Update #40 - Multiclassing Part II

[algroth]

So only MC at the start and always only "half" the power of each class.... Well i mb need 2 rethink my MC idea. Don't really wanna play Bad Mage+Bad Cypher. Well this day was horrible from the start, don't know why i decided this part of it will be better

 

Not quite. A multi-classed character only sacrifices two power levels by the time they're level 20, meaning it's closer to each class being at three quarters the power of their single-class equivalents, not half. Of course there is going to be some trade-off when you choose to multi-class instead of specializing in one specific class, and I don't think this is too bad.

Edited September 20, 2017 by algroth

[Enoch]

with a 5-man party limit, and no generalist/godless priest announced, our single-class priest choice appears to have become more difficult.  not a bad thing, but am typical making considerable use o' all schools/types o' priestly spells when playing a poe priest. priest/paladin will definite get a looksee.

 

does makes us wish for a godless priest more.  am seeing thematic benefits o' godless particular in the poe setting and such a 'subclass' would allow for a generalist spell caster option such as will be available to wizards and druids who not wanna take a subclass.

 

HA! Good Fun!

A guess:  Xoti is going to break the rules, allowing most players to evade this problem.  We already know that she's a non-player-selectable Priestess of Gaun.  I'm guessing that she'll get access to all the Priest spells-- they won't want to have a school of spells that the vast majority of players (i.e., everyone who doesn't either play as a Priest or unexpectedly multiclass another NPC into Priest) will never see. 

 

Of course, that does little to allay your concerns regarding single-classed Watcher Priests. 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Enoch

[Dopsim]

 

So only MC at the start and always only "half" the power of each class.... Well i mb need 2 rethink my MC idea. Don't really wanna play Bad Mage+Bad Cypher. Well this day was horrible from the start, don't know why i decided this part of it will be better

 

Not quite. A multi-classed character only sacrifices two power levels by the time they're level 20, meaning it's closer to each class being at three quarters the power of their single-class equivalents, not half.

 

And this is why half was in quotation marks. Cause i didnt wanna waste time 2 elaborate. I don't need 3|4 Cypher. And pls don't spin it like i am complaining where is trade of. This make it sound like you think i am stupid  and i don't wanna think what about you 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Dopsim

[AndreaColombo]

And this is why half was in quotation marks. Cause i didnt wanna waste time 2 elaborate. I don't need 3|4 Cypher. And pls don't spin it like i am complaining where is trade of.

 

May I ask what your character concept was?

 

The previous system also didn't allow MC characters to reach full power in any individual class. You could strike a balance at 10/10 and be meh at two classes, or go for an uneven split like 15/5 or 19/1 where you'd suck at one class, and be strong at the other while not being as strong as you could've been had you gone single class.

[Dopsim]

 

And this is why half was in quotation marks. Cause i didnt wanna waste time 2 elaborate. I don't need 3|4 Cypher. And pls don't spin it like i am complaining where is trade of.

 

May I ask what your character concept was?

 

The previous system also didn't allow MC characters to reach full power in any individual class. You could strike a balance at 10/10 and be meh at two classes, or go for an uneven split like 15/5 or 19/1 where you'd suck at one class, and be strong at the other while not being as strong as you could've been had you gone single class.

 

Mage 19|C1. I need a mage who have some slight cypher power which hurt his magic a little,  

(Sorry about the part what was here before, just got frustrated) 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Dopsim

[algroth]

 

 

So only MC at the start and always only "half" the power of each class.... Well i mb need 2 rethink my MC idea. Don't really wanna play Bad Mage+Bad Cypher. Well this day was horrible from the start, don't know why i decided this part of it will be better

 

Not quite. A multi-classed character only sacrifices two power levels by the time they're level 20, meaning it's closer to each class being at three quarters the power of their single-class equivalents, not half.

 

And this is why half was in quotation marks. Cause i didnt wanna waste time 2 elaborate. I don't need 3|4 Cypher. And pls don't spin it like i am complaining where is trade of. This make it sound like you think i am stupid  and i don't wanna think what about you 

 

Sorry, I didn't mean it that way. What I meant was that that there was always going to be some power trade-off for each class of a multiclassed set as opposed to their single-class equivalents. I share some of your frustration inasmuch as I'd love to be able to access the highest-level abilities for each of these classes but if so I could see how single classes could be made superfluous in the process.

[Osvir]

Transmaster for the transmutation specialist subclass for wizard is a... interesting subclass name. I don't have a problem with it, just an interesting choice of subclass name.

 

Lol the mathing sequences.

 

Awesome update. :D

 

edit: How come Sister of the Reaping Moon is available for monk in the vid? Or is that just for testing?

Maybe a hint of ability to edit in more "Kits"? I remember it was a popular thing to do in Baldur's Gate modding.

[Dopsim]

 

 

 

So only MC at the start and always only "half" the power of each class.... Well i mb need 2 rethink my MC idea. Don't really wanna play Bad Mage+Bad Cypher. Well this day was horrible from the start, don't know why i decided this part of it will be better

 

Not quite. A multi-classed character only sacrifices two power levels by the time they're level 20, meaning it's closer to each class being at three quarters the power of their single-class equivalents, not half.

 

And this is why half was in quotation marks. Cause i didnt wanna waste time 2 elaborate. I don't need 3|4 Cypher. And pls don't spin it like i am complaining where is trade of. This make it sound like you think i am stupid  and i don't wanna think what about you 

 

Sorry, I didn't mean it that way. What I meant was that that there was always going to be some power trade-off for each class of a multiclassed set as opposed to their single-class equivalents. I share some of your frustration inasmuch as I'd love to be able to access the highest-level abilities for each of these classes but if so I could see how single classes could be made superfluous in the process.

 

Again i am sorry but where did i say i wanted high level ability of 2 classes?  And where did i say i was frustrated i can't be best at 2 of them? I said i didn't in the quote you used

It was a stupid idea to post here probably. Just was a bit frustrated by the update (and no not because of the reason you named). 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Dopsim

[Gfted1]

[Osvir]

How many 5 man parties? 1030⁵

 

I got this answer in an online calculator. What does the E stand for? (1030*1030*1030*1030*1030)

 

1.159274074E15

[algroth]

 

 

 

 

So only MC at the start and always only "half" the power of each class.... Well i mb need 2 rethink my MC idea. Don't really wanna play Bad Mage+Bad Cypher. Well this day was horrible from the start, don't know why i decided this part of it will be better

 

Not quite. A multi-classed character only sacrifices two power levels by the time they're level 20, meaning it's closer to each class being at three quarters the power of their single-class equivalents, not half.

 

And this is why half was in quotation marks. Cause i didnt wanna waste time 2 elaborate. I don't need 3|4 Cypher. And pls don't spin it like i am complaining where is trade of. This make it sound like you think i am stupid  and i don't wanna think what about you 

 

Sorry, I didn't mean it that way. What I meant was that that there was always going to be some power trade-off for each class of a multiclassed set as opposed to their single-class equivalents. I share some of your frustration inasmuch as I'd love to be able to access the highest-level abilities for each of these classes but if so I could see how single classes could be made superfluous in the process.

 

Again i am sorry but where did i say i wanted high level ability of 2 classes?  And where did i say i was frustrated i can't be best at 2 of them? I said i didn't in the quote you used, 

 

Alright, sorry, I'm misinterpreting what you wish to say. Are you instead saying that we cannot choose how much predominance we give to either one class or the other, and are forced to go for a 50/50 split between the two instead of, say, 20/80 or the likes?

[Dopsim]

Alright, sorry, I'm misinterpreting what you wish to say. Are you instead saying that we cannot choose how much predominance we give to either one class or the other, and are forced to go for a 50/50 split between the two instead of, say, 20/80 or the likes?

 

Yes, i wanted 19 mage/1 Cipher. I actually was really into this idea after MC announcement. Just sad it died, o well.

I am sorry to, i didn't make myself clear enough.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Dopsim

[algroth]

 

Alright, sorry, I'm misinterpreting what you wish to say. Are you instead saying that we cannot choose how much predominance we give to either one class or the other, and are forced to go for a 50/50 split between the two instead of, say, 20/80 or the likes?

 

Yes, i wanted 19 mage/1 Cipher. I actually was really into this idea after MC announcement. Just sad it died, o well.

I am sorry to, i probably didn't make myself clear enough.

 

No worries, sorry I didn't get you the first time. If I understand correctly from what I see in the video and the above explanation I think you *are* able to give greater predominance to one class over the other, as you'll be given a chance to unlock abilities from either class' trees as you level (and you could therefore dump all your resources into the wizard tree instead of the cipher tree), but yeah, you won't be able to make a 95/5 split between classes the way you could before. I personally think it's an okay tradeoff for what makes for a more solid, comprehensible system but I can get the frustration when a character idea you have goes falls on the wayside because of it.

[Gfted1]

I got this answer in an online calculator. What does the E stand for? (1030*1030*1030*1030*1030)

 

1.159274074E15

 

e (mathematical constant)

[MortyTheGobbo]

Haven't we known that we'd get AD&D-style multiclassing for a while? I really can't see the buffet-style kind would ever work. It's like the outline says - it opens up too many ways to create a weak character and make strategic choices. That's exactly what happened in 3e D&D. Picking class levels that you think fit your character will leave you with an inconsistent mess, while strategically dipping into a particular class can be pretty powerful (sorcerers grabbing a Paladin level for Charisma to saves). So I'm glad we won't get that in Deadfire.

[crunluath]

Oh no, that leap... I love PoE for the classic wRPG feel but that leap is way too jRPG for my tastes. 

[algroth]

Oh no, that leap... I love PoE for the classic wRPG feel but that leap is way too jRPG for my tastes. 

 

It was already there in The White March. I like it myself.

[ShadySands]

Haven't we known that we'd get AD&D-style multiclassing for a while? 

I don't think so or at least I didn't know that.

 

I thought we were gettiing 3rd edition style multiclassing until this update dropped and I try to keep on top of things though I'm not perfect (despite what everyone says) and I could have missed it.

Edited September 20, 2017 by ShadySands

[crunluath]

 

Oh no, that leap... I love PoE for the classic wRPG feel but that leap is way too jRPG for my tastes. 

 

It was already there in The White March. I like it myself.

 

Ah yes, I see that now. Haven't touched the Barbarian class too much. And to each their own, of course, I just find it a bit cringey. Had the same reaction to a similar move introduced to Dragon Age 2 for 2H warrior, just a little silly looking.

[Insidous]

 

I got this answer in an online calculator. What does the E stand for? (1030*1030*1030*1030*1030)

 

1.159274074E15

 

e (mathematical constant)

 

 

it has nothing to do with the constant,  E15 means times 10^15

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_notation#E-notation

 

Great update! I was looking forward to multiclass my priest of wael with a rogue. Now i don't know if I should do wael + assassin or simply trickster. Too bad that trickster and wael don't seem to synergize very well. Same goes for either combined with wizard or illusionist. I feel like giving subclasses access to other classes abilities makes multiclassing somewhat redundant 

[SaruNi]

Interesting that some subclasses get access to features from other classes. That's a bit of an overlap between multiclasing and subclasses. An Illusionist/Trickster multiclass would probably be overkill.

 

My first reaction was "that's a terribly lazy and boring way to implement the Trickster archetype, and with multiclassing as an option it's especially boring... is it so hard to come up with some more Rogue abilities?"....

 

But if a Trickster multiclasses into something other than Wizard/Illusionist, it's like having the abilities of three classes. Or for maximal illusion a Beguiler/Trickster.... A weaker sneak attack is a huge penalty, so stealth/shadowing beyond needs to be significantly improved for the Trickster to really be worthwhile. (Alternately they could improve Rogue disables or reserve the Trickster as a sort of "picks locks and avoids combat" subclass but both those ideas are terribly boring.)

[Leferd]

Still trying to wrap my mind around the idea that Serafen is a witch.

[AndreaColombo]

He isn't. He is either a Barbarian or a Cipher. You can make him a Witch, if you want, but he isn't one by default.

[AndreaColombo]

Interesting bits here: https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/165555197431/does-the-new-multiclassing-system-still-allow

[draego]

Interesting bits here: https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/165555197431/does-the-new-multiclassing-system-still-allow

 

This is what i was mentioning earlier. You can still specialize in one class heavily even though you multi class making you feel more like first with a little bit of the second. This is good because even within a given multiclass you can have different playstyles and strategies since in multiple runs you can take completely different abilities. Boeroer will have his work cut out for him.

Edited September 20, 2017 by draego