Syrian containment topic

[Zoraptor]

The US and allies have decided to attack Syria, so a separate thread seems sensible. Details are sketchy at the moment, so it's unclear if there was any tacit deal made with Russia or anything else. At least two waves of missiles over Damascus, and some reports of explosions near Homs is pretty much the sum total of what is known so far.

[Fiach]

The Russians moved to safety awhile ago, they took it seriously enough. It seems to be confined to chemical installations, hopefully that will continue.

[Zoraptor]

They didn't leave, some ships put to sea and that's it. There's literally no concrete information yet, but it looks like in the order of 120 cruise missiles- not tomahawks, this time...- launched from B1s rather than ships and not going anywhere near the Russian base, probably launched over Jordan and coming east to west. Also tacit warning was definitely given to Russia, via the deconfliction line. Overall it looks low energy rather than yuge, and not likely to lead to anything much further.

 

Not surprised it was launched today either, Friday the 13th wasn't going to be a go, but if the medical personnel from Douma Hospital* saying it was smoke inhalation rather than CW gains traction Trump's 'think of the children' appeal goes away. Their story is also exactly what the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported, so there's corroboration from a strongly anti government source.

 

*the medical personnel can be seen in the most often repeated footage with the gasping children and point themselves out in it in the video. It's marginally NSFW and has age restriction applied so no embedding.

[Malcador]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MdSRtloyRQ

[HoonDing]

Pls forward any future rapefugee refugee directly to France/UK/USA.

[Katphood]

These seem to be limited strikes. Not that different compared to last year. 

[HoonDing]

[Sarex]

Seems that Syria shot a fair few of the rockets down with their own defenses.

[teknoman2]

these people are asking for WW3... and its still 50 years too early for it according to Fallout

i mean by going against Assad, UK, US and France are indirectly allying themselves with ISIS who's purpose is world domination through enforcing their religion on everyone.

[Drowsy Emperor]

So stupid and pointless. Assad has already won the war, they can't attack him directly without attacking the Russians, so all the destruction is basically for show.

 

'We said this can't pass, but it did pass, so we will attack just to prove you can't say no to us without consequences' - Summary. Said consequences will only hurt people on the ground and the alleged target, not in the slightest, helping an already devastated country take one more step down to total ruination.

Edited April 14, 2018 by Drowsy Emperor

[Sarex]

One thing to think on. If they really did bomb the chemical weapon plant, what about the contamination they caused by doing it?

[teknoman2]

One thing to think on. If they really did bomb the chemical weapon plant, what about the contamination they caused by doing it?

details... nobody will even think about it

[Katphood]

 

Assad won if you ask me.

[Zoraptor]

One thing to think on. If they really did bomb the chemical weapon plant, what about the contamination they caused by doing it?

 

The target at Barzeh literally has random civilians and soldiers walking around it and inside it, none wearing so much as a facemask. That's the only one with any pictures yet, and it's taken a fair ding it's fair to say. It is also least likely, if the US descriptions were true, to have much actual chemicals since it was a research facility.

 

There's a big discrepancy between targeting reports still, the Russians, government and rebels all claim a whole bunch of places rather than 3 were targeted. The Russians and, rather oddly, the rabidly anti government SOHR both say that more than half of the missiles were intercepted, Pentagon claims are that none were. While 71 or 65 interceptions seems unlikely the case for at least one storm shadow being intercepted is near incontrovertible (french manufacturing info on wreckage, rocket fuselage looks more like a crash than explosion), and at least one other interception or failure is very likely (random missile debris is shown, but crater is far too large for an interceptor to have caused).

 

Donald Trump tweeted a 'Mission Accomplished' message. I really do wonder sometimes if he does it all deliberately and is the biggest troll in the known universe.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Shadow Storm is supposed to be relatively new tech, if it got blasted by the old S systems that doesn't sound like much of an endorsement. 

 

Also, at 2.5 million euro a pop, it probably costs more to manufacture than whatever it hit.

Edited April 14, 2018 by Drowsy Emperor

[Malcador]

Well think every long range missile costs more than what it blows up. Guess you pay more to not risk crew.

 

Maybe it got downed by newer systems too

[213374U]

One thing to think on. If they really did bomb the chemical weapon plant, what about the contamination they caused by doing it?

 

Mattis was asked this very question yesterday. He robotically parroted a predictable non-answer about carefully selecting targets and doing their utmost to prevent civilian casualties.

 

 

 

Also, at 2.5 million euro a pop, it probably costs more to manufacture than whatever it hit.

 

 

No worries son, we got it covered. Joe Taxpayer knows his dollar is well spent in defense of America, even as he struggles under the crushing weight of medical and/or student debt.

Edited April 14, 2018 by 213374U

[Malcador]

Double post

Edited April 14, 2018 by Malcador

[injurai]

How many oil pipelines run through Syria?

[pmp10]

These seem to be limited strikes. Not that different compared to last year.

It's a limited strike against chemical production facilities which makes far less sense than last years show.

Assad has to have enough sarin stockpiled for numerous stunts like that in Douma.

Edited April 14, 2018 by pmp10

[HoonDing]

"One thing to think on. If they really did bomb the chemical weapon plant, what about the contamination they caused by doing it?"

 

as i understand it the components for really dangerous stuff (vx, sarin) are stored separately and are inert

 

chlorine, though..

[Zoraptor]

They're sufficiently unstable that for most military applications the precursors are not only stored separately but they're mixed literally on the fly in the warhead- or you can mix them in a bucket, doesn't matter if they're going to be used immediately. Some such as VX can be stabilised, and kept as mixed chemical. All are destroyed by heat and burning, so at least theoretically a saturation strike would not pose much of a leak risk.

 

The list of targets and number of missiles used have been released by the Pentagon:

76 at the Barzeh Research Facility (Location, most pictures of damage are from roughly the roundabout at center and it's the 3 buildings to its NW that have been destroyed, see also)

22 at one chemical site in Shinshar, Homs (location of Shinshar; the imagery shown is so terrible you can barely say they're the same places and there are a load of military facilities around they could be in)

7 at another site in Shinshar, Homs (as above)

 

The Russian, Syrian Government and Rebel claims are... rather different and all include attacks on multiple airfields, though most are on a rough flight path from Jordan to north Damascus (Mezzeh, Dumair, Marj Ruhayyil, Kalkhalah) or near Shanshir (Qusayr) so may well not have been actual targets but just shooting at passing missiles they assumed were targeted at them. Russians say 71 were brought down, SOHR says 65, Pentagon says 0.

 

76 fired at the Research Facility certainly seems completely ridiculous for the amount of damage so far shown- ISI (note: their north arrow is pointing... south) show only three buildings as destroyed and all the others shown apparently intact, 76 JASSMs and tomahawks would have cost more than the cost of the buildings.

[Valsuelm]

One thing is certain: Trump will be a one termer, at best. Doesn't matter who goes up against him.

 

Get ready for Cuomo, Oprah, or perhaps worse.

 

If we make it that far...

 

[Sarex]

Never underestimate Americas ability to double down on stupid, especially if they start a war in the mean time.

[Valsuelm]

Never underestimate Americas ability to double down on stupid, especially if they start a war in the mean time.

 

I wouldn't ever do such a thing.

 

I fully expect Americans to put someone in office in 2020 who will lie to them, not represent their interests, and do anything but actually look out for the interests of the people of the United States of America. It just won't be Trump they elect.

 

I'll put my money or whatever where my virtual mouth is. If there are any takers, I am saying that Trump will absolutely not be President after the 2020 election. Super safe bet as I see it, far safer even than when I wagered Trump would win long before he actually did.

Edited April 15, 2018 by Valsuelm