Politics - Jason X

[Volourn]

"Come off of it will you? Yes we have disagreements among each other, but we don't really need to go there with the sniping."

 

Why are you trolling? Gromnir did nothing wrong. LMAO

[smjjames]

"Come off of it will you? Yes we have disagreements among each other, but we don't really need to go there with the sniping."

 

Why are you trolling? Gromnir did nothing wrong. LMAO

 

I may have misunderstood the dynamics.

[Malcador]

"you do realize those voices in your head ain't real, yes?"

 

L0L Certain Libtards *did* call for a military coup. Of course the military ignored the calls but that isn't the point. People *did* call for a military coup. Just deal with it that there are some psycho people out there (on both sides).

 

 

R00fles!

 

Yeah but usually when you say "there were calls..", there's an implication that it's not from random nutters.   I did find one supposed call for a coup which...is a bit reaching to label it so.

 

""If he’s fired by Mr. Trump, or is attempted to be fired by Mr. Trump, I hope, I really hope that our members of congress, our elected representatives, will stand up and say enough is enough, and stop making apologies and excuses for things that are happening that really flaunt, I think, our system of laws and government here,” Mr. Brennan said."

 

Kind of weak for a coup when that seems to be pretty much Congress doing what it is permitted to, not necessarily having the Marines seize control and appoint Mattis President.

[HoonDing]

WOW, Müller got Trump's tax returns!

[Bartimaeus]

A military coup would be a disaster for everyone. Unless there is an existential/doomsday crisis, the removal of a president must follow the laws that have been set out unless we wish the end of our democracy and/or another civil war. The military should not become a separate branch of the government that is allowed to usurp the others, just as the others should not be allowed to usurp each other. We would be little more than a military state at that point. No, unless our very existence is being threatened because of the president, they must be removed the same way they were put there - lawfully. If that means we have to wait until the law does its due diligence, then so be it.

Edited September 2, 2017 by Bartimaeus

[Fiach]

Wow! This is the most mature and we'll behaved political discussion I've ever seen on a game forum! By page 2 on GOG it would be closed down for fear the forum would catch fire from all the flaming!

 

I'm not American (Irish), but looking at American politics from the outside is really weird.

 

Some observations

 

The Electoral College system was fine until Hillary lost.

Democrats don't believe in Democracy

Liberals are anything but liberal.

 

I'm not being a smart ass, that's what it looks like to outsiders

 

Anyway, great thread!

[Bartimaeus]

The Electoral College system was fine until Hillary lost.

 

It was actually a pretty sore point in 2000 as well when Gore (D) lost the election while holding a .5 lead (not as gigantic of a lead as Hillary's 2.1, but sizeable enough). As for the rest of what you said, with no explanation/context, I'm not sure what you mean. (e: oh, the last point: yes, american liberalism is not the same as classic liberalism)

Edited September 3, 2017 by Bartimaeus

[Wrath of Dagon]

So just today I saw a Houston Police MRAP, presumably participating in flood rescues. This is a vehicle that Rand Paul says should never be given to local police, because why would local police possibly need a high clearance all terrain vehicle?

 

As far as the White House, Trump should fire Kelly and replace him with Bannon, bring back Lewandowsky and Gorka, and replace Tillerson with John Bolton. Trump needs loyal people who'll carry out his agenda, not a bunch of establishment backstabbers who undermine him every step of the way.

[injurai]

It was actually a pretty sore point in 2000 as well when Gore (D) lost the election while holding a .5 lead (not as gigantic of a lead as Hillary's 2.1, but sizeable enough). As for the rest of what you said, with no explanation/context, I'm not sure what you mean. (e: oh, the last point: yes, american liberalism is not the same as classic liberalism)

 

I think liberalism world wide is quite different than classical liberalism. Classical liberalism seems to have been replaced by global neo-liberalism, what gets called liberalism now is mostly just social liberalism. But I'm not sure how American liberalism differs from say European liberalism.

[Orogun01]

 

It was actually a pretty sore point in 2000 as well when Gore (D) lost the election while holding a .5 lead (not as gigantic of a lead as Hillary's 2.1, but sizeable enough). As for the rest of what you said, with no explanation/context, I'm not sure what you mean. (e: oh, the last point: yes, american liberalism is not the same as classic liberalism)

 

I think liberalism world wide is quite different than classical liberalism. Classical liberalism seems to have been replaced by global neo-liberalism, what gets called liberalism now is mostly just social liberalism. But I'm not sure how American liberalism differs from say European liberalism.

 

They say Patriarchy with an European accent

[Gromnir]

So just today I saw a Houston Police MRAP, presumably participating in flood rescues. This is a vehicle that Rand Paul says should never be given to local police, because why would local police possibly need a high clearance all terrain vehicle?

 

makes perfect sense.  buy military vehicles, with an effective road life o' a decade, for jic a 500 year storm turns houston into a lagoon.

 

maybe makes more sense, perhaps, to plan for the national guard and us military to more quick respond to such disasters with their vehicles and equipment rather than using 500 year storm to explain the expense of using, maintaining and explaining military hardware.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

It was actually a pretty sore point in 2000 as well when Gore (D) lost the election while holding a .5 lead (not as gigantic of a lead as Hillary's 2.1, but sizeable enough). As for the rest of what you said, with no explanation/context, I'm not sure what you mean. (e: oh, the last point: yes, american liberalism is not the same as classic liberalism)

 

I think liberalism world wide is quite different than classical liberalism. Classical liberalism seems to have been replaced by global neo-liberalism, what gets called liberalism now is mostly just social liberalism. But I'm not sure how American liberalism differs from say European liberalism.

 

There is no social democrat presence in America aside from maybe Bernie Sanders, while there is some in Europe with Melenchon and Corbyn. Thus American liberalism or neo-liberalism with rainbows is the supposed left contrast to conservative liberalism or neo-liberalism with Jesus.

[Fiach]

 

The Electoral College system was fine until Hillary lost.

 

 

It was actually a pretty sore point in 2000 as well when Gore (D) lost the election while holding a .5 lead (not as gigantic of a lead as Hillary's 2.1, but sizeable enough). As for the rest of what you said, with no explanation/context, I'm not sure what you mean. (e: oh, the last point: yes, american liberalism is not the same as classic liberalism)

If you mean the democracy bit?

 

There are many forms of democracy, in UK its first pat the post, in Ireland, we have a vote transfer system called Proportional Representation, in USA, it's Electoral College. The democrats don't seem to accept the fact that Donald Trump was democratically elected, because they say Hillary got more votes. That would be ok in England, where it's first past the post, but the election was in America, where a different democratic system prevails.

 

That's why I say the democrats don't seem to believe in Democracy.

 

Hope that made it a bit less muddy

[Gromnir]

 

 

The Electoral College system was fine until Hillary lost.

 

It was actually a pretty sore point in 2000 as well when Gore (D) lost the election while holding a .5 lead (not as gigantic of a lead as Hillary's 2.1, but sizeable enough). As for the rest of what you said, with no explanation/context, I'm not sure what you mean. (e: oh, the last point: yes, american liberalism is not the same as classic liberalism)

If you mean the democracy bit?

 

There are many forms of democracy, in UK its first pat the post, in Ireland, we have a vote transfer system called Proportional Representation, in USA, it's Electoral College. The democrats don't seem to accept the fact that Donald Trump was democratically elected, because they say Hillary got more votes. That would be ok in England, where it's first past the post, but the election was in America, where a different democratic system prevails.

 

That's why I say the democrats don't seem to believe in Democracy.

 

Hope that made it a bit less muddy

 

you make a common european mistakes.

 

first, our fed government is far less powerful than most people (including some americans) realize.  our individual state and local governments has more influence on day-to-day life o' citizens than does the fed.  in fact, the fed is specific prohibited by our Constitution from the kinda interference which is commonplace in ireland and elsewhere. our democracy happens much closer to home, and you ain't even considered local and state elections.  

 

furthermore, the electoral college is only a means by which our President is elected.  as much as europeans fail to understand the limits o' our fed government, confusion 'bout the Presidency is even greater.  is not the President who writes our laws but Congress.  the President's powers is most vital in regards to foreign affairs and administration of the executive branch of government, but even then, the executive is a massive organization staffed by career bureaucrats who, for practical if not legal reasons, are largely insulated from Presidential whim. the President is not our Prime Minister, or anything even close. don't let tv and movies mislead you.

 

use electoral college to somehow represent american democracy is, at best, myopic.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Bartimaeus]

He was elected under our electoral college system, and the electoral college system is a way of implementing democracy...or at least attempting to. Clearly, some people do not feel as though it is a just or effective system, and I would count myself among them...especially seeing just how badly the current system can be gamed, with nearly 3 million more votes going to the loser (note: this is not a new phenomenon, and both parties have been focusing most of their efforts on certain battlegrounds over others for a long time because of this issue, but this election was a strong reminder just how bad it can actually get). Given that the Democrats have now lost two presidential elections in recent history - one to a not great candidate, and another to a disastrous candidate that also formed control over the other two branches of government - you'd think they'd have more interest in election reform. And some people do have interest, certainly...but not enough for any change to be on the horizon from what I can tell.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Bartimaeus

[injurai]

They say Patriarchy with an European accent

 

I wouldn't say that mindset was even a defining aspect of liberals but the "that which is negative is male" or "that which is male is negative" crowd has certainly increased it's market share.

 

There is no social democrat presence in America aside from maybe Bernie Sanders, while there is some in Europe with Melenchon and Corbyn. Thus American liberalism or neo-liberalism with rainbows is the supposed left contrast to conservative liberalism or neo-liberalism with Jesus.

 

I think the social democratic presence is much stronger with the younger generation, but once they hit the job market it will be interesting to see if that spike keeps up. Peak social democracy may have already crowned.

[Malcador]

So just today I saw a Houston Police MRAP, presumably participating in flood rescues. This is a vehicle that Rand Paul says should never be given to local police, because why would local police possibly need a high clearance all terrain vehicle?

 

Why don't they just buy monster trucks then ? Those can handle high water and are probably cheaper.   And they're macho, so that'll be great for the cops.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Malcador

[Bartimaeus]

I think I literally read a news story on a "fleet of monster trucks" doing just that recently...

Edited September 3, 2017 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I think the social democratic presence is much stronger with the younger generation, but once they hit the job market it will be interesting to see if that spike keeps up. Peak social democracy may have already crowned.

Given the age of millennials, it's probably hitting the job market that caused the spike.

[Gromnir]

 

So just today I saw a Houston Police MRAP, presumably participating in flood rescues. This is a vehicle that Rand Paul says should never be given to local police, because why would local police possibly need a high clearance all terrain vehicle?

 

Why don't they just buy monster trucks then ? Those can handle high water and are probably cheaper.   And they're macho, so that'll be great for the cops.

 

 

as a way of honoring the example set by the commander in chief, we got just the thing.

 

 

 

 

have a whole fleet o'  ______ wagons... y'know, in case o' disaster.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited September 3, 2017 by Gromnir

[Hurlshort]

As others so eloquently pointed out, I am not sure how a once in a lifetime flood justifies major military hardware for the police.

[Malcador]

As others so eloquently pointed out, I am not sure how a once in a lifetime flood justifies major military hardware for the police.

 

 

[SonicMage117]

So... just curious, is everyone here on the Trump-hate wagon?

 

And what if he got impeached and you got someone worse? I know you can say that's impossible but you've been wrong before.

 

Anyways, was just wondering as I chill with my wanton lass

[Fiach]

 

 

 

The Electoral College system was fine until Hillary lost.

 

 

It was actually a pretty sore point in 2000 as well when Gore (D) lost the election while holding a .5 lead (not as gigantic of a lead as Hillary's 2.1, but sizeable enough). As for the rest of what you said, with no explanation/context, I'm not sure what you mean. (e: oh, the last point: yes, american liberalism is not the same as classic liberalism)

If you mean the democracy bit?

There are many forms of democracy, in UK its first pat the post, in Ireland, we have a vote transfer system called Proportional Representation, in USA, it's Electoral College. The democrats don't seem to accept the fact that Donald Trump was democratically elected, because they say Hillary got more votes. That would be ok in England, where it's first past the post, but the election was in America, where a different democratic system prevails.

That's why I say the democrats don't seem to believe in Democracy.

Hope that made it a bit less muddy

you make a common european mistakes.

 

first, our fed government is far less powerful than most people (including some americans) realize.  our individual state and local governments has more influence on day-to-day life o' citizens than does the fed.  in fact, the fed is specific prohibited by our Constitution from the kinda interference which is commonplace in ireland and elsewhere. our democracy happens much closer to home, and you ain't even considered local and state elections.  

 

furthermore, the electoral college is only a means by which our President is elected.  as much as europeans fail to understand the limits o' our fed government, confusion 'bout the Presidency is even greater.  is not the President who writes our laws but Congress.  the President's powers is most vital in regards to foreign affairs and administration of the executive branch of government, but even then, the executive is a massive organization staffed by career bureaucrats who, for practical if not legal reasons, are largely insulated from Presidential whim. the President is not our Prime Minister, or anything even close. don't let tv and movies mislead you.

 

use electoral college to somehow represent american democracy is, at best, myopic.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Thanks for taking the time to explain the system more clearly, you are correct, I don't fully understand the mechanics.

 

But, regardless of it being fit for purpose, it is the "only game in town" and until that is changed, I would suggest that Donald Trump won democratically within that systems rules?

[Fiach]

J

So... just curious, is everyone here on the Trump-hate wagon?

And what if he got impeached and you got someone worse? I know you can say that's impossible but you've been wrong before.

Anyways, was just wondering as I chill with my wanton lass

I think the American people had a horrific choice to make, in the choice, of the last two standing, I would have voted for Donald Trump, Hillary, for the myriad reasons that have already been thrashed out during the election and her actions while in government, prior to the election, scares the beejeesus out of me and I'm not even American Edited September 3, 2017 by Fiach