Political Twelve Monkeys

[ShadySands]

 

"There is nothing I hate more on this earth than drunk drivers. "

 

O RLY? You hate them more than people who shoot up churches committing mass murder? Okay then.

 

Ok, but drunk drivers are in the top 5. 

I've lost more family members to drunk drivers than to any other non-natural cause so I'm with you on that

Edited November 5, 2017 by ShadySands

[injurai]

Not only was there never an excuse for drunk driving, there is even less today in the era of lyft/uber?

[ShadySands]

I saw that some sites are naming the shooter citing anonymous sources but it still hasn't been made official as far as I know

 

Also, nothing makes me lose faith in humanity faster than checking out the comments section. I really should know better by now

[smjjames]

One person who was talking to CNN said that there was a rumor going around (it's a small town of 600 people, rumors are going to spread fast, especially in the age of social media) of who might be the shooter. The person talking to CNN said they knew the family members of the room red shooter, but not the rumored shooter. She didn't want to say who the rumor mentioned as she didn't want to disrupt the investigation, probably a smart move on her part.

 

It's entirely possible those sites are referring to the rumor or rumors.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Well it's not being blamed on muslims yet so I assume it was a white guy.

[ShadySands]

Authorities identified the shooter as Devin Kelley, 26, of New Braunfels, Texas, which is about 35 miles from Sutherland Springs, federal and state law enforcement sources told ABC News.

Edited November 6, 2017 by ShadySands

[smjjames]

Maybe it was a Muslim white guy? Not claiming that the person was one, just throwing that (to some people) contradiction out there.

 

Anyways, the guy was white and mid 20s and was wearing all black tactical type gear, whether it matches that rumor going around or the name(s) already mentioned on other websites remains to be seen. If he is from that small town, it's a hell of a grievance that he was hiding.

[smjjames]

Authorities identified the shooter as Devin Kelley, 26, of New Braunfels, Texas, which is about 35 miles from Sutherland Springs, federal and state law enforcement sources told ABC News.

If this is accurate, and the main authorities haven't even released a name yet (not the ones CNN showed a press conference of) then I REALLY wonder what he had against that church.

[Volourn]

"Maybe it was a Muslim white guy?"

 

People often forget the simple fact that Muslim is no more a race than Christian is. You can be white and Muslim just like you can be black and Christian. Like the last church shooting where some racist nutball  attacked a mainly black church.

 

Of course, it likely isn't a Muslim. A town of 600? Wow.  What  a piece of crap this guy is.

[ShadySands]

According to this article his mother in law had a PO box in that town but it's probably best to just wait and see what comes out after a few days

[injurai]

According to this article his mother in law had a PO box in that town but it's probably best to just wait and see what comes out after a few days

 

But that isn't good for news ratings, you must tune in now!

[smjjames]

Dunno why they didn't identify the guy at the press conference, CNN has now confirmed that ID.

 

 

According to this article his mother in law had a PO box in that town but it's probably best to just wait and see what comes out after a few days

Yeah, this shooting just seems strange all around. I don't mean 'conspiracy theory' strange, it's just.... the whole overkill of it for one, and a church.... and the black tactical suit.... Edited November 6, 2017 by smjjames

[Zoraptor]

Are we gonna talk about the paradise paper thing?

If I’m reading this correctly, amongst other things the US secretary of trade has made private business with a Russian company owned by a relative of Putin.

 

And so many rich people not paying their taxes

 

As always, feel free to translate

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/paradise-papers-datenleck-belastet-trump-minister-trudeau-und-die-queen-a-1176585-amp.html

 

If owning some shares in a company that does some business with another business that is partly owned by someone on a sanctions list is a big deal then the vast majority of rich people of any type are going to be in trouble. People don't do that level of checking, nor should they. I'd bet any amount in the world that HRC has the same level of business relations with some Russians as that- and god forbid any politician in the UK go to a Chelsea match, since the club is owned by someone with multiple connections to people on the sanction list.

 

You'd kind of hope that these sort of revelations would have some effect on tax havens and trusts and all the other tricks used by rich people to hide their wealth (and which normal people don't have access to to hide theirs), but turkeys don't vote for an early christmas and most politicians' donations come from the people who use tax havens and the like.

[Guard Dog]

According to AP the shooter was dishonorably discharged from the Air Force. That means according to the Gun control Act of 1968 he's not allowed to buy or own firearms. 

[smjjames]

How well enforced is that act though? So, this is another guy who wasn't supposed to have guns in the first place, so, how did he acquire them?

[Guard Dog]

Authoritarian Socialism is working wonders in Venezuela. https://www.thedailybeast.com/zoo-animals-on-the-menu-as-venezuelans-starve

 

I know what they mean about rabbits though. A while back I bought a few to raise for the pot. Next thing you know they have names, a house, take treats from my hand.... and died of old age years later. 

[Guard Dog]

How well enforced is that act though? So, this is another guy who wasn't supposed to have guns in the first place, so, how did he acquire them?

 

Who knows at this point. Heck I am not even saying that much is even true. Just that AP is saying it. About the discharge part at least. I know about the Gun control Act of 1968 because I'm interested in that kind of stuff. AP is pretty reliable though.

 

The only thing I can say for sure is we'll know a lot more tomorrow & Tuesday than we know today about this bastard and his motivations. 

[smjjames]

Authoritarian Socialism is working wonders in Venezuela. https://www.thedailybeast.com/zoo-animals-on-the-menu-as-venezuelans-starve

 

I know what they mean about rabbits though. A while back I bought a few to raise for the pot. Next thing you know they have names, a house, take treats from my hand.... and died of old age years later.

 

The husband of the woman in that article is a real piece of ****, abandoning his family.

 

On the discharge thing, one source (daily beast via vox) https://www.vox.com/2017/11/5/16610084/san-antonio-texas-church-shooting says he was discharged for 'bad conduct' but the specifics of that aren't public yet. Not sure if you can have a bad conduct discharge and still have it be honorable, you'd know a lot more about how it works than I do.

[Elerond]

 

How well enforced is that act though? So, this is another guy who wasn't supposed to have guns in the first place, so, how did he acquire them?

 

Who knows at this point. Heck I am not even saying that much is even true. Just that AP is saying it. About the discharge part at least. I know about the Gun control Act of 1968 because I'm interested in that kind of stuff. AP is pretty reliable though.

 

The only thing I can say for sure is we'll know a lot more tomorrow & Tuesday than we know today about this bastard and his motivations. 

 

 

This houston chronicle's article says that enforcement level isn't necessary very high -- "Anyone can sell a firearm online or at a gun show without a license, and they need not conduct a background check. The same is true in 31 other U.S. states."

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/local/explainer/article/gun-laws-regulations-firearms-8381025.php

[smjjames]

I wonder how much the NRA would complain if the government enforced the gun laws? including having background checks at gun shows which could be how someone who isn't supposed supposed to have them, got them.

[Guard Dog]

 

Authoritarian Socialism is working wonders in Venezuela. https://www.thedailybeast.com/zoo-animals-on-the-menu-as-venezuelans-starve

 

I know what they mean about rabbits though. A while back I bought a few to raise for the pot. Next thing you know they have names, a house, take treats from my hand.... and died of old age years later.

The husband of the woman in that article is a real piece of ****, abandoning his family.

 

On the discharge thing, one source (daily beast via vox) https://www.vox.com/2017/11/5/16610084/san-antonio-texas-church-shooting says he was discharged for 'bad conduct' but the specifics of that aren't public yet. Not sure if you can have a bad conduct discharge and still have it be honorable, you'd know a lot more about how it works than I do.

 

 

There is a Bad Conduct Discharge and a Dishonorable Discharge. There is also a General Under Other Than Honorable too. That last one is usually when you lied about something on your enlistment contract that disqualifies you from service and they catch you.

 

The first two are bad but there is a world of difference between them. A Bad Conduct discharge is usually following a Court Martial or NJP over something bad enough they want you out but not so bad they send you to the brig or Federal prison. Assaulting an officer, stealing hardware, stuff like that will get you a BCD. They are not uncommon. It does not look good on a resume and it disqualifies you from some (but not all) veteran benefits but it does not follow you like it's ugly big brother.

 

A Dishonorable discharge is rare. And you really have to f--k up to get one. Treason, desertion, cowardice in the face of the enemy, murder, grand larceny, that kind of thing. If he got a DD there is a good chance he saw brig time if not prison time first. This follows you every where you go. It's as bad as a felony conviction. If this is how someone got out of the service I suggest moving to another country and changing their name. Because they are done here in the US. No guns, no vote, no VA benefit of any kind, no federal jobs of any kind, etc. It's seriously bad news. 

Edited November 6, 2017 by Guard Dog

[Guard Dog]

I wonder how much the NRA would complain if the government enforced the gun laws? including having background checks at gun shows which could be how someone who isn't supposed supposed to have them, got them.

 

You know I'd be totally fine with background checks on private sales. But I'm obligated to dig my heels in because every restriction is merely a segue into the next restriction. "They" don't want common sense gun laws. "They" want prohibition and confiscation. When you make a compromise it has to be with the understanding that both sides are dealing in good faith. We don't have that with the left in this country. At least not on this issue. 

 

If the powers that be came out tomorrow and said "let's ban all hand guns but that will be it. There will never be another restriction of any kind" I'd buy in if I believed it. But I don't. Because gun control is not about safety or even about guns in the end. And every step no matter how "reasonable" is just the beginning of the next step. It's like boiling a frog. Drop him into a pot of boiling water and he jumps out. But put  him in a pot of cool water and slowly turn up the heat by the time he realizes what's happening he's cooked. It's like that. 

[Volourn]

If you don't believe GD on that whole 'slippery slope' thing. Just ask smokers how poo pooing the 'slippery slope' is dumb.

 

I'm no smoker but the anti smoking laws (despite it being a legal product) are absolutely nazish, ghoulish, and plain evil). And, every time a new law is proposed  to limit it or punish smokers even further it is framed as 'reaosnable'   now orries about it being restricted.

 

Now, there are places that are trying to take helath care away from smokers (as well  as overweighters). EVIL.

 

 

Slippery slope. It is real.

[smjjames]

So, apparently the guy was discharged for assaulting his wife and child, wouldn't domestic violence also preclude him from owning guns? Though I think that's only if you're convicted.

 

Not sure how he'd go from domestic violence to shooting up people though.

[Ben No.3]

I find it fascinating how many people get emotional over the gun issue. Of course there will be more successful homicides and suicides if everyone has a gun.

Moreover, a state monopoly on violence is something good.

 

Should the guns have never been there in the first place? Difficult to say, historically. Is the situation now vastly different from when the legislation was passed in terms of gun technology? Yes. Should the guns go? In principle, yes. Practically, that will be one of the most difficult if not the most difficult law to ever pass.Perhaps our American friends could grant some insight has to how such legislation might work; other of course than „I will shoot at any police officer who tries to take away my guns.“

 

So, if we can’t ban guns, how are we gonna keep people from putting them to their intended use?

Edited November 6, 2017 by Ben No.3