Josh's new suggestion for Resolve is brilliant IMHO!

[the_dog_days]

If the game weren't so far along in development, my proposed 'fix' for Resolve is to get rid of the stat and merge what it governs into other stats. (I'm very much against taking something away from one of the other stats to give to Resolve.)

[Insidous]

Ok, assuming that there is a group of people that hate strength/resolve, let’s assume that resolve needs a buff to support the reversion. Right now, crits do less in Deadfire than in PoE. Instead of adding in another mechanic with random empowers, just scale the magnitude of crits up or down depending on resolve. 10 resolve could be a base of 25%, and go up or down by 3% per point of resolve.

 

Every build would be impacted, and it prevents resolve from being a dump stat. Any thoughts?

 

Not a bad idea!

The interaction with perception might become weird though, since they synergize so well with each other. Maxing, one while dumping the other could result in a bad build.

 

Another merit the empower version has, that it affects support characters like healers, too. I think for RP reasons they want to make resolve important for priests, paladins, etc. 

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Ok, assuming that there is a group of people that hate strength/resolve, let’s assume that resolve needs a buff to support the reversion. Right now, crits do less in Deadfire than in PoE. Instead of adding in another mechanic with random empowers, just scale the magnitude of crits up or down depending on resolve. 10 resolve could be a base of 25%, and go up or down by 3% per point of resolve.

 

Every build would be impacted, and it prevents resolve from being a dump stat. Any thoughts?

 

Treads too much on Perception which is already the "crit build" stat." I'lm a little worried as is that there are gonna be resolve/dex/per builds that go crazy with the empowered criticals all the time. 

 

In a vaccuum, I'd just say combine Resolve and Constitution into one stat and just have five stats.

[DozingDragon]

 

Ok, assuming that there is a group of people that hate strength/resolve, let’s assume that resolve needs a buff to support the reversion. Right now, crits do less in Deadfire than in PoE. Instead of adding in another mechanic with random empowers, just scale the magnitude of crits up or down depending on resolve. 10 resolve could be a base of 25%, and go up or down by 3% per point of resolve.

 

Every build would be impacted, and it prevents resolve from being a dump stat. Any thoughts?

Not a bad idea!

The interaction with perception might become weird though, since they synergize so well with each other. Maxing, one while dumping the other could result in a bad build.

Maybe, but one might still crit even with a low per because accuracy and defenses scale with level, empowering provides bonus accuracy, and some abilities and inspirations providevhit-to-crit conversions. So, I think there would still be value in having better criticals even with a low perception. And high perception with a low resolve would still provide some benefit, just a reduced one.

[Archaven]

I hate randomness on empower. I need to know exactly what i'm getting. You need to make accurate choices so that you are managing the battle efficiently. Not some hoping that you RNG and get something good. 

[DozingDragon]

Treads too much on Perception which is already the "crit build" stat." I'lm a little worried as is that there are gonna be resolve/dex/per builds that go crazy with the empowered criticals all the time.

 

In a vaccuum, I'd just say combine Resolve and Constitution into one stat and just have five stats.

Yes, but I don’t think cutting resolve will happen, it would throw off the inspiration/affliction system, etc. And even if resolve became valuable to crit specific builds, it would still be useful for “tank” builds, and others.

 

Your concern about perception and resolve interacting, while valid, is not that far from how annihlating builds functioned in PoE. Even if someone pumped per, res, and dex to the detriment of other stats, they would still be increasing a lower base damage due to low might or lower base duration due to low intellect.

[JerekKruger]

Cutting Resolve seems unlikely as it unbalanced the spread of non-Deflection Defences from Attributes: each of Fortitude and Reflex would have two attributes governing them, but Will would only have one.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

The other big problem with this change: where does this leave Concentration and Interrupt for non wizards who don't have a way to build concentration?

[theBalthazar]

MIGHT

+3 % damage / +2 Fortitude

Classic damages.

 

CONSTITUTION

+5 % Health / +2 Fortitude / +1 Deflection

Constitution become the bastion of defense with the deflection. Far more logical.

 

DEXTERITY

+4 % of physical action speed / +2 Reflex / +0.2 movement speed

Execution of action herself.

 

PERCEPTION

+1 Perception / +2 Reflex / +4 % Area of effect

Perception of distances.

 

INTELLECT

+5 % duration / +3 % Area of effect / +2 willpower

Extension of various effects.

 

RESOLVE

+3 % of spell action speed and recovery / +2 willpower / +3% Healing

Willpower to return to the fight and casting speed. E.g. : 0.7s (weapon attack) of action speed is not concerned. 4s of recovery is concerned. Healing but no more (no magic damage...).

 

------

Edited February 27, 2018 by theBalthazar

[IndiraLightfoot]

@theBalthazar: Regardless of any of our discussions here - that is one beautiful attribute distribution you've come up with there, and it makes much more sense, even RPG-wise.

                            Kudos!

[Gromnir]

 

 

CONSTITUTION

+5 % Health / +2 Fortitude / +1 Deflection

Constitution become the bastion of defense with the deflection. Far more logical.

 

 

intuitive, deflection has no connection whatsoever with constitution.  reasonable and intuitive is Not particular serious barriers in a game, but even so, is nothing remote logical or intuitive 'bout your conclusion o' deflection being an aspect of constitution. 

 

deflection, original, were split 'tween perception and resolve.  perception were indeed intuitive and reasonable as being an essential factor o' deflection.  battlefield/combat awareness is key in avoiding getting hit or being able to make hits glance off shields and armour. gotta know when an attack is coming to deflect.  gotta know when an attack is really a feint to avoid over-extension. etc. perception were indeed intuitive... but poe perception were also linked to accuracy.  have deflection and accuracy controlled by a single attribute were unbalancing.  'course deflection were split and were 1/2 perception and 1/2 resolve.  

 

*shrug*

 

dexterity remains kinda a weird attribute as it seems to encompass speed, agility and fine motor skills all at the same time.  is a frankenstein kinda attribute which we accept 'cause is a crpg standard as 'posed to having any kinda intuitive basis or reasonableness.  even so, am s'posing if we had to come up with attributes which reasonable and intuitive affect deflection, we would suggest dexterity as being arguable equal important as perception. once a combatant is aware o' attacks, he needs be quick enough and agile enough to respond appropriate to deal with such attacks.

 

oh, and strength/might would also be a factor in deflection, if less so. even the most accomplished aikido master ain't gonna be able to deflect every kinda attack w/o strength.  

 

regardless, is probable best to accept the marginalization o' intuition and reasonableness in such discussions.  find a fair and balanced spread o' useful attributes is key, but pretending as if poe/deadfire is any kinda reality simulator is wasted effort.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited February 27, 2018 by Gromnir

[rothamon81]

 

Yeah, I should specify that I don't hate the current-BB STR-RES setup. 

 

might is, in our opinion, a big mistake for deadfire.  we liked might in poe, but poe did not have multiclassing.  paladin/caster, monk/caster, rogue/caster, barbarian/caster, and almost every other combo o' anything/caster, is seeing exploitive builds taking advantage o' big weapon damage.  *chuckle* should be obvious many o' the current most unbalanced multiclasses is the combos which is gonna disproportionate benefit from a return o' might.  a warlock, which is already doing comical damage in the deadfire beta, will be affected in what way by a revert to might? will already excessive damage numbers increase or decrease? 

 

am actual surprised by the proposed might revert from obsidian.  am hopeful there is a twitch soonish 'cause am gonna want to know what has changed since might were adopted to make a reversion anything other than a terrible idea. 

 

again, we liked might in poe, but deadfire is not poe.  multiclass changes the equation.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Totally agree. Multiclass melee/caster sharing the same damagebonus attribute, bad idea, especially since healing is affected by it too. Just envision it, 4 multiclass spellthrowing conans and one very determined gaunt multiclass paladin/fighter.

[theBalthazar]

intuitive, deflection has no connection whatsoever with constitution.  reasonable and intuitive is Not particular serious barriers in a game, but even so, is nothing remote logical or intuitive 'bout your conclusion o' deflection being an aspect of constitution. 

 

 

Interresting. So in fact, we can put deflection in Perception in this way of thinking ? :

 

v. 2

 

MIGHT

+3 % damage / +2 Fortitude

Classic damages.

 

CONSTITUTION

+5 % Health / +2 Fortitude /+3 % Area of effect

Area of effect : Impact of your body ? Titan = have a better range ? Solve the problem of "intelligent Berserker" (Carnage...) ?

 

DEXTERITY

+4 % of physical action speed / +2 Reflex / +0.2 movement speed

Execution of action herself.

 

PERCEPTION

+1 Perception / +2 Reflex / +1 Deflection;

Perception of distances. Memories from POE1 ; )

 

INTELLECT

+5 % duration / +4 % Area of effect / +2 willpower

Extension of various effects.

 

RESOLVE

+3 % of spell action speed and recovery / +2 willpower / +3% Healing

Willpower to return to the fight and casting speed. E.g. : 0.7s (weapon attack) of action speed is not concerned. 4s of recovery is concerned. Healing but no more (no magic damage...).

 

------

 

regardless, is probable best to accept the marginalization o' intuition and reasonableness in such discussions.  find a fair and balanced spread o' useful attributes is key, but pretending as if poe/deadfire is any kinda reality simulator is wasted effort.

 

 

I think to that and indeed, it is extremely difficult to balance without a big loser (priest (Healing division) Druid/cipher/chanter (jack of all trade) etc.

Edited February 27, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

Treads too much on Perception which is already the "crit build" stat." I'lm a little worried as is that there are gonna be resolve/dex/per builds that go crazy with the empowered criticals all the time.

 

In a vaccuum, I'd just say combine Resolve and Constitution into one stat and just have five stats.

Yes, but I don’t think cutting resolve will happen, it would throw off the inspiration/affliction system, etc. And even if resolve became valuable to crit specific builds, it would still be useful for “tank” builds, and others.

 

Your concern about perception and resolve interacting, while valid, is not that far from how annihlating builds functioned in PoE. Even if someone pumped per, res, and dex to the detriment of other stats, they would still be increasing a lower base damage due to low might or lower base duration due to low intellect.

 

 

 

Yeah it's too late in the cycle. I'm outta ideas though.

[vanyel54]

Pfff, still talking about primary attributes definition one month before the release...

Distressing.

With the empower random idea, we could have then three power spikes during the fight (Crit/over-penetration/random empower). Could be painful.

[IndiraLightfoot]

[DozingDragon]

A modest proposal: copy the IE games and make resolve give a bonus to buying and selling from merchants.

[Gfted1]

Wasn't it Charisma that affected shop pricing in the IE games?

[JerekKruger]

A modest proposal: copy the IE games and make resolve give a bonus to buying and selling from merchants.

 

If Deadfire's anything like Pillars that's basically worthless. Money was never in short supply.

[bleedthefreak]

This may have been suggested already - there are so many threads about Resolve - but since like the idea of Resolve governing spell power and Strength being used for physical damage, what if instead of some crazy random Empower effect from having a high resolve (and I very much don't think letting enemies use empower unless they are like boss fights is a good idea) instead the Resolve stat dictates the power level and number of Empowers you have?

 

Say at 10 you have 2 empowers that boost +5 power levels, and that goes up all the way to like 3 empowers per rest at +10 power level around 20 Resolve? And conversely, dumping the stat gives you 1 empowers (or maybe 0 or still 2) at +3 or 4? Then it's useful for every class and still feels like its own thing.

Edited February 27, 2018 by bleedthefreak

[MortyTheGobbo]

 

A modest proposal: copy the IE games and make resolve give a bonus to buying and selling from merchants.

 

If Deadfire's anything like Pillars that's basically worthless. Money was never in short supply.

 

 

This benefit from Resolve would also apply only to the party member with the highest value, as they would take care of all the shopping.

[DozingDragon]

 

A modest proposal: copy the IE games and make resolve give a bonus to buying and selling from merchants.

 

If Deadfire's anything like Pillars that's basically worthless. Money was never in short supply.

 

 

 

I think you mistake my point entirely, see: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal

[JerekKruger]

I think you mistake my point entirely, see: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal

 

Hah, I didn't spot the reference!