[CLASS BUILD] the fast assassin (dual wielding rogue)

[Blades of Vanatar]

There are a lot of Stillettos that can be end game weapons for a Rogue. Oideracht, Azureth's, Misery's End, Vent Pick and Bleak Fang. All depends on your build.

[Madscientist]

Stilettos are great for rogues. They belong to the ruffian group, so you can use exactly the same things as in the first post (without vulnerable attack and shadow step).

There are many good stilettos and some of them can be found early.

 

Dagger are not so great (low base damage and no DR penetration), but they should work too.

Early in the game you find the march steel dagger (+speed bonus, you have to enchant the rest yourself)

There are some very good daggers late in the game: drawn in spring (superb, wounding) and the unlabored blade (mystic, speed and firebug proc at max level)

At the end of the game with the unlabored blade and the fully enchanted march steel dagger plus the gauntlets of swift action (hard to get because random loot), you will have zero recovery even with vulnerable attack on. Then you can respec and take vulnerable attack and skip frenzy (you get no speed bonus from it and it takes time to activate it, not sure if a minor mig and con bonus are worth it)

 

The unlabored blade is a soulbound weapon, so it can be used with any weapon focus and the stiletto user can have it too (mystic+speed+proc does sound good). I hope there are enough enemies left when you get it so you can do damage to upgrade it.

[Boeroer]

Daggers have the same base damage as stilettos.

 

Instead of 3 DR bypass they have +5 accuracy which is good.

 

Also Drawn in Spring is the best melee dps weapon and pretty awesome for a rogue. The damage mods or rogues work very well with the wounding "lash" and the wounding itself is great against high DR targets - better than mere dr bypass.

 

I think March Steel + Drawn in Spring is a pretty good combo if you want to use dagger exclusively. Immunities aside it's also one of the best dps option for a rogue (looking at auto-attacks, excluding Backstab and Finishing Blow). Sword of Daenysis + Drawn in Spring would be a biut better I guess, but still...

But in the end it doesn't matter much if you pick stilettos or daggers. The differences are marginal. Ther are more unique stilettos earlier so maybe that's more interesting. 

[Madscientist]

One more question:

All lashes are 25% of the damage including all damage modifiers and before it is reduced by DR ?

The elemental talents raise the lash from 25% to 30%. Elemental lashes do not profit from mig or int directly, it just that more mig increases the number where the 25% is taken from.

Wounding has 25% of the original value as base damage, but it is influenced by mig and int directly. So a char with high mig will cause more than 25% of the original damage with wounding.

 

What about draining?

is the healing you get influenced by anything or is it flat 20% of damage (with or without lashes/wounding/other effects, before or after DR)?

[LitleBold]

And yes LitleBold, he meant Two Weapon Style, not Two Handed Style. 

 

Hi dont see any "two weapon style" in panel, where i can find it please ?

[Boeroer]

One more question:

All lashes are 25% of the damage including all damage modifiers and before it is reduced by DR ?

The elemental talents raise the lash from 25% to 30%. Elemental lashes do not profit from mig or int directly, it just that more mig increases the number where the 25% is taken from.

Wounding has 25% of the original value as base damage, but it is influenced by mig and int directly. So a char with high mig will cause more than 25% of the original damage with wounding.

 

What about draining?

is the healing you get influenced by anything or is it flat 20% of damage (with or without lashes/wounding/other effects, before or after DR)?

 

Everything you assumed is correct.

 

Draining is not influenced by anything - just the damage you did (which is of course influenced by dmg mods). So a rogue or barb get a lot out of it.

[Boeroer]

 

And yes LitleBold, he meant Two Weapon Style, not Two Handed Style. 

 

Hi dont see any "two weapon style" in panel, where i can find it please ?

 

What panel? At level up or in the Attack Speed Calculator?

[LitleBold]

when i level up yes I cant see two weapons style

[LitleBold]

there's just one hand or two hand style, in the second panel of talents when you level up

[Boeroer]

[Boeroer]

It should be accessible from lvl 2 on.

[LitleBold]

Ok ! i saw it on my cypher lvl up, perhaps i already take it with my rogue (he's lvl

[Boeroer]

Dude...   

[Elric Galad]

I was thinking about optimal weapons for rogue DPS, and I suddenly became interested in Spelltongue.

 

The best damage mod for weapon is said to be Wounding. So basically Drawn in Spring is the best 1Hander.

Then, leaving Lash apart (as any weapon might be applied a lash), the second best is known to be +20% Speed.

 

Spelltongue does not have +20% Speed, but gives +15% Speed on hit. But these +15% appl to both hands.

So if you're dual wielding with Drawn in Spring and another weapon, both get +15%.

Spelltongue contribution while dual wielding is more or less equivalent to +30% speed for a single weapon.

 

Stacking Spelltongue, Gauntlets of swift action and Durgan Steel, you'll be permanently at 0 Recovery for both hands (assuming dual wield style compensate for vulnerable attack, and no armor outside of durganized robe)

 

Furthermore Spelltongue is a Noble weapon as Drawn in Spring, brings some utility to the table (like extending Escape bonus Def or buffs from teammates), and Rogue are very good with Fast weapons due to their damages bonus.

 

So what would you think of Spelltongue & Drawn in Spring as Rogue's ultimate DPS weapon combination (leaving apart double Drawn in Spring from Helwax Mold) ? 

Edited February 6, 2018 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

It's good. You would land exactly at 0 recovery. Spelltongue's Speed bonus doesn't stack with other speed bonuses like Frenzy, DAoM and so on - but since rogues don't have such speed boosts anyways (except potions & drugs) it doesn't matter.

[Torm51]

It's good. You would land exactly at 0 recovery. Spelltongue's Speed bonus doesn't stack with other speed bonuses like Frenzy, DAoM and so on - but since rogues don't have such speed boosts anyways (except potions & drugs) it doesn't matter.

I’d love a stiletto rogue for a play through but the big question is survival. How do you keep him/her alive without taking a pounding since there is no aggro mechanic. This has always been my issue. Especially in the early game. Raedrics Paladins and phantoms will make mince meat out of a level 4 Duel Wield Rogue (difficulty path of the Damned). CC? Constant slickens and pray you finish the bad guys off before vancian casters are we out of spells?

 

Maybe just give the rogue ranged weapons in the early game?

Edited February 6, 2018 by Torm51

[Elric Galad]

Against ghost you might just have your rogue use fan of flames scrolls, he is one of the better class at it.

You might even go Sword & Board & Armor, he will still do Okay damages.

As he is one of the rare class that can make good use of fast weapon, you can even give him a hatchet.

+25 Def from Escape for 10s does not hurt either. His def would be more than warrior league for a while.

 

Anyway as you said, ranged rogue is top tier early game. Ranger does not already have all his goodies at this point, so...

Edited February 10, 2018 by Elric Galad

[Boeroer]

Backstab is also very good in the early game - but not with stiletto but pike or quarterstaff.

 

I would try Azureith's Stiletto + Oidreacht and hope that the draining helps with surviving and that Jolting Touch helps with the Paladins (plate is weak against shock damage). But you'd have to rush to Maerwald before going to Raedric... hmm...

 

Survival for a dw rogue is tricky in the early game. Veteran's Recovery could help but there will still be health issues. And maybe you don't want to use it at all on a stiletto guy (doesn't fit?).

 

I guess a bigger front line (3 chars) + CC + staying behind and attack when it's save will do the trick most of the time.

 

Also Paladins: they have plate and thus 12 DR. With Vulnerable Attack your stilettos will have 8 bypass which makes a huge difference. So I would try to take Vulnerable Attack asap and combine it with Crippling + Blinding Strike.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

Anyway, I think that Rogue has to go the quickswitch firearms route to reach his maximum potential.

The triple quickswitch only cost 1 racial and 2-3 talents and provide a damage spike that only a Paladin is able to mimic.

 

Other classes have to choose between Damage spike and regular DPS. Rogue can do both. This and "Deathblows + scrolls" might be the best reasons to use this class (unfortunately considered as the weakest).

 

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The fast assassin with some shotguns

 

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class: rogue

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race: Island Aumau

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background: deadfire

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stats:

mig: 13

con: 10

dex: 19

per: 16

int: 10

res: 10

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skills: High mech if needed, 4 survivral, even number of lore points for scrolls, a bit of stealth (consider some items to get all the required points ! Feel Stroke helps for example) 

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abilities and talents:

lv1: blinding strike

lv2: ruffian weapon focus

lv3: escape (reckless assault cost 1 ability + 1 talent and its ACC does not even stack with Devotion for the Faithfull that I always cast past a certain level ^^)

lv4: two weapon style

lv5: dirty fighting

lv6: superior deflection

lv7: riposte (not riposte dedicated build, but given escape, various blinding effects, party support and the potential of double saber full attack, I think Riposte worthes it)

lv8: quick switch

lv9: withering strike

lv 10: vicious fighting

lv11: deathblows

lv12: arms bearer

lv13: sap

lv14: sprit of decay

lv15: persistant distraction (I love this +6 Acc that also supports party attack against single target)

lv16: runner's wounding shot (brutal with a gun rogue, backup sneak attack enabler)

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items:

melee weapons: bittercut+purgatory (I prefer this one over resolution). One can always swap to guns against pierce damage immunity. Durgan steel refined + corrosive lash + kraken eyes

the guns : fellstroke, dulcanale, silver flash (corrosive lash + exceptional when needed)

 

boots: boots of speed

 

armor: Elryn's Jacket

 

hand: gloves of swift action. Recovery should be around 3-4%. Would be 0 without padded armor

 

The rest is not essential, but a bit of spellbind items and scrolls never hurt 

 

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background: don't know. High mech, 4 survival, even number of lore points for scrolls, a bit of stealth (consider some items to get all the required points ! Feel Stroke helps) 

Edited February 7, 2018 by Elric Galad

[Torm51]

Backstab is also very good in the early game - but not with stiletto but pike or quarterstaff.

 

I would try Azureith's Stiletto + Oidreacht and hope that the draining helps with surviving and that Jolting Touch helps with the Paladins (plate is weak against shock damage). But you'd have to rush to Maerwald before going to Raedric... hmm...

 

Survival for a dw rogue is tricky in the early game. Veteran's Recovery could help but there will still be health issues. And maybe you don't want to use it at all on a stiletto guy (doesn't fit?).

 

I guess a bigger front line (3 chars) + CC + staying behind and attack when it's save will do the trick most of the time.

 

Also Paladins: they have plate and thus 12 DR. With Vulnerable Attack your stilettos will have 8 bypass which makes a huge difference. So I would try to take Vulnerable Attack asap and combine it with Crippling + Blinding Strike.

That’s a lot of support to make one guy work. You think the damage is that good to be worth it? If he could go from Paladin to Paladin and gib then in a few hits it might be but I don’t think he can either way.

 

 

Maybe late be an actual assasisn. Backstab dragons with good pistols? He could have 3 to 4 backstabs in a fight with the right talents and equipment.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Torm51

[Boeroer]

Backstab's better with a melee two hander - because you can command the attack out of stealth and it doesn't matter if you unstealth on the way. With ranged weapons you will have to sneak up to 2 meters and then command the attack. If you unstealth on the way to that 2 meter distane you won't get Backstabs.

 

Also, with a melee weapon you'll allways get two successive auto-attack Backstabs (two successive auto attacks get the +150% bonus - the first one even Sneak Attack Bonus. If you use a special attack like Blinding Strike then only that attack gets the bonus, the second one NOT). With a gun this is not possible because you'd die while reloading and switching doesn't work with Backstab (second attack after switching doesn't get the bonus).

Exception: Twin Sting! Shoot two times without reloading should give you two shots with backstab bonus. Never tested though!

 

Weapons that are cool with Backstab:

 

- Tall Grass (because of reach): you can just wait in stealth (need 6 to 8 stealth or so) until the enemy connects with your front line and then poke them with two backstabs from reach, being safe. Did such a rogue, was fun. Also the prone proc is fun of course.

- Tidefall: sneak up and deal Backstab + Sneak Attack damage for a massive amount of raw wounding damage and also draining. A rogue with Tidefall, high MIG, low INT and high CON actually becomes quite sturdy (for a rogue with no other healing sources). Did such a rogue as "caster killer", was fun.

- Firebrand: does not work from stealth since the summoning breaks it, but if you summon it and then go invisible (Cape, Shadowing Beyond etc.) then this is totally bananas. Especially if your party members managed to unlock Deathblows on the target for you. Damage numbers above 150 no problem... Only tested this but didn't really play for long (need Firebrand on Barbarian, Bleak Walker or Cipher instead ).

 

For backstabbing dragons surely Tidefall would be best.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Boeroer

[Torm51]

Backstab's better with a melee two hander - because you can command the attack out of stealth and it doesn't matter if you unstealth on the way. With ranged weapons you will have to sneak up to 2 meters and then command the attack. If you unstealth on the way to that 2 meter distane you won't get Backstabs.

 

Also, with a melee weapon you'll allways get two successive auto-attack Backstabs (two successive auto attacks get the +150% bonus - the first one even Sneak Attack Bonus. If you use a special attack like Blinding Strike then only that attack gets the bonus, the second one NOT). With a gun this is not possible because you'd die while reloading and switching doesn't work with Backstab (second attack after switching doesn't get the bonus).

Exception: Twin Sting! Shoot two times without reloading should give you two shots with backstab bonus. Never tested though!

 

Weapons that are cool with Backstab:

 

- Tall Grass (because of reach): you can just wait in stealth (need 6 to 8 stealth or so) until the enemy connects with your front line and then poke them with two backstabs from reach, being safe. Did such a rogue, was fun. Also the prone proc is fun of course.

- Tidefall: sneak up and deal Backstab + Sneak Attack damage for a massive amount of raw wounding damage and also draining. A rogue with Tidefall, high MIG, low INT and high CON actually becomes quite sturdy (for a rogue with no other healing sources). Did such a rogue as "caster killer", was fun.

- Firebrand: does not work from stealth since the summoning breaks it, but if you summon it and then go invisible (Cape, Shadowing Beyond etc.) then this is totally bananas. Especially if your party members managed to unlock Deathblows on the target for you. Damage numbers above 150 no problem... Only tested this but didn't really play for long (need Firebrand on Barbarian, Bleak Walker or Cipher instead ).

 

For backstabbing dragons surely Tidefall would be best.

Got it!  Thanks I always have one single target hard hitter so maybe for my last run I will replace the Fighter for a rogue to try it out.

[Phenomenum]

 

It's good. You would land exactly at 0 recovery. Spelltongue's Speed bonus doesn't stack with other speed bonuses like Frenzy, DAoM and so on - but since rogues don't have such speed boosts anyways (except potions & drugs) it doesn't matter.

I’d love a stiletto rogue for a play through but the big question is survival. How do you keep him/her alive without taking a pounding since there is no aggro mechanic. This has always been my issue. Especially in the early game. Raedrics Paladins and phantoms will make mince meat out of a level 4 Duel Wield Rogue (difficulty path of the Damned). CC? Constant slickens and pray you finish the bad guys off before vancian casters are we out of spells?

 

Maybe just give the rogue ranged weapons in the early game?

 

AI have a very simple aggro mechanic.

AI tend to attack your personages accounting very few priorities:

1st priority: first personage within sight

2nd priority: personages with low defences

3rd priority: personages with low endurance (maybe even rush on certain member of your team, which not far from being unconscious).

 

So you could use it: sneak with you rogue and other squishies and show em only your tanks (fighter, pal, etc.) - enemies wil spurt all their abilities and spells on them, then your second line (wizards, priest, rogue) will act. In case of Raedrick i always sent Eder to talk with Lord, and other party members  is "hold the line".

 

Simple ans brilliant strategy.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Phenomenum

[Porcelyn]

Thank you. I am going to play my own rogue at some point but I am going to use this on robot girl. When I saw she came with a spear I was like, why?? lol

[Boeroer]

Why not? A stunning/vicious Cladhaliath is a great weapon for her.

 

The "aggro mechanic" is different for certain enemies by the way. For example barbarians' first priority is low deflection while other enemies will have casters as no. 1 priority and will even disengage from tanks or use escape etc. to reach them. Others priority is low DR or low endurance (if dropped from fighting or generally low). Also distance plays a role.

That's why glass cannon rogues with low DR, low deflection and low CON get attacked so often. Same with glass cannon wizards. They fulfill nearly every criteria for any enemy to get targeted.

If you put a plate armor on a rogue you can see that it helps with surviving but also makes some attackers not targeting him.

 

MaxQuest had a very informative thread on that with detailed criteria. Can't find it atm though.

 

But basically the tactic that Phenomenum describes works well. Archers, ranged casters however will immediately switch to your squishies once they unstealth. Crowd Control (like a Whisper of Treason) is important then. Since charm is a hefty defense debuff as well most of the time enemies attack the charmed one.