know if you remember, but by the end of Baldur's Gate II (and all throughout Throne of Bhaal) most of the fights were mostly an attrtition war between wizards setting up protections while trying their opponents' protection, while the martial classes stand idly by, waiting, and trying not to die in the mean time.

 

Honestly? I loved BG2 and the wizard fights too (they felt like real-time[-with-pause] puzzles!), but Pillars of Eternity feels more balanced, with every class having an equally important role in battle, just in different ways. If it means nerfing the casters (which are my favorites, espcially in D&D, which I'm playing on a weekly basis)... Nerf away.


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#11
artyom

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what POE did is essentially they made every class a wizard. Other classes are called differently but essentially they can get so many abilities that the difference between wizards and non wizards is in name only



#12
evilcat

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One way to indirect buff wizards:

Give them (and all classes) Deep Pockets passive as option at level 1.

It will help wizards greatly since you can always store more grimoirs to jugle or some scrolls.

It will be overall beneficial, since players like options, and are immune to argument Rolling Barb/Monk drug user is not how you are supposed to play, peasant!

 

Generally it will be nice if more neutral passives was front loaded. (level 1-3)

Other than that casters are ok in general. The fact that you can give your caster dual pistol/scepter helps.

Or pike/staff.


Edited by evilcat, 13 May 2018 - 04:29 AM.


#13
JFutral

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As long as you could keep your magic user alive until he could cast enough spells to make a difference, DnD MUs are great... for DnD.

 

I've always felt under either system in PoE1 or 2 that wizards can contribute long after they have spent their "Magic Missiles". I can have a ranged Wizard that isn't a sling shot. I can have a Wizard who can wield a sword without penalty. I can have a Wizard who can wear armor (that's the biggest good part to me).

 

I do appreciate that the PoE devs agreed to speed up some of the spell casting though. It was ridiculously long in beta. And I was constantly "Interrupted". Much better now. Yesterday I actually ran out of spells before a fight was over. That used to never happen.

 

Joe



#14
Zeitzbach

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DnD has more houserule and random mumbojumbo while Pillars is a cRPG where mechanic is way more important. Balance is very important.

 

And it doesn't help that Wizards are insanely good anyway. Ice Fireball is lolgood and Slicken reapply every seconds. I was keeping some bosses permanently Prone'd with a t1 spell. Wilting wind is a massive AoE. Gaze is a super strong petrify and Ring of Death also works on bosses as a giant AoE finisher. There are ALOT of good spell unless you're looking for a "1 cast 10 kills".


Edited by Zeitzbach, 13 May 2018 - 04:28 AM.


#15
lonelornfr

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I just finished the game as a single class wizard character. While i think poe 1 system was superior to deadfire's, i think some wizard's spells are still VERY impactful wether as a control/support or as a straight up damage dealer. Once you get access to lv3+ spells, you really start to shine, and by the end of the game you're a powerhouse, probably even more so than in poe 1.

 

As far as grimoires go, i think it's a cool idea, i just wish there were more grimoires with special effects (i only found one).

 

I still wish they would have kept poe 1's casing system, with per rest spells, it feels weird to me to be able to cast so many spells every encounter. And yet sometimes i wish i could cast more spells of a particular level in a fight.

 

Also i'm not sure why some spells were nerfed to death like confusion which is pretty useless now, but there are still plenty of very good spells, so it's fine i guess.



#16
Voss

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I loved BG1 and BG2 wizards too. They were sick and fun. 1 wizard against a whole army (2-3 webs and then fireballs and stuff), or a series of magic missiles that actually killed stuff or a lightning bolt or the best: powerful summons

 

its was a good trade off that wizards started off crappy but eventually became game-changers

That isn't a good trade off.   From a game design perspective, that's a terrible trade (a class should be enjoyable at all level and not an 'I win' button at any level).  From an 'anyone who isn't playing a wizard' perspective, that's a terrible trade (protect the gimp so he can make me irrelevant later).


Edited by Voss, 13 May 2018 - 01:57 PM.


#17
marcnivar

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Bg2 has the best Mage fight and I'm not sure why there is no crpg with similar level since bg2.. perhaps it is considered too complicated if they make it like bg2 nowadays..

#18
Ad Hoc

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I'm a bit peeved all grimoires have all spell levels (why would a hedge mage know the most powerful spells?), but the unique spells some books have make choosing between the books an interesting decision. I think mechanically wizards were more interesting in PoE1, being able to learn all the spells but restricted to 4 at a time, but I suppose that was a sacrifice that needed to be made going into a more homogenized multi-class system.



#19
tazntaylr

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I like the idea of handcrafting grimoires.

There could be a special vendor. Which allows to buy empty books. And write spells 1by1. But not delate. You need to buy new empty grimoire, that is what we call business model. And you can name your tome of course.

the cost is like 100*PL per spell.

 

If you take wizard + druid/priest you could have a lot of spells if that is a priority.

No complain for overall caster system.

 

So like this idea. I so do not like the way grimoires work now.



#20
tinysalamander

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I still wish they would have kept poe 1's casing system, with per rest spells, it feels weird to me to be able to cast so many spells every encounter. And yet sometimes i wish i could cast more spells of a particular level in a fight.

 

I'd rather say that playing a wizard and not casting spells is much more weird.







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