The Political Quinceañera Thread

[Chilloutman]

  On 2/26/2018 at 4:39 PM, Lexx said:

 

  On 2/26/2018 at 4:37 PM, Gfted1 said:

That picture always reminds me of Nicolas Cage.

 

What a surprise!

 

 

You don't say!?

[Gromnir]

  On 2/26/2018 at 5:15 PM, Ben No.3 said:

"Quit giving them the luxurious accommodations of prison life paid for by hard-earned American tax dollars."

 

 

 

...

 

had to double check to make sure we read correct.  if the American prisons which is housing violent offenders is deserving "luxury" description, then am thinking we found the root o' most crime in the US.  if for the ordinary citizen life nowadays is so harsh, so soul crushing such that pelican bay and folsom is comparative luxurious, then we weep for the American dream, 'cause is already dead.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps "guns kill people" bit largely ignores the reality o' lack o' viable deterrent, particular for massacre shooters, but also for the largest identifiable segment o' gun violence victims: suicides.  add accident?  moment o' passion or stupidity? etc.  is many gun deaths which would be impacted not at all if sentence were a one billion year term in the pit o' despair And have your lips chewed off by robot weasels with jagged rusted teeth. 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

:LOL, I didn't realize Ben was quoting in the first paragraph. All I could think is "OK who's got Ben's password?"

 

Now then, on to what brings me here today. I'm not going to dive into the minutia of gun control and stuff. It's been done to death. We all know where we stand and no one is budging. We were having a conversation about the student perpetrated school shooting  at work this morning and our department head (who is the smartest person in any room she walks into IMO) brought up a point. All of the students who did this had something in common: they were socially isolated and were not well treated, and often bullied, by their peers. Her take on it is the lesson to be learned here is for kids to treat each other with kindness and respect. That treating the kids that "don't fit in" with inclusion, friendliness, and respect will go a long way to alleviating social isolation.

 

I have to say she has a point. The problem is kids are nasty little S.O.B.s by nature. To change that would be the undertaking of a generation or more. Humans often don't treat each other well. When you get to adulthood it's a little better. People are not naturally friendly but they are usually polite. Not talking about online... that's a whole other thing. I am certain teaching kids to treat each other with kindness and respect might actually help. "Do unto others as you would have done unto you"... I'm certain I've read that somewhere. But I'm pretty sure that book is banned from schools, more is the pity.

 

On thing about her idea, it costs nothing, takes freedom and property from no one, and might help kids turn into better adults. If you think about it, the firearms have always been there. And they used to be a LOT easier to get. But school mass shootings, by students in particular, is new. It does beg the questions "What has changed?"

[Hurlshort]

Just to note, the bible is not banned in schools. I have a couple different versions in my class. Judeo-Christian principals are part of the curriculum, as are Islamic and Buddhist ones.

[Guard Dog]

Well, that was meant to be more sarcastic than factual

[smjjames]

Pretty sure that proverb isn't restricted to the bible, theres probably similar meaning proverbs if you just look around.

[Chilloutman]

you can´t rehabilitate someone who don´t want to be rehabilitated

[Gfted1]

Cain slew Abel over jealously. Coincidence?

[Gromnir]

  On 2/26/2018 at 6:55 PM, Guard Dog said:

The problem is kids are nasty little S.O.B.s by nature. 

 

pretty much explains the root problem, which ain't actual changed much since Gromnir were in school.  

 

as for school violence and sob kids, am thinking is worth observing how many o' the adolescent school shooters is from families which ain't norman rockwell fodder.  hardly a surprise, eh? single parents. absent parents. working parents. a couple generations past and it would be typical for mom to be stay-at-home, and divorce were far less common.  parenting were not a weekend and evenings gig a mere 30 years past.  some 21st century parents maybe see their kids one weekend a month and perhaps a bit longer during summer vacation.  no nightly sit down dinners where mom or dad ask billy "what happend at school today?" 

 

is not a shock when the sob kids is functional rearing themselves and often flubbing the job. am actual a bit surprised so many 21st century kids turn their lives 'round rather than ending up in prison, or worse, as millennials with entitlement issues.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[HoonDing]

"The problem is kids are nasty little S.O.B.s by nature."

 

Then why give them guns.

[Maedhros]

Kids are awesome. Kids want nothing more than to have fun, explore, play, and learn about the world. That's my experience as a kindergarten teacher.

 

It's the grownups who are the problem. Far too many parents don't know anything about parenting, even though many of them mean well. Modern kindergarten pedagogy makes sense, but most people seem to not be able to set positive boundaries for their kids. Too many refuse to acknowledge any sort of negative feeling the child has, it's no wonder they grow up to be so stressed as youths. Worst of all are the ones who just give them an iPad at the first sign of trouble...

[Guard Dog]

  On 2/26/2018 at 8:17 PM, Thingolfin said:

Kids are awesome. Kids want nothing more than to have fun, explore, play, and learn about the world. That's my experience as a kindergarten teacher.

 

It's the grownups who are the problem. Far too many parents don't know anything about parenting, even though many of them mean well. Modern kindergarten pedagogy makes sense, but most people seem to not be able to set positive boundaries for their kids. Too many refuse to acknowledge any sort of negative feeling the child has, it's no wonder they grow up to be so stressed as youths. Worst of all are the ones who just give them an iPad at the first sign of trouble...

Forget licensing guns, you should have to take a training course and get a license to have a kid!

[Gfted1]

/feelsgoodman

[Guard Dog]

Ben I was more referring to the social pressures rather than academic pressures. But you do bring up an interesting point. However, the world we live in is an outcome driven machine. I don't know any other way to quantify a student's understanding of a subject other than testing with a result that counts. How else do they demonstrate they have mastered a subject? We could dump the graduated grading system for a simple Pass or Fail grading system I guess? It would serve the same purpose.

 

  Quote

 

Perhaps we ought to look at the school shooters not as evil, but as tragic characters. Victims themselves, just as much as those they shoot. The violence may well be just a failed attempt to affirm ones own power to act outside of the bleakness of education, after years of exposure to and suffering under its system. If a shooter is a broken individual, that what breaks him is at fault.

 

OK, right here you went completely off the rails. Shooting people who are not at present harming you or yours IS just evil. There is only one reason that justifies the use of deadly force, the defense of self, family, home against an imminent threat. Even the play you cited as an example, the protagonist created his own downfall. He murder's his wife because she cheated on him. It's been done a million times and not once was there any virtue or sympathy in it. There is one obligation we all have to each other. Just one. And the obligation is not to batsht crazy and kill your fellow humans. 

[Hurlshort]

You can be a tragic character and be evil at the same time. I'd imagine it would be hard to get to the latter without the former. 

[Guard Dog]

I don't see how Woyzeck could be seen as innocent by anyone. Yeah he's has some s----y things happen. Having your wife cheat on you is bad. Getting you ass kicked by the man she's cheating with is worse. But when he pulled a knife on her he wasn't doing it because "society" forced him. He did because he was selfish. His anger and his humiliation meant more to him than her life. He left his own child an orphan because he was selfish. Some might call that tragic. For the wife and child certainly. But for Woyzeck? F--k him.

 

Same thing with the Parkland shooter. Yes he had been dealt a s-----y hand. The only people who loved him apparently passed away.The people at the school were not nice to him. He was an altogether sympathetic figure until he took  a rifle to a school and shot 17 people, 16 of which he didn't even know. Society didn't make him do it. He did because he was selfish SOB and he's gonna go show them! F--k him.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Guard Dog

[Gromnir]

  On 2/26/2018 at 8:17 PM, Thingolfin said:

Kids are awesome. Kids want nothing more than to have fun, explore, play, and learn about the world. That's my experience as a kindergarten teacher.

 

 

hogwash.  w/o constant parental supervision and correction, your kindergarten is  lord o' the flies meets hieronymus bosch painting by the second missed nap time. is a Fact that kids brain develop in stages, albeit some reach stages quicker than others. little kids is not all sunshine and smiles.  got it reversed. adults tend to project goodness onto children, and they do indeed have the potential for goodness, but particular for little crumb snatchers, even the capacity for ethical decision making doesn't develop until teens and even tweenties.

 

we will agree many parents don't know how to parent, but a large part o' that is 'cause the current generation o' parents were themselves raised so fundamental different.  kids ain't born with parenting skills, and the last couple generations has been learning increasing less 'bout parenting for reasons we already identified.  tv and internet is increasing raising kids more than is working moms and absentee dads. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps edit:  were unfair o' us to claim "most" parents don't know how to parent.  were indulging in the kinda hyperbole we frequent chastise others.  corrected. 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

I'd say yes there are, but they are rare. There are people that delight in the misery of other people. That find enjoyment in sadism (the real kind not the kinky kind) and that do harm or worse to others purely for their own pleasure.  If that isn't evil I don't know what is.

 

Maybe that bastard in Parkland isn't irredeemably evil. I certainly don't think he should be executed. But we certainly don't want him among us anymore. What he did, he did because he wanted to. No one compelled him.

[HoonDing]

"Adolescents find themselves in a place where their work is devoid of any meaning other than to be better than others for the sake of being better."

 

Good thing adult life is a whole lot different.

[Guard Dog]

  On 2/26/2018 at 10:39 PM, Ben No.3 said:

 

  On 2/26/2018 at 10:00 PM, Guard Dog said:

I'd say yes there are, but they are rare. There are people that delight in the misery of other people. That find enjoyment in sadism (the real kind not the kinky kind) and that do harm or worse to others purely for their own pleasure. If that isn't evil I don't know what is.

 

Maybe that bastard in Parkland isn't irredeemably evil. I certainly don't think he should be executed. But we certainly don't want him among us anymore. What he did, he did because he wanted to. No one compelled him.

„want“ seems like a very socially driven instinct to me

 

As a noun maybe. As a verb (in English at least in Deutsche I believe they are two separate words) want is the epitome of self.

[Maedhros]

  On 2/26/2018 at 9:56 PM, Gromnir said:

 

  On 2/26/2018 at 8:17 PM, Thingolfin said:

Kids are awesome. Kids want nothing more than to have fun, explore, play, and learn about the world. That's my experience as a kindergarten teacher.

 

 

hogwash.  w/o constant parental supervision and correction, your kindergarten is  lord o' the flies meets hieronymus bosch painting by the second missed nap time. is a Fact that kids brain develop in stages, albeit some reach stages quicker than others. little kids is not all sunshine and smiles.  got it reversed. adults tend to project goodness onto children, and they do indeed have the potential for goodness, but particular for little crumb snatchers, even the capacity for ethical decision making doesn't develop until teens and even tweenties.

 

we will agree many parents don't know how to parent, but a large part o' that is 'cause the current generation o' parents were themselves raised so fundamental different.  kids ain't born with parenting skills, and the last couple generations has been learning increasing less 'bout parenting for reasons we already identified.  tv and internet is increasing raising kids more than is working moms and absentee dads. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps edit:  were unfair o' us to claim "most" parents don't know how to parent.  were indulging in the kinda hyperbole we frequent chastise others.  corrected. 

 

? It goes without saying that kids can be hellraisers if the grownups don't do their job. The toddlers need their sleep, structure, lots of love, and limits on their behaviour... My point was that kids are awesome if you give them the chance to be, by being a responsible adult.

[Blarghagh]

Hm, time for a refresh. Brb.