OMG are Fighters powerful in Deadfire

[Yosharian]

 

 

 

Friendly reminder - keep to the topic and not throwing out attempts to poke at perceived "trolls".

Eh? Where did you see that?

 

I agree that Carnage is a bit weak. I mean all right it doesn't need PEN and all but 30% is pretty whimpy. Also because Carnage's radius is smaller due to the nerf of the effects that INT has on AoE size.

Carnage has always been utter crap. The only thing that saved it in PoE was weapon procs. Without that, it's trash, even if it is raw damage.

 

 

In PoE it's not. It gains +1 ACC with every char level und thus has +6 (+11 with Accurate Carnage) accuracy compared to barb's base accuracy at lvl 16. Or in other words: it's like an AoE auto-attack with a higher "base" accuracy than a fighter has. The 34% damage malus loses its impact soon enough once you get other dmg modifiers. It's only bad in the early game due to abysmal ACC and low damage (=low DR penetration). And that's when people start to judge and toss it aside. Shame if you ask me.

 

It's one of the most powerful passive abilites in PoE if you know what you're doing and when you have to do it.

 

But I wouldn't want Deadfire to reintroduce the weapon procs with Carnage. You can already see which horrible balancing problems come with that: look at Spirit Lance/Minor Blights/Blast and how they are implemented (like PoE's Carnage basically...). Proc BLinding Strike in an AoE - use Soul Annihilation in an AoE - Cascade Swift Flurry to one-shot groups. Ach!

 

Again: I would want Carnage to be a bit better in Deadfire though. At the moment it makes me sad to look at those disappointing numbers (at lvl 9!). For starters they could give the Mage Slayer spell disruption for Carnage, too. 

 

 

> horrible balancing problems

 

That's entirely why it's crap.  It goes from being crap to being super strong.  And people rightly dismiss it early game because it's useless early on!

 

Carnage is the quintessential impossible-to-balance skill because it affects too many targets.

[Boeroer]

Right. But now it is easy to balance because it's just some weapon-unrelated AoE effect. It's just too weak atm. In terms of accuracy (it misses all the time for me) and in terms of damage. It's nice that it's raw damage though.

[PatrioticChief]

 

The resistances are the same as the racials so everyone can get them. Before in Beta the fighter and paladin resistances did not stack with the racial ones, is that different now?

 

Probably just me being wrong

 

Two crap passives at tier one with arms bearer and fast runner. Hope you want an extra weapon slot

 

I take Fast Runner on Unbroken Fighters, but otherwise yes, it's pretty terrible.

 

 

PL2 for Fighters is awful. Compare that to Paladin that has 2 very nice passive at PL2. 

[dunehunter]

Devoted, Disciplined Strike, Cleave stance, these 3 together makes fighter the best melee class imo.

• Devoted boost penetration and crit damage;
• Discipline Strike boost accuracy and crit chance a lot;
• Cleave stance triggers itself if you cleave somebody to death;

Combo with paladins for more sturdiness and FoDs, with monks for the best autoattacks, with berserker for carnage while cleaving, it's jus too good right now.

[Boeroer]

Disciplined Strikes boosts your accuracy by 5 points. I wouldn't call that a lot. 

 

Honestly the more I try to trigger Cleaving Stance with several characters the less I think of it (in a full party). 

 

I find the Unbroken's Disengagement Attacks to be pretty... broken? You can't leave an Unbroken's engagement without severe punishment. No enemy ever leaves an Unbroken when I play him. He's like a Monster Magnet.

 

[dunehunter]

Disciplined Strikes boosts your accuracy by 5 points. I wouldn't call that a lot.

 

Honestly the more I try to trigger Cleaving Stance with several characters the less I think of it (in a full party).

 

I find the Unbroken's Disengagement Attacks to be pretty... broken? You can't leave an Unbroken's engagement without severe punishment. No enemy ever leaves an Unbroken when I play him. He's like a Monster Magnet

Well you get around +25% crit chance with it right? Normally to boost crit chance by 25 u need 25 more accuracy. Anyway cleave and unbroken they don’t exclude each other right?

[Boeroer]

No, but Devoted and Unbroken do.

[dunehunter]

Yet the example MaxQuest raise in beta forum is good so I put it here.

 

If you are surrounded by 4 enemies, each has 100hp and your per hit damage is 25, you need 16 hits to kill them all.

 

With cleave stance you will need 6 hits only, and if one enemy has half hp, u only need 4 hits to kill them all.

 

16 -> 4-6 hits is very overpowered imo. Also, you don’t really need to be surrounded as I tested, the range of cleave seems to be bigger than your attack range.

 

Also you get the stance at level 3, and it’s cost 0 source.

Edited April 6, 2018 by dunehunter

[M4xw0lf]

Yet the example MaxQuest raise in beta forum is good so I put it here.

 

If you are surrounded by 4 enemies, each has 100hp and your per hit damage is 25, you need 16 hits to kill them all.

 

With cleave stance you will need 6 hits only, and if one enemy has half hp, u only need 4 hits to kill them all.

 

16 -> 4-6 hits is very overpowered imo. Also, you don’t really need to be surrounded as I tested, the range of cleave seems to be bigger than your attack range.

Does the full attack from cleaving stance trigger carnage?

[dunehunter]

 

Yet the example MaxQuest raise in beta forum is good so I put it here.

 

If you are surrounded by 4 enemies, each has 100hp and your per hit damage is 25, you need 16 hits to kill them all.

 

With cleave stance you will need 6 hits only, and if one enemy has half hp, u only need 4 hits to kill them all.

 

16 -> 4-6 hits is very overpowered imo. Also, you don’t really need to be surrounded as I tested, the range of cleave seems to be bigger than your attack range.

Does the full attack from cleaving stance trigger carnage?

I think so, it is just a normal attack.

[SonicMage117]

What's done is done. The balancing has been majorly screwed up. It's going to be a hard road but I have faith they'll get it back to something good ir at least decent. It's going to take time though, don't expect fixing overnight. Small tweaks at a time perhaps - on all classes and talents.

Edited April 8, 2018 by SonicMage117

[Boeroer]

How convenient - because you don't have to use spoiler tags then.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Boeroer

[theBalthazar]

16 -> 4-6 hits is very overpowered imo.

 

 

Not the same thing than a fireball ?

 

If you are surrounded by 4 enemies, each has 100hp and your per hit damage is 25, you need 16 hits to kill them all.

 

3 attacks to kill opponent for fireball and cleave stance need a first kill and 6 hits. So yes this is strong, but no less than others things now.

Edited April 6, 2018 by theBalthazar

[dunehunter]

 

16 -> 4-6 hits is very overpowered imo.

 

 

Not the same thing than a fireball ?

 

If you are surrounded by 4 enemies, each has 100hp and your per hit damage is 25, you need 16 hits to kill them all.

 

3 attacks to kill opponent for fireball and cleave stance need a first kill and 6 hits. So yes this is strong, but no less than others things now.

 

 

Well will your fireball procs weapon on hit effects? Will your fireball trigger another fireball when it kills a mob? If this is a barb ability i'm totally fine, but this is fighter, you both have tankiness and better aoe abilities than barb

 

Also the fireball damage is pretty much limited on its basic damage, which is around 60 unless you empower it, while I can easily deal 100+ damage with full attacks.

Edited April 7, 2018 by dunehunter

[THCRaven]

 

 

16 -> 4-6 hits is very overpowered imo.

 

 

Not the same thing than a fireball ?

 

If you are surrounded by 4 enemies, each has 100hp and your per hit damage is 25, you need 16 hits to kill them all.

 

3 attacks to kill opponent for fireball and cleave stance need a first kill and 6 hits. So yes this is strong, but no less than others things now.

 

 

Well will your fireball procs weapon on hit effects? Will your fireball trigger another fireball when it kills a mob? If this is a barb ability i'm totally fine, but this is fighter, you both have tankiness and better aoe abilities than barb

 

Also the fireball damage is pretty much limited on its basic damage, which is around 60 unless you empower it, while I can easily deal 100+ damage with full attacks.

 

If you cleave from stealth/invis with an assassin/devoted and kill the target, does the full attack that follows get the bonus from the assassin ?

[Heijoushin]

I just tried a Black Jacket. Played like Josh mentioned in the Q&A: 3 weapon slots, put a gun in each, cycle through 'em. BANG BANG BANG. In longer battles, you have to reload of course, but I think it's quite a fun style for a ranged character. Maybe next I'll make a ranger/black jacket or something.

[Boeroer]

You can even get 4 weapon sets because of Arms Bearer. If you combine Quick Switch with Black Jacket the switching is really fast. You can combine 3 sets of blunderbusses with one set of pistol and after all shots are fired you can do the reload modal with pistols. With Disciplined Strikes and Confident Aim it's all good.

 

You can multiclass with Paladin or Sharpshooter for great alpha strikes or choose Streetfighter: trigger flanked with Powder Burns on blunderbuss and when the pistols got shot turn on the modal and also profit from Streetfighter's powerful speed boost.

 

It's cool - bit the switching is so tedious. Please include switching actions and conditions into the AI scripting. Pretty please?

[dunehunter]

You can even get 4 weapon sets because of Arms Bearer. If you combine Quick Switch with Black Jacket the switching is really fast. You can combine 3 sets of blunderbusses with one set of pistol and after all shots are fired you can do the reload modal with pistols. With Disciplined Strikes and Confident Aim it's all good.

 

You can multiclass with Paladin or Sharpshooter for great alpha strikes or choose Streetfighter: trigger flanked with Powder Burns on blunderbuss and when the pistols got shot turn on the modal and also profit from Streetfighter's powerful speed boost.

 

It's cool - bit the switching is so tedious. Please include switching actions and conditions into the AI scripting. Pretty please?

 

Discipline Strike and Powder Burn counter each other So it's actually bad to pick streetfighter, or you don't use discipline strike.

[Boeroer]

If you use the first 4 shots without powder burns and the 5th and 6th with it you should cancel Disciplined Strikes and keep to be flanked, or not?

[dunehunter]

If you use the first 4 shots without powder burns and the 5th and 6th with it you should cancel Disciplined Strikes and keep to be flanked, or not?

 

Imo as a streetfighter you should always try to be flanked or bloodied because the +50% sneak attack -50% recovery time is too good. But if you can let yourself get Flanked without affliction, i think it would be good with fighter.

[Boeroer]

Since Black Jacket/Streetfighter has no Constant Recovery it's maybe not a good idea to get yourself "really" flanked all the time?

 

Cleaving Stance should be good with a bloodied or flanked streetfighter, shouldn't it?

[Blades of Vanatar]

 

Well that’s a huge difference...

...................yep they downgraded the one of the weakest classes even more

This is a CRPG. Not every aspect of the game needs to be concerning how fast you kill your enemies. Rogues just do it differently than the Warriors. I think skulking behind the enemy lines, shredding enemies and disappearing back into the darkness is the most enjoyable part of using a Rogue. I find them more challenging and more rewarding. Weakest? Heck no....Just a different play style.