Politics - Jason X

Ben No.3 · September 30, 2017

I'll do my best to answer elaborately. You deserve it.

Please also note that I can, of course, only speak for myself.

My proposal is that God does not exist. This is part of a scientific world view, but I can't really prove anything but the absence of proof.

Philosophically however, the core is a rejection of god, not a belief in his non existence. You see, even if God should exist, I would not alter my stance on wether to follow him.

Essentially, I see a few important aspects of God that make me not want to follow him.

1. Following god does not allow for morality.

2. Following god makes you inherently unfree.

Let's handle this one after the other.

Firstly, we can not have morality if we follow god. Mortality is a societal product. It is essentially little more than the way we organise society. And of course, this changes over time, but the important part is that firstly, the final justification for morality is us ourselves and secondly, we might adapt it if we see fit to. We do not need a god to justify morality, because it doesn't change anything. Essentially, we need to belief in the notion of morality, and this is all morality needs to exist. If we, as a society, have constructed a certain fabric, we can pretend like it has some divine justification for existing; but really the reason it is a sustainable system is because we at least tolerate it. As a logical consequence: of morality depends on our toleration, we can always change whatever we perceive as morally right.

Now, we can examine the way our morality functions further. At the core, we seem to be a big believer in what you might call "slave morality". That is, the notion that the exploitation of one human by another is inherently wrong; we tend to sympathise with the slaves, not the owners; but at least the slaves themselves side with themselves. Because the slaves firstly have the numbers and secondly the society they live in depends on them, their notions of what is right will, eventually, win over. Translate "slave" into whatever the lower class of a society is, and this pattern emerges further. "For Freedom's battle once begun, // Bequeathed by bleeding Sire to Son, // Though baffled oft is ever won" is a true statement.

You might argue that the problem is that our owns understanding of morality is deeply shaped by the society we grow up in and that therefore, we aren't really free. This is true for an individual. On a societal level however, we are much less confined. What limits a society's ability to develop morality, i.e. a certain way of organising itself, is the conditions in which it exists and the technological progress it has archived. Within this room, a society is, more or less, free to develop in any given way. And so we are free as a whole to develop and live by a certain morality; even though only little of that freedom is carried down to the individual level. But we do, individually, have the ability to decide to follow a society's morality or to advocate for a different one. And because, to a lesser or greater degree, everyone does this, we have the ability to collectively produce morality, ideally as the harmonical sum of few people's understandings and ideals.

If we assume that we would follow an existing God, this would no longer apply. Should this be true, we would not be developing our morality over time and in accordance with the circumstances, but we would submit entirely to a higher being and it's essentially random commands. Claiming that god gives morality is like saying giving a robber your money if he holds a gun at you is a free decision. You never had a real choice, and it is ridiculous to say that it was one. Saying that morality can only exist with god is simply the highest degree of submission; a dedicated refusal to make an effort to think freely. This of course does not apply to most cases. Indeed, rarely anyone actually follows their gods commands; they fend to follow primarily what they see fit to follow and then try to base it on god on what is ultimately just a rhetorical level.

Aside from ordering you what to do, god tends to reward you with an afterlife, if you chose to follow him. The notion of an afterlife seems attractive to many, because it caters to the idea that life has a meaning. And more generally, the notion of a meaning of life is widely accepted.

This notion has, to a lesser degree, the exact same problem as the belief in a god. If life has a meaning, all your actions suddenly become actually meaningful. And trust me, that is not something you would want. It would place an incredible burden on us, not directly forcing us but definitely causing us to act with extreme caution, and it would cause us to refuse any sort of experimentation within our lives, simply because it would be too risky. A meaning of life would confine us to a very large degree, we would be left with very little room, i.e. intellectual and practical room, to move in without the crushing fear of missing the meaning. Through this, it would also kill any notable form of individuality for the same reason. The idea of the meaning of life is a remainder of more religious times, but it is just as much a cage as religion is.

Just my two cents.

Guard Dog · September 30, 2017

Everyone please re-read post 690. That is a spot on anlaysis of Donald Trump and done in less than 300 words.

injurai · September 30, 2017

@Gromnir

I agree with what you've said. I agree that what you describe is one of the many failings by which people approach Trump, perhaps the essential one. I certainly don't mean to do the same, so let me expand. You choose to speak of Trump holistically, I wanted to point out a factor of him and called it half. Trump is a confidence man and his brand is part of what he uses to sell people on him. The other half is that he is a creature of the swamp. By not stating the other half, I can see where one may see room left open to suggest he operates with Machiavellian clarity. The truth of the matter is the other half is the swamp, and the swamp is a Machiavellian engine unto itself. He need not hold any capabilities beyond that of your average college graduate. Here merely needs access to pulleys and leavers that most will never have access to, the Machiavellian machine. The amount of poor and brilliant mathematicians that have gone to automate the large wealth transferring machines of the banks sits under Trump as his foundation. I prefer to think of Trump in halves because it illuminates a reality to his presence at society. He wants the public to see him holistically, and he wants to govern what that whole is. For those to ignore what's behind the curtain. What's beneath the tip of the iceberg. Below the pompous brand and persona is a shrewd entitled megalomaniac. Many see it, but the game is to turn those people into liars at the scale of public opinion. It's the game of brands. To convince us that the half is the whole. We'd never buy a half rotten apple, but put yourself between people and you can convince one half that you are ripe. The way elections go, he didn't need to convince even half. As he spins and pivots more come to know his grotesque form, but fresh apples won't be in season for another 3 years. People forgot he was a brand, and the brand won.

IndiraLightfoot · September 30, 2017

@Injurai: Yup! Screaming spoiled brat on top, and then a huge concealed monster underneath in murky depths.

Volourn · September 30, 2017

The sad thing is despite all Trump's failings (and there is lots) he was still a superior candidate than Clinton. And, no, Kalifornians' opinion to the contrary don't count.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Volourn

Malcador · September 30, 2017

And now he's on a Puerto Rican mayor for some reason.

Ben No.3 · September 30, 2017

So on a scale from Trump to Darwin, how true is this?

Chilloutman · October 1, 2017

well kinda like this:

Gromnir · October 1, 2017

https://www.facebook.com/USAFA.Official/videos/10155254479673853/

video speaks for itself, though we suspect some folks will object to the message.

HA! Good Fun!

Namutree · October 1, 2017

I hate that guy's voice.

That said, his notion that the correct response to a bad idea is a better idea, is spot on.

Orogun01 · October 1, 2017

I don't object to the message I just think it childish to hold a rally because someone said ****. This is the military, I would expect they would have thicker skin.

HoonDing · October 1, 2017

WOW, Spain is the new Turkey!

injurai · October 1, 2017

It's was held because the military serves the people and being volunteer based their biggest selling point is moving people up economically and offering them a career out of serving the nation. They have a responsibility to uphold fair standards and be transparent. Given our current social times, now is not the time to send mixed messaging with non-transparent internal procedures. They want to make a strong clear statement and move on. I don't understand what is childish about anything there, one of the more sensible and adult stands I've seen taken for a while.

Gfted1 · October 1, 2017

Back when I was in the Navy, females were forbidden from serving aboard combat vessels. So ronely.

Malcador · October 1, 2017

Is at an academy, so seems ok to have an assembly to yell at everyone. Good optics as well.

Orogun01 · October 1, 2017

I just find it quaint that the people going to drop bombs on middle easterners to serve the Zionists oligarchs, care about political correctness. But then again societies tend to be very hypocritical about their values; bread and circuses and all that.

injurai · October 1, 2017

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/catalonia-independence-referendum-vote-protests-barcelona-madrid-police-guardia-civil-a7976556.html

BruceVC · October 1, 2017

Its okay Gfted1, I can completely understand you finding comfort temporarily in the arms of other crewmen....Im sure everyone did it back then. No judgement from my side :teehee:

Volourn · October 1, 2017

So.. Spain is becoming a Nazi state.

Zoraptor · October 1, 2017

Fascist state, maybe. After all, the logo of the Guarda Civil has literal fasces, and (iirc) somewhat bizarrely it was changed to that after Generalissimo Fransisco Franco had died.

Hard to think of a dumber response from Madrid, they managed to turn a referendum that would have had the double negative of a low turn out and (at best) tepid support for secession- and which could thus be easily ignored- into a matter of pride where a low turn out can be blamed on repression and voting against Madrid is a matter of pride and resistance. And it's an issue that will be repeatedly revisited now and has exposed the still festering wounds of the Civil War. Utterly moronic.

It's not like a referendum would have put the issue fully to bed, but continually seeking to reiterate the issue after a vote has not been great electorally, per the SNP and the Bloc.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Zoraptor

HoonDing · October 1, 2017

Mama Merkel will be ordering the bombing of ~~Guernica~~ Girona next week

Agiel · October 1, 2017

At the minimum you must not have spoken with any actual combat veterans, or read many soldiers' memoirs, or seen many war movies.

Unlike other professions where trust in the person beside you and the ability to act cohesively and harmoniously are big pluses, in the military profession they become functional requirements for _survival_.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Agiel

Orogun01 · October 1, 2017

I also know that they don't become emotionally invested in someone that might not be alive next week. Psychopathy is a big thing among troops; part of the job even, you have to be able to clear a room and step over the corpses without lingering. Also, where the **** do you get off quoting war movies as a reliable source?

Malcador · October 1, 2017

Well it is funny of sorts but all organizations want to avoid overt discord.

Orogun01 · October 1, 2017

I am aware of the why, is the how that bothers me. Rallies, no matter where they're held are indicative of the divide between workers and management. You'd think they wouldn't want to announce or make a big deal of it, this all reeks of preemptive apologizing. Which as any organization that has dealt with SJW culture will tell you, is pointless.

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