Would you multiclass fighter/paladin if they cannot access to Charge/Sacred Immolation?

[dunehunter]

So if multclass cannot access to level 8 and 9 ability/spells. For Fighter, in one of the review there is a revealed ability tree as below, we can see Charge is only accessable for single class fighters.

 

So would you still multiclass a fighter even he/she cannot learn Charge? Same as Paladins, would you multiclass he/she?

 

For me it seems the lose of Charge is pretty big, but multiclass fighters still get a bunch of good stuff and all the weapon related passive abilities. Paladins I'm not too sure, they seems to be pretty lame without Sacred Immolation because the high level abilities are pretty meh except SI. How's you guys' opnions about this?

 

[Boeroer]

As long a Cleaving Stance stays like it is, Charge doesn't matter, right?

 

It depends. Charge is very nice, but if you can multiclass two classes which get awesome stuff in the early to mid level tier I think it's much better for 75% of the whole playthrough than getting Charge once the game is in its final descent.

 

Depends how much game is left one you get Charge.

 

Same with Sacred Immolation.

[KDubya]

As Boeroer said it'd depend on how much of the game remains when you get that high level ability and how good it actually is.

 

Consider Dragon Thrashed - without knowing any details or specifics if you were told that multi classes lose out on getting Dragon Thrashed you'd say it makes multiclass Chanters gimped. But in this game Dragon Thrashed is pretty damn terrible so losing it would not matter.

 

You'd have to look at each class in a case by case basis. Spamming low level abilities like Torment's Reach while adding the additional flexibility of a Barbarian, Rogue, Fighter or Paladin might be equal or better than a pure monk.

 

I'd say that this is probably the best sign that there will be some sort of a trade off between single and multi classes and that would be very appreciated.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Yeah, the base passives make it a prime candidate for not getting hurt at all, the auras and stances add a lot(even though a couple don't stack), and both have some good abilities from PL 1 to 5. And we still don't know what PL 6-9 abilities are across classes so the synergy could be even better.

[AndreaColombo]

As others have mentioned, it comes down to how much high-level content the game has. Charge is a great ability, but so are the synergies you get from multi-classing.

[Osvir]

Fighter(Unbroken)/Paladin(Shieldbearer of St Elcga)

'Nuff said. Equip with Medium- to Large Shield, Plate Armor, all of the Engagement talents, and you get a God Tank.

EDIT:
A Devoted/Bleak Walker Deathlike (Melee, Aumauan), with Two-Handed sounds strong. I haven't tried. Just sounds like it would be. Or maybe a sort of Sten playstyle (From Dragon Age Origins, Main Tank MC, Sub-Tank Alistair or Off-Tank Sten, Wynne, Morrigan, was pretty good combo).

EDIT2:
Just tested it out and it is even stronger than a Batltemage (Fighter/Wizard). Although, I did optimize this one a little bit more (+custom party). Same fight/encounter:

Fighter(Devoted)/Paladin(Bleak Walker) Godlike Death Aumaua
- Total Damage: 520
- Target Damage: 69.1
- Crits: 5
- Hits: 7
- Damage Taken: 81.8

Fighter(Unbroken)/Paladin(Shield Bearer) Human
- Total Damage: 260.8
- Target Damage: 54.8
- Crits: 2
- Hits: 8
- Damage Taken: 33.1

Barbarian/Wizard(Enchanter) Dwarf
- Total Damage: 308.1
- Target Damage: 48.4
- Crits: 17
- Hits: 55
- Damage Taken: 99.4

Wizard(Evoker)/Druid(Fury)
- Total Damage: 389.5
- Target Damage: 31.2
- Crits: 10
- Hits: 25
- Damage Taken: 26

Priest(Eothas)/Druid(Lifegiver)
- Total Damage: 216.6
- Target Damage: 24.2
- Crits: 3
- Hits: 31
- Damage Taken 42.8

Really like this combo. Very "hulky" with high survivability. Would probably change Warlock for Battlemage though.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Osvir

[dunehunter]

Fighter(Unbroken)/Paladin(Shieldbearer of St Elcga)

 

'Nuff said. Equip with Medium- to Large Shield, Plate Armor, all of the Engagement talents, and you get a God Tank.

 

You will be very tanky yeah, but I'd doubt it that it's a God Tank. First of all, the engagement range is limited, once you've already engaged like 3 or 4 enemies, the rest will just pass by without engage your tank. Secondly, if the enemy AI is smart enough, they will just break engagement as your tank damage is not so high even with Unbroken bonus.

 

In summary, you are very tanky yeah, but you won't contribute too much to the team, specially without the late game abilities like Charge and Sacred Immolation.

Edited February 10, 2018 by dunehunter

[Osvir]

It's not a solo character. I've tried it multiple times in the Beta in several different parties and it is just simply strong *shrug* of course, don't have a clue what's it going to be like in the late game.

I might even do a playthrough with adventurers and only have Companions sit back at the ship and only recruit when side mission maybe.

Having so much fun with:
Crusader (Unbroken/Shield Bearer) Endurance
Crusader (Devoted/Bleak Walker) Focus
Battlemage (Devoted/Conjurer) ~I kicked the Warlock
Universalist (Eothas/Lifegiver)
Sorceror (Evoker/Fury)

Very tanky, very stronk. Only worry I have is reputation for the Shield Bearer, and the same for the Bleak Walker. I believe they clash a little bit, making the Bleak Walker most likely to suffer some penalties later (because of Eothas too). Unless I try to tread a very Grey line.

Just took down the Engwithan Titan, these are the stats only against the Engwithan Titan(+2 scarabs) because Battlemage wasn't there for the first encounter above Tikawara (I just subtracted previous posts stats).

Fighter(Devoted)/Paladin(Bleak Walker) Godlike Death Aumaua-Crusader (Shifting between Cleave and Warrior stance)
- Total Damage: 804.1
- Target Damage: 170.7
- Crits: 3
- Hits: 15
- Damage Taken: 128.8

Fighter(Unbroken)/Paladin(Shield Bearer) Human-Crusader (Shifting between Defender and Warrior)
- Total Damage: 156.6
- Target Damage: 54.8
- Crits: 2
- Hits: 15
- Damage Taken: 60.5

Fighter(Devoted)/Wizard(Conjurer) Dwarf-Battlemage (Same as Devoted Bleak Walker Crusader)
- Total Damage: 721.6
- Target Damage: 56.6
- Crits: 2
- Hits: 18
- Damage Taken: 175.7

Wizard(Evoker)/Druid(Fury) Orlan-Sorceror (Nuke)
- Total Damage: 335.7
- Target Damage: 31.2
- Crits: 10
- Hits: 31
- Damage Taken: 26

 

Priest(Eothas)/Druid(Lifegiver) Godlike Nature Elf-Universalist (Massive heals and some buffs)
- Total Damage: 466.6
- Target Damage: 24.2
- Crits: 1
- Hits: 35
- Damage Taken: 42.8

Massive survivability.

I even think I might toss the Sorceror and make another Priest/Druid or -/Druid and focusing on debuffs.

In Tyranny, the strongest build (but very repetetive) was to have one Super Saiyan Tank, and then 3 spell casters behind him. 1 Nuke, 1 Debuff, 1 Heal. Also, all of them having various flexibility.

So I would start a fight with double buff and single debuff.
Next action would be buff, debuff, nuke
Third would either be final action (debuff, nuke, nuke) or just a set up for final action (fourth)

That was against most grouped enemies, bosses were a bit longer and slower, because healing and tank never dying. You pretty much Level Dropped the enemies, gave yourself Level Power every encounter. Easy mode. I kind of want to try that for Deadfire :D

Maybe invite the idea of having two Crusader - Unbroken/Shield Bearer, engaging like 6-12 enemies, and then three Spellcasters to melt the enemy with xD

Edited February 10, 2018 by Osvir

[Kaylon]

While single class fighter is nearly the same or even better than in PoE1 and thus viable by itself, I wouldn't say the same about the paladin. Besides casters and fighters all the other  classes feel nerfed and weaker than their PoE1 counterpart because they were stripped of essential talents and were left only with diluted abilities instead...

[theBalthazar]

Consider Dragon Thrashed - without knowing any details or specifics if you were told that multi classes lose out on getting Dragon Thrashed you'd say it makes multiclass Chanters gimped. But in this game Dragon Thrashed is pretty damn terrible so losing it would not matter.

 

 

 

Dragon thrashed is now laughable 4 damage / 3s. (Was 10 damage / 3s)

 

= LOL... 60 % of nerf. Useless now.

 

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/The_Dragon_Thrashed,_The_Dragon_Wailed

 

If Obsidian wanted to nerf : 7 damage / 3s, was a better approach.

 

4 damage is crap.

Edited February 10, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Osvir]

 

Fighter(Unbroken)/Paladin(Shieldbearer of St Elcga)

 

'Nuff said. Equip with Medium- to Large Shield, Plate Armor, all of the Engagement talents, and you get a God Tank.

 

You will be very tanky yeah, but I'd doubt it that it's a God Tank. First of all, the engagement range is limited, once you've already engaged like 3 or 4 enemies, the rest will just pass by without engage your tank. Secondly, if the enemy AI is smart enough, they will just break engagement as your tank damage is not so high even with Unbroken bonus.

 

In summary, you are very tanky yeah, but you won't contribute too much to the team, specially without the late game abilities like Charge and Sacred Immolation.

 

 

Natural = 1 Engagement (I presume?)

Unbroken = +1 Engagement

Shield Bearer = +1 Engagement

Guardian Stance = +3 Engagement

 

So, 6 potential Engagement targets.

 

Many times it's like you are putting up an indestructible wall (especially in choke points). Try it out

[dunehunter]

 

Consider Dragon Thrashed - without knowing any details or specifics if you were told that multi classes lose out on getting Dragon Thrashed you'd say it makes multiclass Chanters gimped. But in this game Dragon Thrashed is pretty damn terrible so losing it would not matter.

 

 

 

Dragon thrashed is now laughable 4 damage / 3s. (Was 10 damage / 3s)

 

= LOL... 60 % of nerf. Useless now.

 

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/The_Dragon_Thrashed,_The_Dragon_Wailed

 

If Obsidian wanted to nerf : 7 damage / 3s, was a better approach.

 

4 damage is crap.

 

 

Yeah, it seems like all AOEs are nerfed to some degree.

 

Casters, cast time get nerfed = AOE get nerfed.

 

Chanter, dragon Thrashed get nerfed.

 

Barbarian, carnage get nerfed.

 

Monk, torment reach get nerfed.

 

Maybe this is tied to the encounter design in Deadfire. If we are facing less enemies per encounter, nerfing AOE and CC will keep the combat challenging. I just remember in White march every encounter there are so many enemies to kill, AOE is way too important. If in Deadfire there are less enemies every encounter and AOE and Afflictions maintains its powerness as it was in PoE 1, then encounter may be too easy.

 

Actually the late game of PoE 1, combat turns into same pattern that if I can spam Ninagauth's Shadowflame fast enough because there are just way too much enemies. Battle becomes pretty tedious after Aloth gets spell mastery in Shadowflame.

 

And that is also the reason why Rogue sucks in PoE 1, they don't have AOE as a striker. Because battle in PoE 1 relies too much on AOE, any class who is called Striker needs AOE, if they don't have AOE, sorry you sucks.

Edited February 10, 2018 by dunehunter

[divx]

As long a Cleaving Stance stays like it is, Charge doesn't matter, right?

 

It depends. Charge is very nice, but if you can multiclass two classes which get awesome stuff in the early to mid level tier I think it's much better for 75% of the whole playthrough than getting Charge once the game is in its final descent.

 

Depends how much game is left one you get Charge.

 

Same with Sacred Immolation.

Another thing to consider is the late game difficulty. In PoE on hard, by the time I got SI I was curbstomping pretty much every encounter without it. So while it was an awesome ability, it wasn't nearly as useful as the earlier talents and abilities.

[Boeroer]

True - for full party playthroughs.

 

Those late game abilities are pretty useful when going solo though.

 

But generally PoE and Deadfire are party based games - so you are right of course.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Boeroer

[theBalthazar]

That's why multiclass have already win the battle in POE2. Sadly.

 

Solo class will have two short lines with few spells (Highter = less spells) and not particulary powerful. I prophesy.