Priest still a ‘must add’ for Deadfire?

[Frog Man]

A party without a priest in POE1 was gimped. Are you guys finding the new inspiration system as well as other heAls like life giver Druid, lay on hands, and second wind can be enough to forego the obligatory priest in a party?

[Wormerine]

I did quite a few runs without a priest on veteran and it worked just fine.

[morhilane]

My first playthrough of POE1 was without a Priest (once I got enough party members to ditch Durance) at release and I found it easier than when I did it playing as a Priest in another playthrough.

 

I never understand people saying that POE1 party required a Priest personally.

[LampStaple]

My first playthrough of POE1 was without a Priest (once I got enough party members to ditch Durance) at release and I found it easier than when I did it playing as a Priest in another playthrough.

 

I never understand people saying that POE1 party required a Priest personally.

??? what difficulty did you play on? It's not that potd isn't possible without a priest, but tons of fights get ridiculously annoying when you're charmed repeatedly or perma frightened in dragon fights. I can't imagine the game somehow being easier with no party wide means of removing crippling afflictions.

[Gromnir]

priests is less essential as healbots and buffers in deadfire than they were in poe... not that they were genuine essential in poe.  chanters get a few extreme powerful buffs. paladins and druids is capable o' much healing... and am thinking kind wayfarer heal is underrated, though we think it should trigger on a graze. 14 health ain't much o' a heal, but for a tank paladin with max resolve and decent intellect, the heal is gonna be mid 20s and almost spammable at mid/high levels. add fact that scrolls and potions can heal folks, and the need for a traditional priestly healbot/buffer is reduced.  however, am thinking the priestly capacity to suppress afflictions is poor understood by most beta folks, so priests is actual a bit underappreciated at the moment. almost immediate following release, obsidian claimed they were gonna do some kinda afflictions tutorial.  never happened.  doubt it is gonna happen-- too little development time remains. perhaps sometime following release? in any event, beta is a bit misleading as we has been seeing a relative small number o' affliction based attacks from enemies. once we get dark spores and horror causing spirits and all kinds o' other nasties, people is gonna more appreciate priests.  sure, other classes can also counter afflictions, but priests appear best suited to such a role, a role which will be increasing vital. 

 

...

 

converse, the limited powers available to all casters means priests won't necessarily have a needed affliction killing power available to 'em during every battle.  am suspecting there is gonna be a few seeming vital counters which will nevertheless only be situational useful. am foreseeing the potential for a bit o' frustration when trying to choose priestly powers. 'course the frustration will be linked to the perceived, if not wholly accurate, need for a priest with the appropriate counter.  our solution in deadfire is same as poe: add two priests to a party.  will likely have xoti and a main character with priestly multiclass.

 

belated full disclosure: we tend to play as a priest. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[morhilane]

 

My first playthrough of POE1 was without a Priest (once I got enough party members to ditch Durance) at release and I found it easier than when I did it playing as a Priest in another playthrough.

 

I never understand people saying that POE1 party required a Priest personally.

??? what difficulty did you play on? It's not that potd isn't possible without a priest, but tons of fights get ridiculously annoying when you're charmed repeatedly or perma frightened in dragon fights. I can't imagine the game somehow being easier with no party wide means of removing crippling afflictions.

 

Played on normal, but I suspect Veteran is similar considering I don't bother min/maxing/optimizing and only rest when health gets too low.

 

My without Priest party deal with affliction by having a Chanter (support chant/invocation) and Paladin (Liberating Exhortation mostly). Healing was the druid and paladin, but I need more healing with the druid party (killed stuff faster in the first playthrough). I haven't tried Chanter support in 3.0 yet, but it has even more tools to deal with afflictions via chants and invocations and unlike a Priest, they aren't per-rest.

Edited February 25, 2018 by morhilane

[KDubya]

In PoE I did PotD runs without priests. With a chanter regen aura, veterans recovery for more regen, and Zealous Endurance to reduce incoming damage via hit>graze healing was easily handled by LoH. Whenever that wasn't enough there were scrolls and potions.

 

In DeadFire Priests get one ability pick per level up which may or may not get used on a spell. There like three different spells needed to drop all the afflictions and I'm not sure that it'll be worth it to spend the points. Plus afflictions are not near as bad as they were in PoE. Factor in possible racial protection from afflictions and certain classes also having access to affliction protection and a Priest for affliction protection doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

Priests are versatile and powerful enough to want them on the team for many reasons but primarily affliction defense is not one of them.

[Archaven]

In PoE I did PotD runs without priests. With a chanter regen aura, veterans recovery for more regen, and Zealous Endurance to reduce incoming damage via hit>graze healing was easily handled by LoH. Whenever that wasn't enough there were scrolls and potions.

 

In DeadFire Priests get one ability pick per level up which may or may not get used on a spell. There like three different spells needed to drop all the afflictions and I'm not sure that it'll be worth it to spend the points. Plus afflictions are not near as bad as they were in PoE. Factor in possible racial protection from afflictions and certain classes also having access to affliction protection and a Priest for affliction protection doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

Priests are versatile and powerful enough to want them on the team for many reasons but primarily affliction defense is not one of them.

 

1 ability pick per level up? means 1 spell per level up? one of the reason i love priest in poe is that they are versatile. they have the answers available to them. if it's 1 spell pick per level up it means at max level we will have 20 spells only? if wrong skill picks then that sounds like bad design.

[Gromnir]

afflictions, o' which we has seen only a small sampling in the beta, will play a much larger role in deadfire.  terrified, stunned and dominated is particular harsh, and other than monks, few classes have cost effective defenses for dealing with more than a couple afflictions.   have enemies spamming such attacks will wreck a party which is unprepared.  to build a chanter capable o' protecting 'gainst all such is improbable as it means sacrificing offensive capabilities and there simple ain't as many inspirations available to the chanter.  druids is greater for heals and offensive spells, but have few inspirations. paladins is fantastic for single target buffs, heals and inspirations, but the lack o' party inspirations is a serious limit. etc. priests is far more flexible in support than other classes, which were their chief advantage in poe.  won't be any different in deadfire.

 

am recalling how many folks were woeful unprepared for vithrack and fampyr following the poe beta.  were funny the complaints.  immediate following release, folks were building naked ranged characters and rogues n' such, only to see such dps dynamos getting 2-shot killed by dominated or charmed party mates. duh. history will repeat... it almost always does. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Boeroer]

That might be true. Beta is not the whole game. And resistances usually don't cover the whole party. If the casting times of most party-wide inspirations weren't so slow... Most prayers in PoE could be cast quickly. However - in addition to the usual inspiration priests still have Devotions which is one of the few sources of direct ACC buffs in Deadfire atm - and it affects the whole party (I mean besides the good stuff it additionally does).

Edited February 25, 2018 by Boeroer

[Archaven]

one of the thing i hate about charm or dominate in poe was having high will doesn't help. i have to go the route to pop everyone svef or something. it was a big pain in the arse.

[Gromnir]

one of the thing i hate about charm or dominate in poe was having high will doesn't help. i have to go the route to pop everyone svef or something. it was a big pain in the arse.

*chuckle*

 

one reason obsidian removed grazes in deadfire were 'cause o' such complaints.  a charm or dominate graze o' three or four party members were frequent a wipe, particular before wm when there were no absolute protections 'gainst such.  in any event, were so many complaints 'bout stun and charm and dominate grazes that obsidian rid deadfire o' such.  'course is few such foes doing such stuff in the beta, so the beta folks demanded a return o' grazes.  deadfire paralyze is not poe paralyze, so were tough to get a sense o' the harsh impact o' graze afflictions as were so ire inducing in the firstest game.

 

whom the gods wish to destroy, they grant wishes. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited February 25, 2018 by Gromnir

[Boeroer]

But I think the decision to remove grazes also leads to frustration (and now they are back again). Since there's a layered affliction system now they could have tried an reduce the tier of affliction with a graze (still using the full duration) instead of removing grazes altogether. Graze with a damaging ability: -50% damage, graze with an affliction: one tier lower. That means that spells that apply confuse and graze won't do anything, but better than removing grazes altogether I think.

Edited February 25, 2018 by Boeroer

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

But I think the decision to remove grazes also leads to frustration (and now they are back again). Since there's a layered affliction system now they could have tried an reduce the tier of affliction with a graze (still using the full duration) instead of removing grazes altogether. Graze with a damaging ability: -50% damage, graze with an affliction: one tier lower. That means that spells that apply confuse and graze won't do anything, but better than removing grazes altogether I think.

I don't see why this wasn't implemented given how it makes sense with the new tiered afflictions. Perhaps they didn't want to do higher tier afflictions on crit or something.

[Lamppost in Winter]

As much as I liked the sound of down/upgrading Affliction tiers on grazes/crits, I think it's probably better to stick with the duration thing. It's clearer what's going on, and something like your Paralyze spell grazing to an Immobilize would feel almost as bad as when we didn't have grazes in the first place, since the spell isn't doing what you wanted it to.

[Boeroer]

Same case with inspirations and resistances. Can't see why it should be a problem with grazes and crits then.

[hilfazer]

Casters suck so Priest isn't mandatory.

[Archaven]

i think part of the problem would be enemies having access to unlimited casting of afflictions? even with high will and grazes it seems that's possible to perma afflict our party and hence rendering high attributes useless. if that's the case it's better to provide players complete immunity (for a short duration) provided if they have the available skill/spells. not to mention content can be gated due to leveling requirements (eg. you cant have access to certain spells without reaching x levels).

[morhilane]

1 ability pick per level up? means 1 spell per level up? one of the reason i love priest in poe is that they are versatile. they have the answers available to them. if it's 1 spell pick per level up it means at max level we will have 20 spells only? if wrong skill picks then that sounds like bad design.

 

It's more than 20, you get the sub-class bonus for free at each power level (there is 9 of them) and Josh announced that we will pick 2 spells when we reach new power levels as well. 

 

I'm not sure how you can make the wrong pick though. Spell have detailed descriptions in the level up screen, you'll know exactly what they do. The biggest issue with Priest is recovery time, but that plague all the casters but Chanter.

 

i think part of the problem would be enemies having access to unlimited casting of afflictions? even with high will and grazes it seems that's possible to perma afflict our party and hence rendering high attributes useless. if that's the case it's better to provide players complete immunity (for a short duration) provided if they have the available skill/spells. not to mention content can be gated due to leveling requirements (eg. you cant have access to certain spells without reaching x levels).

 

Then you counter with unlimited casting of resistance to said afflictions (aka bring a Chanter or classes/races with affliction resistance) to downgrade those instead of countering using inspirations.

 

And you get some of those at character creation. For example,  Wood Elves can't be Paralyzed, they have resistance to dexterity afflictions as racial passive which means Paralyzed gets downgraded to Immobilized.

Edited February 25, 2018 by morhilane

[Gromnir]

immunity spells is utter impractical in deadfire.  you only get a small number o' powhaz per spell/power tier.  choose protection from dominate power/spell makes no sense in deadfire.  in spite o' the terrible efficacy o' enemies spamming dominate, the number o' encounters wherein there will be dominating enemies is relative small.  similar, remove fear were a powerful defense in poe, but is gone in deadfire.  gonna give up restore or suppress affliction to get remove fear for 5% of encounters? is already too many situational useful priest spells; add another such layer would be bad.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[mrmonocle]

priest is not mandatory, any char with high arcana can replace a priest in a 'i need to resist a certain affliction' situation. Some of the priests buffs are nice though.

[drchocapic]

I almost never put a Priest in the party, even in PotD. As far as I'm concerned, they have a really great buff but not much else to make them needed right now.

 

However, you have to consider the fact that we have no idea if the full game will have more encounters that make Priests feel important.

[thelee]

I almost never put a Priest in the party, even in PotD. As far as I'm concerned, they have a really great buff but not much else to make them needed right now.

 

However, you have to consider the fact that we have no idea if the full game will have more encounters that make Priests feel important.

 

I haven't played much deadfire beta (too crashy for me). Is Devotions for the Faithful still an obscenely OP buff/debuff spell?

 

Also everyone saying that priests weren't mandatory in PoE1. I mean, sure, you could play without one (and I have plenty of times). You could also beat the game just solo. That doesn't mean that having a priest was obscenely helpful. I don't understand why people don't think having a random party member who could randomly, instantly counter any affliction in the game (and Suppress anything else) in addition to having unmatched buffs would not make any encounter dramatically easier (plus, past mid-game the priest gets almost as direct damage power as a druid or wizard). Plus, speaking of Devotions, any time I play PotD with reduced party member counts, I can divide the game into two chapters: Before I get Devotions for the Faithful, and After I get Devotions for the Faithful.

Edited February 26, 2018 by thelee

[Yosharian]

 

 

My first playthrough of POE1 was without a Priest (once I got enough party members to ditch Durance) at release and I found it easier than when I did it playing as a Priest in another playthrough.

 

I never understand people saying that POE1 party required a Priest personally.

??? what difficulty did you play on? It's not that potd isn't possible without a priest, but tons of fights get ridiculously annoying when you're charmed repeatedly or perma frightened in dragon fights. I can't imagine the game somehow being easier with no party wide means of removing crippling afflictions.

 

Played on normal, but I suspect Veteran is similar considering I don't bother min/maxing/optimizing and only rest when health gets too low.

 

My without Priest party deal with affliction by having a Chanter (support chant/invocation) and Paladin (Liberating Exhortation mostly). Healing was the druid and paladin, but I need more healing with the druid party (killed stuff faster in the first playthrough). I haven't tried Chanter support in 3.0 yet, but it has even more tools to deal with afflictions via chants and invocations and unlike a Priest, they aren't per-rest.

 

How bad would it be if the Chanter was a Skald, and thus had to pay an extra +1 for each defensive Invocation he cast?

[Boeroer]

Maybe I missed something - but is Devotions for the Faithful the only spell in the beta that gives you a party wide, direct accuracy buff (so that it stack with all those different PER buffs from inspirations)?

 

That alone would be a reason for me to bring a priest. +20 additional accuracy for the whole party in every encounter is a huge advantage. There's a reason why Inspiring Radiance and Devotions were so powerful in PoE: they stacked with the universal acc buffs like Zealous Focus/Disciplined Barrage/Eldritch Aim and also PER buffs. 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Boeroer