SUGGESTION: Stat Changes

[Lokys]

The new split of damage from Might to Strength and Resolve doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why not add Spell damage to Intelligence, since it is such a staple spellcaster stat in most roleplaying games, and move Duration or Area Increase from Int to Resolve. This could be explained that your character's strong presence/willpower amplifies the effectiveness/duration of effects or extends to a larger area. I think these stat changes would be more roleplay friendly and would still make all stats desirable and useful.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Lokys

[Katarack21]

Here's a question: If they change the stats this severely, will we be able to re-roll our stats if we bring a character through with our save? Having a nuke caster who dumped res for might would suddenly suck a *lot*.

[Lokys]

Here's a question: If they change the stats this severely, will we be able to re-roll our stats if we bring a character through with our save? Having a nuke caster who dumped res for might would suddenly suck a *lot*.

How I understood it, we're importing the decisions our characters made and not the character itself, so you'll be able to change your stat allocation.

[daven]

Just remove stats all together. They've caused nothing but endless anger to you lot on here.

[Katarack21]

I like stats. I just like having stats appropiate designated for the system I'm making a character for. It's a simple fact that some builds would suffer tremendous losses in combat effectiveness under the proposed stat system.

[Night Stalker]

Here's a question: If they change the stats this severely, will we be able to re-roll our stats if we bring a character through with our save? Having a nuke caster who dumped res for might would suddenly suck a *lot*.

Josh confirmed in the last stream that you will be able to respec your character if you import a PoE1 save.

[Wormerine]

So magic damage coming from Intelligence or physical strength makes sense but from resolve not? Come on.

I understand the "high-deflection-for-mages-for-free" worry and people who dislike having to make a choice instead between desirable stats, but this is just highly subjective fluff preference. Strenght of spiritual damage could come out of strong willpower.

Surprisingly, it seems like I was one of the few, who thought that putting physical and magic damage into the same stat was the biggest weakness of original system.

[MortyTheGobbo]

I'm unsure about moving spell damage to resolve, but this particular demand makes no sense to me whatsoever. Why is intelligence increasing damage rather than duration/area better in any way? Why should resolve, a wobbly and poorly-defined stat at the best of times, modify duration/area rather than damage and healing? We're talking about magic here, so it works the way the game says it does. I think people are just getting really hung up on stat names and calling their knee-jerk reactions "role-playing".

 

Most dedicated spell-casters are going to need both, either way. A caster who only cares about CC, buffs, debuffs etc. might be able to disregard Resolve (emphasis on might, I don't know), but even a blaster wants good durations and AoE.

Edited December 4, 2017 by MortyTheGobbo

[CENIC]

I think aiming for "no bad builds" is more realistic than "no dump stats."
 
Minmaxers are going to find a dump stat. You can't stop them. And you shouldn't. That should be a viable way to play.
 
In the same vein, I want players like myself, who cringe at the idea of lowering any stat below 10, to have viable builds as well.
 
I support a change to attributes like this:
 
Strength (STR) - +3% Physical Weapon Damage, +2 Fortitude
Constitution (CON) - +5% Health, +1 Deflection, +2 Fortitude
Dexterity (DEX) - +3% Action Speed, +2 Reflex
Perception (PER) - +1 Accuracy, +2 Reflex
Intellect (INT) - +6% Area of Effect, +/-5% Inspiration/Affliction Duration (Cast and/or Received), +2 Will
Resolve (RES) - +3% Spell Damage/Magical Weapon Damage/Healing, +2 Will

 

I think it's OK for bows to be affected by STR, but not firearms, crossbows, or arbalests. Those need to be tweaked so they are valuable without STR.

[rjshae]

The attribute use only needs to make sense within the context of the setting and be consistent therein. Thinking about how it "should" work in the real world, or in a D&D setting, would make it an entirely different type of game.

[PneumaticFire]

From a roleplaying perspective, it really depends on how spells are perceived to work.

Are they constructed like mathematics or a complicated interpretation of a 'foreign' language that requires intense mental concentration and aptitude? - Intelligence

 

Are they something, which once invoked/constructed/created, requires willpower and presence/energy to expand, direct maintain and project? - Resolve

 

I feel that duration and area of affect would be resolve related, while intelligence would be casting times and number of spells.  Paladin/Priest/Druid would be more resolved based.  Mage more intelligence - cipher could be either.

 

Of course this isn't exactly how its being implemented.

 

As said above, it is speculative as it's fantasy - magic, but I think we can apply real world analogies and comparisons like above to make it more believable.

 

It comes down to balancing game mechanics with concepts like above.

[Katarack21]

So magic damage coming from Intelligence or physical strength makes sense but from resolve not?

Oh, for **** sake.

 

MIGHT MEASURED THE POWER OF YOUR SOUL GOD DAMMIT

[wolfstriked]

Easy Cataracts,a huge amount of people were really bothered by might=damage.Just cause you need might to mean damage doesnt etc etc.Let Sawyer give it a shot for goodness sake!

Edited December 4, 2017 by wolfstriked

[AndreaColombo]

A lot of people are annoyed by the unnecessary MIG nerf that doesn’t really make RES much better

[Katarack21]

I'm much more annoyed by the fact that five years later people *still* don't understand what Might represented.

[Wormerine]

 

So magic damage coming from Intelligence or physical strength makes sense but from resolve not?

 

Oh, for **** sake.

MIGHT MEASURED THE POWER OF YOUR SOUL GOD DAMMIT

It’s nice to know that you found explanation which works for you, but:

 

“Might represents a character's physical and spiritual strength, brute force as well as their ability to channel powerful magic. During interactions, it can be useful for intimidating displays and acts of brute force. In combat, it contributes to both Damage and Healing as well as the Fortitude defense.”

 

At no point in the game was it used to represent the “POWER OF YOUR SOUL.”

[Katarack21]

 

 

So magic damage coming from Intelligence or physical strength makes sense but from resolve not?

Oh, for **** sake.

MIGHT MEASURED THE POWER OF YOUR SOUL GOD DAMMIT

It’s nice to know that you found explanation which works for you, but:

 

“Might represents a character's physical and spiritual strength, brute force as well as their ability to channel powerful magic. During interactions, it can be useful for intimidating displays and acts of brute force. In combat, it contributes to both Damage and Healing as well as the Fortitude defense.”

 

At no point in the game was it used to represent the “POWER OF YOUR SOUL.”

 

Emphasis mine. It's quite explicit that Might is not just physical strength, but also ones "spiritual strength", which is the power of ones soul as it is, in fact, the power of ones soul that one uses to cast spells, use focus, employ wounds, and even use knockdown as a fighter. It is your soul power *AND* physical strength that is measured by might; the stat measures both things, but those things are separate from each other.

 

Whoever scripted the interactions, though, ****ed it up.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Katarack21

[CENIC]

I remember someone talking about how the writing team wasn't on the same page about Watchers vs Ciphers and as a result some of the Cipher reactive dialogue ended up sounding relevant to ANY Watcher character...

 

I feel like Might ended up being the same. It wasn't intended to be treated like Strength, but that got lost in translation somewhere in the huge team working on it, so you ended up with dialogue checks for high Might treating you like a roided up Big McLargeHuge.

[KDubya]

If they are going about changing the stats that worked very well in the last game I'd suggest the following:

 

Instead of Resolve controlling magical damage, have Intellect take that on and have Resolve control AoE and Duration. Move the deflection over to Perception.

 

The benefit of my proposal is that pretty much all melee guys like increased duration on buffs, Now they need to have a high Intellect. The stat they can dump is Resolve so they end up as Timid Geniuses. With my change the melee guys could add to Resolve and maybe dump Intellect so they end up as brave idiots. I much prefer my melee to be brave idiots rather than timid geniouses.

 

Moving the deflection to Perception gets rid of the whole 'mages will be tankier than others' argument.

[Katarack21]

If they are going about changing the stats that worked very well in the last game I'd suggest the following:

 

Instead of Resolve controlling magical damage, have Intellect take that on and have Resolve control AoE and Duration. Move the deflection over to Perception.

 

The benefit of my proposal is that pretty much all melee guys like increased duration on buffs, Now they need to have a high Intellect. The stat they can dump is Resolve so they end up as Timid Geniuses. With my change the melee guys could add to Resolve and maybe dump Intellect so they end up as brave idiots. I much prefer my melee to be brave idiots rather than timid geniouses.

 

Moving the deflection to Perception gets rid of the whole 'mages will be tankier than others' argument.

Doesn't Perception still influence accuracy? Deflection and Accuracy on a single stat might be to powerful.

[Lamppost in Winter]

Would Intellect controlling only Will and Magic Damage not make it a dump stat for most non-caster builds? 

[Katarack21]

Solution might be to move accuracy to intelligence.

[KDubya]

Perception having both accuracy and deflection at least makes sense in that being more perceptive makes you better at hitting and at not being hit.

 

The new system will make either Strength or whatever handles spell damage (Resolve is what the devs are proposing) a dump stat, nothing will be changing that fact. Based on that I'd rather have Intellect and the new Resolve switched so that melee can be brave idiots instead of timid geniuses, mechanically that changes nothing but it makes a lot of roleplaying sense to me.

[Wormerine]

It is your soul power *AND* physical strength that is measured by might; the stat measures both things, but those things are separate from each other.

Whoever scripted the interactions, though, ****ed it up.

Exactly. And what I don’t like about “might” attribute is that even though those two things are separate there is no way to separate them - therefore shorthand “you can’t strong spells cause you’re buffed”. Might be a side effect rather than cause, but something that bugged me nonetheless.

 

Now “strength” is measured by Strength and “spiritual strength” is measured by Resolve. While possible muddying up what was an elegant system gameplay wise, it does seem a little bit more defined to me.

[Wormerine]

Perception having both accuracy and deflection at least makes sense in that being more perceptive makes you better at hitting and at not being hit.

 

The new system will make either Strength or whatever handles spell damage (Resolve is what the devs are proposing) a dump stat, nothing will be changing that fact. Based on that I'd rather have Intellect and the new Resolve switched so that melee can be brave idiots instead of timid geniuses, mechanically that changes nothing but it makes a lot of roleplaying sense to me.

Someone perceptive might not have fast reactions. You might perceptively notice a blow coming and appreciate technique but it probably won’t stop you from being smacked.

 

Resolve is still desirable for melee characters (just like strength could be for casters in certain builds). Resolve will influence non weapon based abilities so it goes beyond cypher/Druid/priest/mage. All classes will have to choose between melee damage (strength), ability damage (resolve) and ability duration (intelligence), accuracy (perception) and speed (dexterity). On paper it looks good but whenever this new division will play well with existing class design and balance remains to be seen.

 

Oh and constitution. Constitution is kinda lame.