How are Chanters being made more fun to play?

[PugPug]

The trouble is that on normal difficulty, battles are often over before invocations can be used, making it a passive class. Higher level chants take longer to accumulate, exacerbating this. Something added to POE1 to mitigate this was Brisk Recitation, a free passive that makes phrases complete more quickly.

 

A sequel affords an opportunity for a better remedy. Have they said what it might be?

[algroth]

That was not my experience at all. I had plenty of time to use them and thought it was overall a damn fine 'rework' for the bard class.

[Boeroer]

Chanters will now start with some phrases so invocations can be used earlier in the encounter. This thing comes from Tyranny where people seem to like it. There is also a feat where you can carry unused phrases over to the next encounter, but I don't know if this will be in Deadfire as well or not.

 

Also the invocations will not be ordered like before: tier 1 invocations needed 3 phrases, tier 2 inv. needed 4 phrases and so on. Instead, they will be mixed when it comes to phrase cost. So it might be that some tier 1 invoc. need 3 phrases while other tier 1 inv. need 5 - and same with higher tier invocations.

Maybe that this will also be true with the phrases themselves, can't remember.

 

This was said in a Q&A live stream as well as someehere else (can't remember, maybe Something Awful or Twitter). Hope I summed it up correctly.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Boeroer

[Wormerine]

Good to know. While I did like the chanter class a lot I also rarely used their spells. Combat would often be over or would be in "clean up" stage before I would get to 3rd phrase. 

[PangaeaACDC]

Good to know. While I did like the chanter class a lot I also rarely used their spells. Combat would often be over or would be in "clean up" stage before I would get to 3rd phrase. 

 

I had the same experience, which is probably one reason why I didn't like them all that much.

[PugPug]

Chanters will now start with some phrases so invocations can be used earlier in the encounter. This thing comes from Tyranny where people seem to like it. There is also a feat where you can carry unused phrases over to the next encounter, but I don't know if this will be in Deadfire as well or not.

 

Also the invocations will not be ordered like before: tier 1 invocations needed 3 phrases, tier 2 inv. needed 4 phrases and so on. Instead, they will be mixed when it comes to phrase cost. So it might be that some tier 1 invoc. need 3 phrases while other tier 1 inv. need 5 - and same with higher tier invocations.

Maybe that this will also be true with the phrases themselves, can't remember.

 

This was said in a Q&A live stream as well as someehere else (can't remember, maybe Something Awful or Twitter). Hope I summed it up correctly.

 

 

Any changes to phrases themselves? It seems odd how using higher-level phrases penalizes you invocation-wise because they take longer. Maybe it's supposed to be some kind of balancing act, and I don't know what can be done about it while keeping low-level phrases relevant, but it's odd.

[rjshae]

Chanter festivals must be loads of fun with random skelies, wurms, drakes, swamp spores, and ogres popping for a visit.

[Wormerine]

 

Chanters will now start with some phrases so invocations can be used earlier in the encounter. This thing comes from Tyranny where people seem to like it. There is also a feat where you can carry unused phrases over to the next encounter, but I don't know if this will be in Deadfire as well or not.

 

Also the invocations will not be ordered like before: tier 1 invocations needed 3 phrases, tier 2 inv. needed 4 phrases and so on. Instead, they will be mixed when it comes to phrase cost. So it might be that some tier 1 invoc. need 3 phrases while other tier 1 inv. need 5 - and same with higher tier invocations.

Maybe that this will also be true with the phrases themselves, can't remember.

 

This was said in a Q&A live stream as well as someehere else (can't remember, maybe Something Awful or Twitter). Hope I summed it up correctly.

 

 

 

Any changes to phrases themselves? It seems odd how using higher-level phrases penalizes you invocation-wise because they take longer. Maybe it's supposed to be some kind of balancing act, and I don't know what can be done about it while keeping low-level phrases relevant, but it's odd.

Yeah, I thought it was very much a balancing act. I would have multiple songs set up, some consisting of low level songs to rank up phrases quickly. That said I rarely used them. It seemed much more effective to leave higher level ones and keep chanter as a "passive" hero.

[MortyTheGobbo]

I think that phrases no longer have levels. You just pick them out of a common pool, and they all have the same chanting time. Not sure where it was said, though.

[Boeroer]

Since I only played on PotD where fights take longer I liked chanters a lot. But it's true that the builds that focus on phrases are better/more fun than those who want to utilize the invocations.

 

Higher tier phrases needing more time to complete was a bad design decision. They did have mixed durations throughout the tiers.

[Boeroer]

Since I only played on PotD where fights take longer I liked chanters a lot. But it's true that the builds that focus on phrases are better/more fun than those who want to utilize the invocations.

 

Higher tier phrases needing more time to complete was a bad design decision. They should have had mixed durations throughout the tiers.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Chanters will start with some phrases chanter to allow quicker initial use of invocations, in addition to shorter and unified(in terms of time)phrases IIRC. I think a sort of "invocation mastery" that allows a reduced cast for a specific invocation would be a method to get Chanters using more of their active abilities, or perhaps a warrior chanter subclass that gains phrases with kills.

[Hound]

I would like to see Chanters able to learn new stories/phrases in a manner similar to wizards learning new spells. It would be nice to just pick up a book from the environment and read the lore and then have a Chanter character equip the book and be then a button labeled "Copy story" be available on the bottom of the book's text. 

[rjshae]

Do you suppose a reptilian chanter somewhere is able to summon a party of Kith? Suddenly you find yourself in the middle of a battle and are compelled to fight for a kilted lizard playing a bagpipe...

[blotter]

Do you suppose a reptilian chanter somewhere is able to summon a party of Kith? Suddenly you find yourself in the middle of a battle and are compelled to fight for a kilted lizard playing a bagpipe...

As funny as that would be, Chanters aren't summoning actual living creatures but rather approximating their forms by channeling the energies of spirits and tapping ambient soul fragments. Or I think it's something like that.

 

Something along those lines might make for an interesting premise for a protagonist in a new Pillars game: a Chanter tries to summon the spirit of a dead hero, or one who never actually existed or was a composite figure abstracted from various people, to assist with some battle or task and ends up bringing you into the world. Varied accounts of the hero could allow for the normal range of customization options and an inborn attunement to the events the hero is known for could enable you "relive" similar experiences if they wanted to integrate the unearthly visions angle here as well without resorting to the use of another Watcher for a lead.

[Boeroer]

"They use these stories and legends to stir the memories of the dreaming lost souls and soul fragments that surround them. The spirits respond by creating magical effects, essentially playing their part in the recreation of the legends. In this way, chanters act as directors of supernatural actors playing out momentary plays for the chanter's benefit."

 

That's how they do it.

[firkraag888]

Couldn't agree more with the OP

 

Chanters where the worst class for enjoyment by far

 

I forgave obs because they more then made up for it with the cipher

[Boeroer]

With PoTD difficulty they are also one of the most powerful classes if used correctly:

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/93570-help-i-created-a-monster-6-chanters-vs-potd/

 

For some the low maintenance is boring, for others it's entertaining. Depends on your preferences I guess.

 

However, the implementation of the invocation mechanics was not really thought through. In PoE1 they are better as chant-bots, not as casters. Maybe in PoE2 OBS can deliver both (also with the help of subclasses and so on).

[Sedrefilos]

After a long meeting, Obsidian developers decided to make chanters transform into different things. Evil chanters can transfrom themselves to military vehicles, while good chanters will transfrom into construction and service vehicles.

Kids will have way more fun playing with chanters this way!

 

In all seriousness, I thought the chanter class to be the most interesting take on the classic(?) bard and Kana (my only chanter) was fun to play. Ridiculous summons! Looking forward to extra chanter awsomeness in the sequel!

Edited August 29, 2017 by Sedrefilos

[rjshae]

Chanters should be able to form ensembles and make more rapid invocations using multi-part harmonies. I'm not sure how that could be implemented using game mechanics, but it might make for an interesting encounter.

[firkraag888]

Dragon thrashed being thrown in at the last minute as a high level ability should not be used as an excuse for all the poor form before it.

 

I boerer is referring to this ability with his comment about powerful.