WIZARDS - feedback at first sight

[dam]

 

Hey guys, couple of questions for people playing the beta:

 

Is the Shadowflame spell in the game? Can you learn it on level up?

 

Is Arcane Veil a spell now? If so, what level?

 

Since wizards take longer to cast now, does dex become the 2nd most imp stat for most builds after intelligence?

 

DEX only affects your recovery AFAIK, not the actual action time.

A spell that takes long to cast, will still take long.

 

Correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

 

 

'kay tested just now, DEX does affect both cast time, and recovery time.

MIG affects damage for some spells only.

INT affects duration + area for some spells only.

PER affects your accuracy, but does not grant additional Pen whatsoever.

[dam]

Do they all show up automatically in the grimoire? I assume you still have to choose which ones you want active.

 

Nope, you just get access to your regular spells, plus the ones you didn't know already which are featured in the grimoire.

 

To be honest, I'm not sure I like this very much.

 

Like, not sure *at all* .

 

 

The reason one played a sorcerer in BG2 was that, despite the inability to scribe spells, you got many more spellcasts per rest.

Here, you're getting per-encounter spells, but with a very restricted repertoire.

 

Really not sure I like this.

[cheesevillain]

 

Here, you're getting per-encounter spells, but with a very restricted repertoire.

 

 

 

 

Wizards still get far more spells than any other class, just as soon as they pick up a couple of grimoires. 

I really hated how in PoE, wizards all ended up with identical spell lists, since they ended up knowing every spell.

Edited November 17, 2017 by cheesevillain

[ghostwriter]

'kay tested just now, DEX does affect both cast time, and recovery time.

 

 MIG affects damage for some spells only.

INT affects duration + area for some spells only.

PER affects your accuracy, but does not grant additional Pen whatsoever.

 

 

Hey thanks dude, appreciate it. Unless it's a bug that seems to be a big change to might and int.

 

Can you elaborate a little? Which spells that you tested are no longer affected by int and might?

[dam]

 

'kay tested just now, DEX does affect both cast time, and recovery time.

 

 MIG affects damage for some spells only.

INT affects duration + area for some spells only.

PER affects your accuracy, but does not grant additional Pen whatsoever.

 

 

Hey thanks dude, appreciate it. Unless it's a bug that seems to be a big change to might and int.

 

Can you elaborate a little? Which spells that you tested are no longer affected by int and might?

 

 

IDK, it was pretty much the same in POE1 already.

 

Like, take the Mirror Image line of spells (or arcane veil, whatever), these have a static numerical component.

You do not get heightened deflection from a higher MIG.

 

The same goes for the Merciless Gaze line of spells, you do not get higher bonii from having 20 MIG, you still get the same hit/crit conversion.

[Nail]

Very, very, very long casting time.

Enemies just change placement when you still cast some AoE spell

Only fine in situations when front line holding and enemies are stationary.

I don't like casting time so far, feels weird and weak.

I'm trying PotD...

Edited November 17, 2017 by Nail

[ghostwriter]

Ah ok, I think I misunderstood... I thought you meant like some spells which would have been influenced by might/int in the first game are no longer being affected in Deadfire.

[LuxuriantOak]

Here's to hoping that the scribe spell and the editing of grimoires will be added at a later date, it is a beta after all ...

If they removed it ... I'll cry, like others have said I always enjoyed flling up my pokedeck*AHEM*spellbook with new spells as I played.

-got to catch them all

[dam]

Here's to hoping that the scribe spell and the editing of grimoires will be added at a later date, it is a beta after all ...

If they removed it ... I'll cry, like others have said I always enjoyed flling up my pokedeck*AHEM*spellbook with new spells as I played.

-got to catch them all

 

Scribing spells is hardly compatible with the notion of choosing them at level up, don't you think ?

 

What good was that level up, if all that did is grant you access to a spell you can scribe 20 minutes later ?

[Heijoushin]

I'm just kind of wondering... are the spells that are in the beta everything we're going to get? I ask because the top level (level 5) wizard spells don't seem to be too amazing. 

I don't know, maybe they were trying to keep all the levels sort of balanced so that level 1 spells don't become useless later on, but I like to see some distinct power progression. Wizards should be flinging pebbles at level 0/1 and dropping meteorites at level 6/7.

[Falk Schütze]

Id like to give feedback for the Wizard subclasses.

 

They all gain +1 power level for their chosen spell school and an additional ability. The Conjurer can summon a Familiar that gives a small buff for 1 minute. Honestly, I think every wizard should be able to get a familiar by default and it should not be a summon but a permanent companion, like the Ranger gets. NWN1 allowed the familiar to be useful in battle, NWN2 allowed the familiar to at least cast ranged / melee touch spells in addition to giving a permanent buff (while alive). The 1 minute 'pet' familiar in PoE2 sound very boring and uninspired.

The Enchanter has 'Free Action'. It removes these dexterity afflictions: Hobbled / Immobilized / Paralyzed and prevents all of these for another 10 seconds. Quite useful. The Evoker has a 30% chance to do double damage with Evocation spells for the entirety of battle, basically yielding +30% base damage, which is OP. The Illusionist has 'Mirrored Image' (+30 deflection for 1 minute, 2nd level spell) auto-cast on him when first attacked once per encounter, which is also slightly OP. The Transmuter can shapeshift into an Ogre (for 30 seconds) once per Encounter which seems okay-ish.

But the main problem is that all these subclasses remove two full spell schools from the Specialists repertoire as well as cause all remaining schools to get +20% recovery time after casting. This is much more than even a Red Wizard of Thay had to sacrifice. The added recovery time should be removed. Only one spell school, meaning the lorewise opposite spell school, should be prohibited from Specialists. Some of the Druid and Priest subclasses show how such a system works (they loose only one spell school). Both the Illusionist and even more so the Evoker should receive minor version of their currently OP abilities.

All Wizards, subclass or not, should be able to summon a permanent (until killed) familiar that has uses outside giving a buff. The Conjurer should be given an appropriate ability instead E.g. summoning duration. Also, all Wizards really need to be able to learn some summoning (Conjuration) spells by default. I can really only think of one summoning spell, 'Mauras Writhing Tentacles' (level 4 spell). That is not even closely appropriate, especially for a Conjurer. Please add several lower and higher level summoning spells.

 

It would be nice if a Priest of Magran receives the Evokers bonus to power level (higher spell Penetration) and +30% damage for her Magran-themed spells. They are listed as Evocation.

These subclasses would be positively affected:
- Priest of Magran +1 Evocation Power and +30% Evocation damage from Evoker
- Priest of Wael +1 Illusion Power from Illusionist
- Pries of Eothas +1 Element Penetration and +20% Element Range from Fury (Druid Subclass)
- Tricksters +1 Illusion Power from Illusionist

These subclasses would be negatively affected (maybe remove these multiclass choices):
- Priest of Magran / Conjurer or Transmuter loses her spells
- Priest of Wael / Conjurer or Enchanter loses her spells
- Tricksters / Conjurer or Enchanter loses her spells

 

One final note: The Wizard is currently not showing his Grimoire outside of casting a spell. I always liked Grimoires, some looking and filled with unique spells, being visible as a distinct feature of the Wizard and hope it gets reintroduced into PoE2.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Falk Schütze

[Heijoushin]

...

 

Schutzengel! Welcome back! 

[Tartantyco]

I think removing the grimoire spell learning is good. It puts more focus on having and cycling between several grimoires, and makes the grimoires themselves more valuable. In PoE1, I'd usually just have one grimoire, put all my spells in it, and occasionally switch the spells around. In Deadfire, I actually hang on to other grimoires and switch them mid-combat to get this or that spell.

[ghostwriter]

They all gain +1 power level for their chosen spell school and an additional ability. The Conjurer can summon a Familiar that gives a small buff for 1 minute. Honestly, I think every wizard should be able to get a familiar by default and it should not be a summon but a permanent companion, like the Ranger gets. NWN1 allowed the familiar to be useful in battle, NWN2 allowed the familiar to at least cast ranged / melee touch spells in addition to giving a permanent buff (while alive). The 1 minute 'pet' familiar in PoE2 sound very boring and uninspired.

---------------

 

One final note: The Wizard is currently not showing his Grimoire outside of casting a spell. I always liked Grimoires, some looking and filled with unique spells, being visible as a distinct feature of the Wizard and hope it gets reintroduced into PoE2.

 

Disagree with both these points... Definitely don't want a permanent familiar companion following my character around. One of the reasons I never take rangers(and appreciate the Ghost Heart subclass) is because I don't want some pet in the party to deal with.

 

Also I like seeing the grimoires only during combat. Looks cleaner, for lack of a better word...

[rothamon81]

Perception seems the most important stat now for mages, especially since debuffs (for defenses) also depend on it, forget intelligence for an evoker who does only single time damage. A fireball with 6 sec casting time at 20 might does nothing if it missed. (happened) Melee and ranged chars have a lot of attacks to balance accuracy vs deflection, and they get weapons with higher enchantments which increase accuracy. But where is the staff/wand that increases accuracy for spells? (also dearly missed in PoE1)

 

The empower - Skill does increase a skill by 3(?) power levels yet it doesn't show what that means(damagemultiplier/penetration/duration)? I'll hope/expect this will be improved along with the tooltips for damage ranges. Also why would I empower a single spell if you especially later you can get like 9 additional spells later, or for a multiclass up to 2x8 or 2x7 skills/spells? (not sure which max power level is possible for multiclass)

 

The familiar spell is crap, either make it not random, or not taking up a lvl 1 spell. The evoker special I didn't even notice. Would it be possible to change it to something else? Illusion spell at start is nice to have, transmutation I didn't use, but all of them seem not very viable at later levels.

 

And no talents for mages? None at all? Why? No casting speed vs damage increase vs penetration? Would seem so obvious to me to let a player choose.

 

About grimoire: What is the point of static spell selection? Do I have to reroll my character at the tavern again the moment I find a better/higher spell selection because some of it I chose myself? Why can't I change the spells (at least with some sort of crafting material (maybe that is already intended)) in a book when I'm becoming a big and powerful mage at some point? Lorewise: who is writing those books anyway if a dragon killing, god-offing being can't do it?

[demeisen]

​

What is the point of static spell selection?... Why can't I change the spells (at least with some sort of crafting material (maybe that is already intended)) in a book when I'm becoming a big and powerful mage at some point?

 

​This something I really hope is addressed by the final version.  Tuning spell loadouts to best fit the expected upcoming combats is a key element of wizard strategy.  Removing it negates a major strategic dimension of the class: now I have to play how the game decided I should, rather than invent my own ideas based on my party's abilities and how I plan for combat to unfold.

​

​I wouldn't mind, though, if the ability to do so was a learnable skill, but not too late in the game, or it wouldn't matter for much of the game's content.

​

[zeee]

Perception seems the most important stat now for mages, especially since debuffs (for defenses) also depend on it, forget intelligence for an evoker who does only single time damage. A fireball with 6 sec casting time at 20 might does nothing if it missed. (happened) Melee and ranged chars have a lot of attacks to balance accuracy vs deflection, and they get weapons with higher enchantments which increase accuracy. But where is the staff/wand that increases accuracy for spells? (also dearly missed in PoE1)

 

The empower - Skill does increase a skill by 3(?) power levels yet it doesn't show what that means(damagemultiplier/penetration/duration)? I'll hope/expect this will be improved along with the tooltips for damage ranges. Also why would I empower a single spell if you especially later you can get like 9 additional spells later, or for a multiclass up to 2x8 or 2x7 skills/spells? (not sure which max power level is possible for multiclass)

 

The familiar spell is crap, either make it not random, or not taking up a lvl 1 spell. The evoker special I didn't even notice. Would it be possible to change it to something else? Illusion spell at start is nice to have, transmutation I didn't use, but all of them seem not very viable at later levels.

 

And no talents for mages? None at all? Why? No casting speed vs damage increase vs penetration? Would seem so obvious to me to let a player choose.

 

About grimoire: What is the point of static spell selection? Do I have to reroll my character at the tavern again the moment I find a better/higher spell selection because some of it I chose myself? Why can't I change the spells (at least with some sort of crafting material (maybe that is already intended)) in a book when I'm becoming a big and powerful mage at some point? Lorewise: who is writing those books anyway if a dragon killing, god-offing being can't do it?

 

 

I completely agree with this one! Overall i have to say I am not a fan of the ability tree of the wizard. Having it only consist of spells is not a good thing. Especially if I a spell is chosen that later is found in a grimoire and therefore the previous choice is made redundant. What i really would like to see is some meaningful passives, maybe a perk that improves dual wielding of implements. or some modal buffs that use per encounter charges of the relevant level.

 

The ui shows a "edit grimoire button" so i hope this feature will show up in this current state wizard just is not fun to play.

 

On a side note: why is the tiniest of all the implements (rod) two handed?

[DozingDragon]

Also, is it just or do too many spells target deflection? Without having equipment quality bonuses that seems a bit out of whack especially when spells don’t typically have a graze range now.

[cheesevillain]

About grimoire: What is the point of static spell selection?

 

 

You don't have static spells. A wizard still has more flexibility in choosing and changing their spells throughout the game and even in the middle of combat by switching Grimoires.

[zeee]

 

About grimoire: What is the point of static spell selection?

 

 

You don't have static spells. A wizard still has more flexibility in choosing and changing their spells throughout the game and even in the middle of combat by switching Grimoires.

 

But you cannot control which spells are in the grimoire, you might end up with grimoires full of spells you pick during level up, not much flexibility unless you start meta gaming...

[demeisen]

​​

 

About grimoire: What is the point of static spell selection?

 

 

You don't have static spells. A wizard still has more flexibility in choosing and changing their spells throughout the game and even in the middle of combat by switching Grimoires.

 

 

​But you can't select what's in the grimoire, so you can't select your own spell loadout - only pick from what's given to you.  Maybe it should better be called "semi-static", but anyway, it removes a key tactical dynamic of the class, which was being able to select my own spell set according to what I expected to encounter, and the tactics I wished to use.  Of all the grimoires I found in POE1, there was never one which was set up anything close to what I wanted, even if coupled with a small pool known by the character (and you don't really know without meta-gaming which you should best learn, since you don't know what will be in grimoires you encounter).

​

​I don't think it's a good change.

​

​Edit - hah, zeee just pipped me in saying the same thing

Edited November 18, 2017 by demeisen

[ghostwriter]

Sawyer mentioned on twitter that they were going to try giving priests and druids an additional spell on hitting a new power level so they could choose 3 per level total for single class. Personally I'd like to see this applied to wizards as well, and reducing the set spells in grimoires to 1 per level instead of 2. It would allow for more personalized  builds, flexibility and then all traditional casters would follow a similar leveling structure.

 

Between unique set spells(shadowflame, crushing doom etc.) and interesting, powerful passives I think there would still be a big incentive to switch up grimoires with this change.

[Mikeymoonshine]

Losing 2 schools does seem a little harsh, might be less so if there were more spells available for each school which there could well be later down the line. I do like not being able to learn spells from grimoires for the most part but it would be nice to be able to copy spells from one grimoire into another, with a limit on how many you can have from each level so you aren't just copying all of them into one book. It would be annoying to have a situation where a grimoire has a spell you really want but all the other spells you know already or u can't cast, I could especially see that issue with an arch mage's grimoire that has unique spells that now cannot be learned.

[Skaddix]

Lose 2 Schools, Get A 20% Recovery Penalty on another 2, and Bonuses only on 1 is just unfair especially if spellcasting is slower.

[cheesevillain]

​​But you can't select what's in the grimoire, so you can't select your own spell loadout - only pick from what's given to you.  Maybe it should better be called "semi-static", but anyway, it removes a key tactical dynamic of the class, which was being able to select my own spell set according to what I expected to encounter, and the tactics I wished to use.  Of all the grimoires I found in POE1, there was never one which was set up anything close to what I wanted, even if coupled with a small pool known by the character (and you don't really know without meta-gaming which you should best learn, since you don't know what will be in grimoires you encounter).

​

​I don't think it's a good change.

​

​Edit - hah, zeee just pipped me in saying the same thing

 

 

You can (A) select the spells you know, (B) select the Grimoire you want from the ones you've already collected, and ©, switch that Grimoire with others in combat if you need a different spell. So you certainly can "select your spell loadout", and you can do more than "only pick what's given to you", since the mix of Grimoires will cover all the spells in the game.

 

Base class wizard are still the most flexible base class in the whole game. It's the only class where you will be able to cast every single spell they're capable of in a single play through. It currently looks like the total will be well over a hundred spells.

If that's not enough for you, you can Multiclass Wizard and Priest and receive by the last level 31 known spells (& Holy Radiance, which basically makes 32), before you add in Grimoires.

 

Playing through the beta as my mainplayer wizard, I've found 4 different Grimoires, and I already have more spells than I know what to do with.