Min Max Stats

[bijohammax]

Hey guys,

 

I was trying to find an answer for this but everything that I find (quickly) is from 2015 and earlier versions of the game. When I created my character, I did it based on some guide that recommended to min/max stats. 

 

Is this still a good idea or did Obsidian change the viability of this?

[Livegood118]

Unless you've got meta-knowledge of the game to compensate for the deficiencies that min-maxed stats bring I wouldn't recommend doing it, at least for a beginner.

 

It also depends on the class in question – if you're a ranged character you can probably get away with min-maxing a bit more than a melee character.

 

The game's AI will target enemies based on a range of factors, but in generally they're more likely to go for characters that they know the can kill quickly. 

 

You can always stats at an inn for your PC, and for hired non-story companions.

[bijohammax]

Oh, I didn't know you could change the PC stats. I thought only spells and talents. I'll need to take a look again.

[MortyTheGobbo]

You can change your PCs' stats, yeah. It's only spells and talents for your NPC companions.

 

And I also don't recommend min-maxing your stats if you don't know the game inside and out yet. One attribute (that you feel you won't need much) at 8 is fine, though.

Edited May 5, 2017 by MortyTheGobbo

[scythesong]

It's a much nicer deal for solo because you only have 1 character and a ton of resources. The watcher even has a per rest ability that gives you +2 to all stats, useful for beating challenges (non-combat stat-dependent mini-games). It also depends on what you're trying to accomplish, like if you're mostly only interested in killing stuff then feel free to minmax everything.

 

Ultimately you'll want to find some balance between (as close to) maxed out core stats, decent secondary stats and flavor, if you want a well-rounded playthough. I know some people like it when specific characters beat specific challenges.

[MountainTiger]

In the big picture, your base attributes aren't all that important: while they will be your main source of bonuses and maluses for the first few hours of the game, you quickly get to a point where talents/abilities, resting bonuses, gear, and consumables are much bigger factors than base attributes. This is also a big part of why complaints about the story NPCs are overblown: while their stat arrays aren't ideal for most builds, stat arrays are a small part of most builds anyway.

 

With that said, I don't think min-maxing is generally stronger than balanced arrays, for two reasons:

 

1. Most stats have diminishing returns. Consider accuracy: each point effectively switches 1 attack in 100 from the worst available outcome to the best (e.g. with accuracy equal to defense, you miss on 15% of attacks, graze on 35%, and hit on 50%; with accuracy 1 higher, you miss on 14%, graze on 35%, hit on 50%, and crit on 1%, effectively swapping 1% to miss with 1% to crit). But the difference between going from accuracy = defense to accuracy = defense + 1 is much bigger than going from accuracy = defense + 50 to accuracy = defense + 51, since miss to crit is a much bigger change than hit to crit.

 

2. Balanced defenses are usually better than unbalanced. Defenses actually have increasing returns, for the same reason that accuracy has decreasing returns: every point added to a defense effectively removes a 1% chance of the most dangerous outcome and replaces it with a 1% chance of the least. But many encounters include enemies that target multiple defenses, and even for those that focus on one defense you're stuck with your base defenses unless you want to respec for that particular encounter. Some role-based emphasis makes sense (e.g. melee characters usually want deflection and fortitude more than reflex and will), and there are particular builds that try to stack one defense (like Boeroer's Bilestomper wizard), but usually you want to be prepared for attacks against all four.

 

Attribute allocation can make a difference, but I wouldn't worry too much about trying to find the optimal choices.

[Piero]

If you know the direction of your build and don't care about attribute checks for interactions, yes, it makes your build more effective in combat, but if you are interested in attribute check for interactions, and more versatility in combat (specially if you are new, and want to experiment) maybe you should avoid going too low
About attribute checks in interactions:

 

Resolve have a lot of checks
followed by Intellect, perception and might
then dexterity and constitution

 

[Torin]

Imho, min max makes is quite important. You can not max everything, so you have to make choices which stat should be maxed, which can be dumped and which is ok with medium points.

 

Example my monk:

max MIG: Damage and healing - Maybe the best stat for a a tank with dps.

medium CON: Nice to have high but medium is ok if points are needed for other stats.

min:DEX because with torments reach she mostly attacks "full rounds"

max PER -> max ACC. Quite important

INT: Do you uses spells/Abilities/Scrolls/potions etc which need a long duration (then max INT)? or not (dump it!)

RES: Not that essential but have an eye on concentration (medium RES is ok)

[Boeroer]

Dumping INT on a monk who uses Force of Anguish and Torment's Reach is not smart (pun intended).

[oaktownbrown]

IMO whether or not you should min-max stats depends on why you are min-maxing stats.

 

I would only do it if I enjoyed trying out different builds and making the most X build I could. I use X there bc what is the best build for a class (or even a good build) is going to vary from person to person, playstyle to playstyle and even what role you want party member Y to have in your party (so from game to game for the same person). IOW you are using the game mainly as a testing ground for your build and not so much playing for the story, exploring the world, playing a role, etc. Some ppl love doing that and I've done it with other games. It can be a lot of fun and, with some games (looking at you NWN OCs), you'll probably have more fun doing that than you will playing the game. It's also fun after you've played the whole game and want to still play it with a different twist.

 

I would not min-max stats, talents, abilities, etc. in order to beat the game unless I were playing POTD solo. That's kinda the point of POTD solo IMO. (Well, that and using lots of cheese without the guilt you'd have using so much of it in a party run.) You can if you like that but then I don't understand why you'd use someone else guide except to get good ideas for your own build that does what you want it to do, not what the person who wrote the guide wants that class to do.

 

You have a whole party and with 3.0 you can build the rest of the party pretty much how you want anyway. If you don't like the way you've built them or you get tired playing them that way (e.g., a tank instead of a multi-target damage dealer, CC pro or support character), you can pay a bit of gold and build them again from level 1. If you have a certain playstyle or character type in mind (e.g., a glass cannon wizard), read up on build guides to see what they do and, more importantly, why they do certain things. Then build your own character, taking talents, etc. that sound fun to you. If you don't like the way it plays, you can re-level it in an inn for some gold. Or, if it's early enough, you can start again.

 

As others have said, most build guides don't consider dialogs or CYOAs, which you may want to do bc IMO they add a lot, especially the CYOAs. I think they're fun and help the player feel more like they are actually role playing instead of just playing a combat game.

Edited May 7, 2017 by oaktownbrown

[Belfaldurnik]

Example my monk:

max MIG: Damage and healing - Maybe the best stat for a a tank with dps.

medium CON: Nice to have high but medium is ok if points are needed for other stats.

min:DEX because with torments reach she mostly attacks "full rounds"

max PER -> max ACC. Quite important

INT: Do you uses spells/Abilities/Scrolls/potions etc which need a long duration (then max INT)? or not (dump it!)

RES: Not that essential but have an eye on concentration (medium RES is ok)

 

I disagree with "min DEX". Fast monks can be turned into highly dangerous interrupters. I also disagree with "max PER" being important. Monk's base Accuracy is "very high" already.

[Ensign]

Well, as a starting point, the most generic character possible would have 13 in every stat - and isn't going to play all that differently than a fully min/maxed build.  In fact, it's likely vanilla man will provide a smoother play-through for a new player than min-max man.

 

A big reason for this is that the benefits of maxing stats are pretty modest (and tend to diminish as you progress through the game and bolster stats through spells and gear), while the weaknesses of minimizing stats are actually pretty severe (but also tend to diminish as you progress through the game).  For instance, a pretty popular modification in guides is to drop 10 points from constitution (down to 3) to max out might and perception at 18.  This does make for a higher damage character - min-max man does ~25% more damage with attacks than vanilla man!  However, vanilla man will have *77*% more health than min-maxed man.

 

This has consequences beyond the simple 3x difference between the two characters.  Min-max man is going to draw aggro like crazy, and if he does pull aggro he's going to drop very, very quickly.  That means that to take advantage of min-max man, you have to also employ 'min-max tactics'.  If you're a veteran of the game that knows the encounters and appropriate tactics well, you can play appropriately (attack with min-max man from stealth at max range after the front-line is engaged) and use min-max man to really maximize your performance.  If you don't know the encounters so well and sometimes get caught off guard?  Then you're going to be feeling the 'min' part of min-max a whole lot more.

 

I would strongly recommend any first time player to build a rounded character - all stats at or above 10, recommended and important stats pushed up to 15-18.  This actually does 'max' your ability to deal with new combat situations.  A well rounded character is going to fit nicely into a variety of party compositions and work well with a variety of strategies and tactics as you experiment and work your way through the game.  Think about min-maxing a main character after playing through the game a few times, when you have specific objectives, party compositions, and strategies in mind to min-max around.

[Boeroer]

True